Antibiotics Camp

Postby Kinetic IV » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:36 am

So now the discussion is changing to setting up a temporary pharmacy on the playa? Not to be negative but that gets into state oversight...and the last thing the event seems to want is more state people poking around, or license hoops to jump through. I base that opinion on the reaction to the food inspectors that snooped around. They were not welcome. And in fact I think there are eplaya comments about that but I'm too lazy right now to look 'em up.

I used a broad brush with the word pharmacy, I know the current reference is to antibiotics. But this could become another slippery slope. I can see it already...ok we have antibiotics, how about migraine meds, eye meds, and on and on it goes until we have the equivalent of a CVS pharmacy chain store sitting out there. How do you tell one group that yeah we have antibiotics but if you have another kind of trouble it's off to Gerlach or Reno for you? You can't. And that brings up issues of fair access...sheesh I feel like I'm skiing down the slope already just writing this. I'm going to shut up now and toss this out for comments.

Edited for grammatical issues. 2X. Today sucks.
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Postby blyslv » Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:36 am

Damm you badger and your reasoned, fact based responses!

I'm off to take care of some painful, morbid itching.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:08 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:I used a broad brush with the word pharmacy, I know the current reference is to antibiotics. But this could become another slippery slope. I can see it already...ok we have antibiotics, how about migraine meds, eye meds, and on and on it goes until we have the equivalent of a CVS pharmacy chain store sitting out there
Imagine the headache of trying to keep morphine safe out there.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:09 pm

ratgirl wrote:I've paid out of pocket for antibiotics before and I think it was around $60 or $70. I would gladly pay that to the med tent at BM for antibiotics
Oh great, now we'd need a cashier and lock box.
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Postby ratgirl » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:44 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
ratgirl wrote:I've paid out of pocket for antibiotics before and I think it was around $60 or $70. I would gladly pay that to the med tent at BM for antibiotics
Oh great, now we'd need a cashier and lock box.


Uh, Hello? What do you think the people at the front gate are doing when people buy tickets? How about the people at CenterCamp selling Chai and Coffee? They're accepting money! Cashier, Lockbox, and all.

For some odd reason, I think that having something like antibiotics is a little more important than having something like Chai or Coffee.
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Postby Janka » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:48 pm

For the record, I am not too enthusiastic about setting more services on the playa, especially services you can get for money. Not even if these services are very, very nice to have in an emergency. And yes, I might change my mind if I hit a very serious emergency, but I doubt.

(I'd classify my personal experiences so far as "minor annoyances", but I do know people's mileage on this really, really varies. I tend to bitch a lot when annoying things happen, but things seem to have to be quite seriously bad before I consider them bad afterwards... my sister can't stand this "feature" of me. But I digress.)

What I would consider a nice addition would be an MD donating their time.

Why I thought it could be possible (well, still do) for someone to want this is that I am an MD, and if 1) the event was under Finnish law, 2) I was fully qualified to practice (I am not, at least not yet), and 3) I had the necessary skills (I do not, I am a stupid impractical researcher, which is why I usually do not want to advertise the MD bit at all ;)), I would consider it. I see cooks, mechanics, hair-dressers, dancers and what-not gifting their professional skills all the time, and I suppose med-tent probably has nurses and paramedics doing the same... While most MDs probably would not even consider it, some that would enjoy BM anyway might - though this is just my estimation without any in-depth knowledge of the US medical culture and legal system.
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Postby helitack » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:50 pm

How about we require everyone to have medical insurance to get in the gate?
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Postby Janka » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:59 pm

Uh. Now I am going to confess to something very stupid. It never occured to me that someone would travel to the playa without being insured in case of an accident or acute illness. :D I imagined even people who are not usually insured would get a "travelling insurance" type of thing - am I assuming too much, that such are available in the US too?

I'd say do not require it, any more than you require having a tent and food. Just very, very strongly recommend. :)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:59 pm

ratgirl wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
ratgirl wrote:I've paid out of pocket for antibiotics before and I think it was around $60 or $70. I would gladly pay that to the med tent at BM for antibiotics
Oh great, now we'd need a cashier and lock box.


Uh, Hello? What do you think the people at the front gate are doing when people buy tickets? How about the people at CenterCamp selling Chai and Coffee? They're accepting money! Cashier, Lockbox, and all.

For some odd reason, I think that having something like antibiotics is a little more important than having something like Chai or Coffee.
Yes, the front gate and the cafe have money. I've even seen the armoured car that takes it off the plaza. REMSA is paid persons--contracted out. This makes another level of complexity from the volenteers at gate and in the cafe. (No, I'm not going to get into the cafe arguement. It's too damn silly.) And I do think that antibiotics are more important than coffee, in fact I think antibiotics so important that I'd go off playa and make sure they were done right.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:00 pm

How about we require everyone to have medical insurance to get in the gate?


In some circles / mindsets that "could" be considered discrimination based on socio-economic status. So would you advocate keeping "starving artists" types out because they can't afford health insurance?
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Postby helitack » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:05 pm

Radical self reliance. Radical idea. Buy some insurance. Eat ramen.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:06 pm

Janka wrote: I would consider it. I see cooks, mechanics, hair-dressers, dancers and what-not gifting their professional skills all the time, and I suppose med-tent probably has nurses and paramedics doing the same... While most MDs probably would not even consider it, some that would enjoy BM anyway might - though this is just my estimation without any in-depth knowledge of the US medical culture and legal system.
Med tent (REMSA) medics and nurses are paid. This (almost certainly) comes with the contract as they are a medical service that works other events and provide us with ambulances, and other equipment and are affiliated with the helicopter people. Medical outpost/ESD personel are volenteers. THere are doctors amoung them, including a neurologist. However, the level of care remains at First Responder with anything more advanced being done at Reno ERs or on route to same.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:13 pm

Janka wrote:Uh. Now I am going to confess to something very stupid. It never occured to me that someone would travel to the playa without being insured in case of an accident or acute illness.
Welcome to the united states, home of 40 million medically indigent persons.
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Postby Badger » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:19 pm

Welcome to the united states, home of 40 million medically indigent persons.


Edit to add 'one of two countiries in the world (the other being Iran) that employes medical apartheid (free market economics) as a foundation in treating (or denying treatment) to its citizens.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:24 pm

40 Million Americans without health insurance with no end in sight, and not a viable alternative on the table. At one time I thought we should go with a similar system to the British NHS but I've heard horror stories about it that made me step back and reconsider.

And Badger that was an interesting fact...and I'm surprised that hasn't been used for political gain by the current administration.
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Postby Elemental666 » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:08 pm

group insurance? just a thought...
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Postby Janka » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:37 am

I know that there are loads of people in the US without medical insurance :(. There's a lot of bad things in our system too, but I still think I prefer the state running that stuff.

What I was thinking is that hereabouts it is possible to get an insurance thing that is called (in literal translation) "travel insurance" that covers things like medical care, possible emergency transport, theft, some legal expenses (like in case I crash a car or something like that), etc. What they cover varies, of course, and so does the cost. As we do things like hiking in wilderness, scuba diving, and stuff, ours is pretty heavy-duty. However, I would have assumed such are available in the US too (I am sure they must be!), and that people would get them when they travel to places where they might need a long ambulance drive, or med-care in places they cannot negotiate about the price, or whatever. Even if the have to eat even more ramen than they already do to get to the playa in the first place. ;)
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:18 am

Janka, it is available. www.squaremouth.com is one place to find it. But for many people they don't know where to look or they don't think to look. And $130 being spent on something that you most likely won't use is a gamble many people won't take. There have been newspaper articles debating the merits of having this insurance and it seems to be discouraged, also the available plans are designed around cruises and organized tours...finding something strictly for medivac is kinda tough and not really that good on the cost either. And the Black Rock Desert is remote but it's still in the flight range of Reno's helos. So regular insurance may come through and cover the flight out...if you have it.

With all of those hassles to getting travel coverage you can see why it gets overlooked. It might as well not even exist for most people.
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Postby Janka » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:54 am

Kinetic, yeah, talk about the plans for tours etc. We had to go into our company, and personally negotiate a plan for just ourselves. The poor clerk called someone superior several times during the session, asking if some version covers ambulance plane ride away from a remote mountain, or decompression chamber treatments in navy bases, or whatever. :)

The nice thing about this plan is that as we travel quite a lot, it makes sense for us to just pay a yearly fare which then covers us for whatever time we happen to travel that year (travel as opposed to immigration being defined as being away from home up to 90 consequtive days, I think).

But I think I am drifting quite far off-topic. Just feeling chatty today, no bigger reason for sharing this...:)
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:46 pm

Janka wrote:But I think I am drifting quite far off-topic.


That's nothing to worry about around here, thread drift happens alot. Besides, this horse has been flogged from almost every conceivable angle so a little thread drift is kinda nice.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:19 pm

Yup, this topic could use some serious drift. Maybe we should talk about mayoniasse.
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:56 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Yup, this topic could use some serious drift. Maybe we should talk about mayoniasse.


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Postby AntiM » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:36 pm

Sam 'n Ella's homemade mayo, needs no refrigeration.
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Postby Elemental666 » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:07 pm

warm mayo.... my mind won't let me go there...
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Postby Clownsuit » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:34 pm

It's my understanding that mayo actually doesn't need much refrigeration . It's acidic. The idea that mayo spoils easily comes from the things that it's generally combined with, like tuna. That's just my understanding of the situation, though.
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Postby Dark Cipher » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:55 pm

Image

And in this case you'll DEFINATELY need antibiotics on the playa.
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Postby robotland » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:16 am

More likely a trip to the Mayo Clinic.
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Postby Janka » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:17 am

Even looking at that picture makes me feel sick.

Not that I don't like mayo, in proper contexts. :)
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Postby AntiM » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:17 am

clownsuit wrote:
It's my understanding that mayo actually doesn't need much refrigeration . It's acidic. The idea that mayo spoils easily comes from the things that it's generally combined with, like tuna. That's just my understanding of the situation, though


You're likely thinking of commercially prepared "salad dressing" (miracle whip) not mayonaisse. Real mayo is primarily made with oil and egg yolks, and yes a bit of vinegar or lemon juice; the food poisoning part comes from either salmonella in the raw eggs or bacterial growth in the finished mayo. Bacteria love mayo as a medium, hence the need for refrigeration.

See? arcane shit filling my head.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:45 am

Just curious...am I the only one that hates mayo on here? Even if it's on a sandwich and I didn't know about it, the taste of it makes me gag. I can't explain why it just does. BLEECH!!!!! The best place for mayo IMHO is in a trash can.
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