BoxaRox wrote:I might also suggest that simple democracy might be a good way to mediate. If there are more people pissed off about the sound (and who are willing to 'vote' by attending the "meeting") than are attending the party, it's too loud. One tired asshole trying to shut down a party with 100 people, however, probably ought to find somewhere else to sleep.
Isotopia wrote:For well over five years now, sound complaints have been one of the biggest pains in the ass that the Rangers have had to deal with. Seriously in probably 90% of the cases where a complaint ha been made the peron(s) complaining made absolutely NO EFFORT to engage the offending camp. None.
Kinetic IV wrote:Enforcement is going to fall on us. The Rangers won't do a damn thing...so it's up to us to sort this out. BRC is an experiment in building a temporary community and that includes communication so if you run with that thought this is truly our problem. The only time we should be pulling in the Rangers is as an absolute last resort....
Ron wrote:Ron, who's guessing the Rangers would be swamped with qualified volunteers to be "Sound Cops," if the Org would get as serious about sound pollution as they are about MOOP.
Ting wrote:You cats could at least have had some talent when playing that early in the morning/late at night. The mixing coming from that camp was a travesty.
Dragonfly Jafe wrote:for those wishing to discuss possible methods to deal with loud camps (after attempts at mediation have failed), please goto this thread;
Sassy wrote:Ranger, check the Ranger Rule Book -- you're not allowed to patrol your own camp.
Sassy wrote:Hmmm, Ranger, you're starting to sound like Florence Nightingale here. You sound AWFULLY willing to help now, but why didn't you stand up for the good name of the Rangers when we were actually GOING THROUGH THIS on the playa?
spectabillis wrote:Badger wrote:Fuck off you pharisaic prick.It is very clear that you have not read this thread.
really unbalanced reply, defiantely over.
Isotopia wrote:It amazes me still how many people are unwilling or unable to walk over to a camp, introduce themselves, state their complaint and engage the other person(s) on how to remedy the situation so that each fells there's been a win-win result. There's no magic to doing this.
ibdave wrote:I would think it all has to do with the fact that the general public is told time afer time not to take the law in it's own hands. Yea yea I know it's not the law, but you get my drift... So the "right" thing by that statement , is to seek out the Rangers...
There's also the issue of where the starting line is: if we concede as a community that people who annoy everyone with their sound levels should be kicked out, where does that lead? Can we then use that as precedent to kick out artists who offend us? Entertainers who bore us? Mimes who irritate us? Where does the line get drawn, and how easily can it be moved? And who decides?
isiseyes wrote:ibdave wrote:I would think it all has to do with the fact that the general public is told time afer time not to take the law in it's own hands. Yea yea I know it's not the law, but you get my drift... So the "right" thing by that statement , is to seek out the Rangers...
Taking the law into your own hands is destroying their equipment, not walking over and talking to them. Communicating with your neighbours is the first thing you should be doing whether the problem is sound issues or just being annoyed by the whistling daisy sculpture on their front lawn.
Kinetic IV wrote:It's not about taking the "law" into your own hands. These are rules, not laws. Leave the law enforcement up to Sheriff Skinner's bunch and the BLM types.
6: Bullhorn justice will be a fact on the playa this coming year.
(That was basically a note to self about what we're working with...)
So with that in mind...this is going to get interesting.
One other thing.....with all the voices on this board I'm hopeful we can really make something happen here. The need is there....we have some of the best people you could want to contribute...if we can't come up with something I wonder who can?
ibdave wrote: but you get my drift... So the "right" thing by that statement , is to seek out the Rangers...
To get it out of the way, here's how I would summarize the situation: Outpost23 was placed as a dance camp, on the same street as several other camps featuring loud music including the Lingerie Lounge, which spent at least $150,000 on its sound system and bar setup. On paper it looked like a good match. The main two problems were that O23 ended up with a bigger amp, and their playing hours were different from everyone else on the block.
There are two sides to this problem... one side felt that they had the right to have their party as loud and late as they'd like because it's Burning Man and there are no rules, and the other side felt that the camp should stop playing and/or turn the music down while they were trying to sleep.
Both sides have valid arguments
and it is a shame that more people on both sides didn't try to come together earlier in the week and solve the problem before it came to a head.
When I returned to the camp around 4 am monday morning to make sure I was there for the scheduled party in case anyone on the block wanted to speak to a ranger (as I did for four night straight without anyone but Jill and one other guy coming over to talk to me, btw), the camp was dark and quiet. I asked what happened, and was told by the DJ that he was spinning and was grabbed by a crazed-looking guy in his PJs who was desperate for sleep. He said he felt bad for the guy, and wound things down several hours before the planned party time. I can't speak for what happened before I got there, but I do know for certain that the planned party did not happen that morning as a result of this interaction.
Later on, a woman came over and said that her husband was very upset, apologized for his behaviour the night before, and asked me if the camp planned to play every night at the same time. I explained that the camp's plan was to play each night from 4 am to 7 am, and we were currently working out compromises on sound levels with the other neighbours on the block. She looked sad and said they'd have to move their tent if that was our plan... I very politely said that might be a good idea to move their tent if they were having trouble sleeping with music going on, and offered to help them move things if they needed it.
That was the last any of us heard from either you or your wife, Player. Until now, in this thread.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but some people do think it's kind of hostile to grab a DJ's shirt collar and demand that they stop playing the music they traveled hundreds of miles to play. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, like so many things are.
Just to set the record straight on that one: no one lied. Outpost23 had a 300 watt amp when the application was filled out and when they were gearing up for the playa... but it broke down on the way, and the only one that could be borrowed was bigger.
<snip> As for your discussion not "working well"... the DJ turned off his music when you asked him to, right? So how is that not working out for you?
<snip> But I honestly think we'd all be better served as a community if the issue dropped and we moved forward to find a solution to the problem for future burns.
I don't know about you, but I'd much rather focus my energy on making next year better than sit here arguing over last year. Who's with me?
In the case of Outpost23, the entire camp thought it was only one woman who was upset about the noise levels and thus made the decision to keep it going.
Keep in mind that I am not defending that decision, just pointing out that the VAST majority of people who were complaining afterward (including those who later in the week came over and damaged equipment while sexually harassing the women in camp) never once came over to the camp and said anything about it... in fact, they came over monday morning and hung out at camp, talking about how great the music was and that they'd be back later in the week to join the party. They didn't even say anything to me, when I spent hours walking over and talking with every camp on that block asking them to talk to me if they had any problems. They all said they would, and none of them did.
As I said before, the O23 situation would have been very different if all of the people who were upset actually came over and said something instead of grumbling to themselves all week.
And iff you're honest with yourselves, you'd agree that if one or two people out of an entire block at BM complained to you about what you were doing and hundreds said they loved it, your first choice would not be to turn things down or off. Again, not condoning what happened, just pointing this out. Having more than one point of view is always a good thing.
I guess we have a shifting of perspectives here Ron. I'm of the mind that *each and every person on the playa is their own Ranger. I relly believ that in all but the most extreme and fucked up situations that there *is* a way to remedy situations such as sound complaints.
Kinetic IV wrote:....
2: There's a need to balance the wants of the many with the needs of the few.
Kinetic IV wrote:....4: We don't need more bloated bureaucracy, gestapo agencies, etc established to police ourselves.
7. We need to avoid confusing writing an email/electronic message with getting things done. :)
My guess would be that the components of that problem, here, are education and enforcement. Most folk don't know about the 300 watt rule, and those do know that it's a joke because it isn't enforced. That's a problem, seems to me.
There really is no need to keep using this forum and this thread as your personal pissing post if your anger is directed squarely at us.
This discussion IMHO is about clearly defining the problem and making sure the multiple points of view on it are taken into consideration. I see it as laying the foundation for a permanent fix.
So this isn't pissing into the wind...we have a shot at doing something for the common good of BRC here and it has a good chance of being put in place by the ORG.
Let's make it happen...unless everyone wants to see a repeat of the mess of Outpost 23 vs. Player and Sassy posts next year with different parties involved. We could do nothing and watch as more people bail from the event.
I am senior staff and I am a member of the city planning commitee. You can be sure that sound is going to be one of my priorities. Now, I would not expect major improvement without support from all
parties involved, i.e., all the participants.
Sassy wrote:Ranger, since Player will not be responding anymore, and I'm nearing the end too, I just wanted to point out that this thread was started by Player for two reasons: 1. To expose you and the rest of Outpost 23 for how you acted this year and 2. To hopefully bring about some sort of change in the future so others don' t have to go through the hell we did.
I find it EXCEEDINGLY amusing that you're acting like such a caring soul now, when you didn't give a RIP out there. So if it's bothering you that you continue to be in the hotseat, then I say that's PERFECTION.
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