Please help me care about the stupid recall

All things outside of Burning Man.

Postby Rob the Wop » Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:44 pm

Alpha wrote:I'm moving to Montana.


(snicker) Hasta la vista, baby. (snicker)
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Postby Rob the Wop » Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:48 pm

And don't worry,

(snicker) I'll be back (snicker)
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Postby aforceforgood » Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:14 pm

Bob wrote:It's simple enough for me. I'm voting no on the recall initiative because I strongly believe that it's provided an undemocratic and basically unconstitutional means for one political party to use mob politics to seize power from another.

AFAIK, most states with recall laws require that specific allegations of malfeasance accompany the recall petition -- here, it can be done with no cause, at whim, and only requires a small segment of the voting population among a few counties to push a recall initiative through.


Since when is it undemocratic for voters to expect performance and have the ability to demand accountability from their elected officials? Or are you saying that once a politician's elected he's untouchable? That he can give away as much of our money to his political cronies and special interests as he wants? That he should be able to dump as much poison into our water as he wants?

Basically unconstitutional? In what way? It's due to California's constitution that the recall was able to happen. I know what you're going to say, that for a recall to happen, it should have been shown that he did something illegal. Well, if you don't know all the things that he's done that deserve for him to be recalled, you need to do some homework.

alice wrote:
PJ wrote:Per these numbers: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s&u=/electionresults/static it was more than 10%. A landslide, really, especially considering the pre-election poll statistics. Ditto the "recall or not" question.


fucking south cali republicans.


Mob politics? Considering that republicans make up only 35% of all registered voters in California, and the recall couldn't have succeeded without a large amount of democrat voters voting for it, that argument is dead.

Your "at whim" comment betrays the fact that you're apparently unaware that just about every governor ever elected in California has had a recall initiative attempted against him, but of the 80+ times it's been tried, only Davis fucked up so badly and screwed everything up so badly that it succeeded.

Bob wrote: The burden this puts on the voter, to be prepared and educated on candidates and issues, for such extraordinary special elections is not consistent with the kind of democracy to which we're accustomed, however flawed the normal electoral means might be.


Given the economy we've seen lately, and the government's indifference to the will of the people that we've seen not so damned lately, maybe it's time for something other than the kind of democracy to which we're accustomed to.
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Postby Angry Butterfly » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:07 pm

This is going to be entertaining. Well, if he really sucks we can always recall HIM.

http://tinyurl.com/q4r1
I took the road less traveled, and now I would like to go back and find the paved one.
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Postby rodent » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:39 pm

Thought you'd all find these amusing...


President Bush is supporting Arnold but a lot of Republicans are
not, because he is actually quite liberal. Karl Rove said if his
father wasn't a Nazi, he wouldn't have any credibility with
conservatives at all.
-- Bill Maher

They're saying Arnold will get 95% of the vote. At least according
to his brother, Jeb Schwarzenegger. -- Craig Kilborn

President Bush has been silent on Shwarzenegger. Of course,
he can't pronounce Schwarzenegger.
-- David Letterman

Here's how bad California looks to the rest of the country. People
in Florida are laughing at us
-- Jay Leno

Well, we're all excited because President Bush has started his
35-day vacation. He's down there in Crawford, Texas and on the
first day of his vacation he went fishing. He didn't find any fish but
he believes they're there and that his intelligence is accurate.
-- David Letterman

The United States is putting together a Constitution now for Iraq.
Why don't we just give them ours? It's served us well for 200
years, and we don't appear to be using it anymore, so what the
hell?
-- Jay Leno

Finally, a candidate who can explain the Bush administration's
positions on civil liberties in the original German.
-- Bill Maher, on Schwarzenegger running for Governor.


rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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http://www.circus.com/~rodent
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Postby nipples » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:43 pm

i'm glad that california may displace minnesota from public scrutiny with regards to why one person is finally elected over another. the other 49 all thought we were living in trailer homes (not that there is anything wrong with that) and wearing spandex (ah, yup, got me there too).

in minnesota (with the wrestler ventura™ ) it was for not kissing butt, but being frank.. at a time when one contender switched affiliations (coleman) and another (humphrey) was conciliatory on issues & our president was backpedaling about what the word "to" or? "of" meant.

i do not watch or read the news & have no idea at all where he stands on issues (or if all) but i hope gary coleman sweeps it. it would be too cool to hear of a congress crumble under the pressing evidentury body of one "what you talking about?!" rebuttal.

yee ha!
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Postby Angry Butterfly » Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:27 am

Gary Blew it, he went on tech tv and defended the record industry lawsuits against downloading music. Wrong Crowd for that! But he was surprisingly sincere, and had some wonderful ideas about trains. As a big fan of public transportaion he almost got me with that. Poor gary needs some therapy or spirituality or something, though. You can hear it in his voice, and see it in his eyes that he is bitter and has some stuff he needs to work on, I'd like to take him to a rave or get him some good acid with the right people or something. you can see where the chakras are all fucked up on the guy. Gary, if you are out there at least try some yoga...
I took the road less traveled, and now I would like to go back and find the paved one.
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some thoughts

Postby aforceforgood » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:56 am

Listening to some of the reasons why people voted for who they did, I'm freakin amazed their brains muster enough electricity to keep their lungs moving...

I'm sure Florida is relieved that it's going to be us in the news, which takes the pressure and derision off of them... I've been really offended by the eye-rolling and insulting and minimizing by the "mainstream" media (in other words, the fucking idiot propaganda sound bite spouting talking heads on tv) characterizing California voters exercising our rights as citizens and making at least one politician accountable for his greed, corruption, and incompetence as just some kind of wacky extended flash mob antic. There's something seriously wrong when the media discourages you from making your voice heard in politics when they're getting fat off of this whole circus...

This is the same type of stereotypical thinking that tries to paint a person as only one thing, which is almost always wrong. And the sad thing is, hearing some of the incredibly stupid comments I have today, some people will take that bait, hook, line, sinker, and pole. I mean jeez, 25% of voters bought Bustamante's crap.

This is a strange mix of depression and elation I'm feeling just now...
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Postby Rob the Wop » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:29 am

aforceforgood,

For some reason I don't ever see you being happy with any political result of any election or due process. I picture you screaming at the TV set after the recall election, regardless of the results. I hope you're less stressed in real life than you are on the Eplaya.

Just look on the bright side, you couldn't pick a better candidate to make fun of for the next year or so. I mean just picture if an emergency happens!

(In heavily exicted Arnold speek)
"Peep hole oalf Call if horn yaaaa, ve har int rooble! "
<i>"Wha? Huh? What's going on?"</i>
"A mine whore ert quayk hast aphend un laws Angle less dat hast"
<i>"A what? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING DAMMIT! Are there space aliens?"</i>
"dees rupt ted all pow wha in das North urn re juns"
<i>"Oh God, the Russians. Is that it? It's the Russians isn't it?"</i>
"und der is lew ting und rye utes. Stay cawm."
<i>"Giant clams?! Holy shit! Someone get that kid from the Facts of Life on there- we need a fucking interpreter!"</i>
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Postby Badger » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:08 am

Well, I voted.

Things didn't go my way but I feel good about it in that I voted my conscience and in the end I didn't feel like I needed to take a shower after stepping away from the polling station.

Stopped buying into the idea that the choice somehow HAD to be either Demo or Republican. I voted as a lone individual rather than as part of a monolith.

Yeah, we get a new governor that probably ramps up the craziness factor that California has long been associated with but in all honesty, there are worse Republicans out there that could have slimed their way into the governor's mansion.

I'm just wondering how this recall thing is going to pan out in the future regardless of who is governor. Methinks Pandora's box has been opened...
.
Desert dogs drink deep.

Image
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hey, it's the eplaya, not a party

Postby aforceforgood » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:28 pm

I'm a whooole lot more fun in real life than on the eplaya.

I'd pretty much have to be, wouldn't I?

I just let my train of thought flow here, I like the back and forth between intelligent people, and I'm actually overall pretty happy with the outcome- but I just feel like that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to point out the humor where I see it and our shortcomings nonetheless.

And I really had to say something after hearing a guy on the radio explain that he voted for Bustamante because his sexual morals are the strongest. As far as that guy knows, anyways. And anyways, wouldn't it be a lot easier to have "good" sexual morals if you were fat, ugly, and stupid? Maybe Arnold should get more credit for not fucking more women.

I think Arnold will do a good job- it's not like a big yellow "S" is gonna appear on his chest, and he's gonna zip around at super speed and fix everything himself. He's built up a good team around himself already, and I expect that will only snowball.

Glad to hear about some instances of rational independent thought Badger. Thanks for the good news.
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Re: hey, it's the eplaya, not a party

Postby PJ » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:22 pm

aforceforgood wrote:...And anyways, wouldn't it be a lot easier to have "good" sexual morals if you were fat, ugly, and stupid?


Finally, a bumper sticker slogan I can get behind.
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Postby PJ » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:40 pm

Alpha wrote:I'm moving to Montana.


Good choice. There's certainly no gun-loving, tax-hating, anti-abortion, ant-immigrant Republican voters up there sitting around the wood stove while the blizzards roar outside.
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Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:47 pm

At least I wouldn't be paying 10% state income tax for the privilege of a governor I don't like managing a bankrupt economy.
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Postby alice » Wed Oct 08, 2003 2:52 pm

Alpha wrote:At least I wouldn't be paying 10% state income tax for the privilege of a governor I don't like managing a bankrupt economy.


we're considering a move to oregon.
bitch all you want - it won't change nothin.
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Postby Alpha » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:24 pm

alice wrote:we're considering a move to oregon.


yeah, they love Californians up there!
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Postby Rob the Wop » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:25 pm

alice wrote:
Alpha wrote:At least I wouldn't be paying 10% state income tax for the privilege of a governor I don't like managing a bankrupt economy.


we're considering a move to oregon.


Oregon has a state income tax (though less). But we do have no sales tax. And other neato stuff.
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Postby PJ » Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:48 pm

Alpha wrote:At least I wouldn't be paying 10% state income tax for the privilege of a governor I don't like managing a bankrupt economy.


I'm a big fan of voting with one's wallet. And feet.

A lesson for the future is: during the rare overly-good economic times, pay attention to what your legislature and your city council is doing to your tax rates. Because when bad times return, as they always do, the downside of high taxes is amplified--and the beneficiaries of those tax money outlays will fight as hard as possible to keep their fists in your pockets.
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:16 pm

A lesson for the future is: during the rare overly-good economic times, pay attention to what your legislature and your city council is doing to your tax rates. Because when bad times return, as they always do, the downside of high taxes is amplified--and the beneficiaries of those tax money outlays will fight as hard as possible to keep their fists in your pockets.


I'm down with that. Totally. Never could figure out how any politico could not think that the good times in California would last forever. I started clueing in the first time I ran into some 90+ thousand dollar/yr 24 y.o. kid brag about how he was going to be worth 3 mil as soon as the IPO was finalized for some web site idea that was nothing more than ScratchYourAss dot com.

I fucking KNEW the hammer was gonna be falling anytime and that the big shakedown was just around the corner. Still the fools in Sacramento were speding the windfall like there was no tomorrow. It was at this point that I decided I'd had enough and that extreme fiscal/social conservatism and wreckless social spending were two sides of a very ugly coin.
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