Edit Discussion

Discuss the policies of ePlaya here.

Should there be editing of posts?

No - no editing
8
17%
Some form of limited edit (timeout/last post/etc.)
21
45%
Yes - unrestricted
18
38%
 
Total votes : 47

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:34 pm

Nightterror.

I'm sorry.
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Postby Nightterror » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:39 pm

I disagree that "we" all want and edit function.

I don't think that a poll with 25 responses can justify a decision.

I enjoy the occasional Fruedian slip. "dent in the barhop" correction "bartop" i laughed for ten minutes at that one.

I don't care that i don't know how to spell fruedian.

Say what you want to say and if it is taken wrong so be it. Apollogize and choose your words more carefully next time.

So what if I use a period instead of a ? If thats how you base your opinion of me - good for you - I feel sorry for you.

I have used boards with an edit function before - I think everyone on their was wearing a suit and tie. Boring Boring Boring.

I don't want to read corrected conversations.
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Postby geekster » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:46 pm

Well, I will go on record as saying that I personally want edit, even if only for a few minutes to maybe correct a bad url or something. Given what I personally would want in order of desire:

Full edit
limited time edit
no edit

I am not going to pitch a bitch over any decision made and am not digging my heals in kicking and screaming for any particular position, simply stating that I feel the entire tone of "what should we 'let' the users do" to be someone irritating but that might have more to do with offline personal issues than anything going on here. Maybe I am just crabby right now.
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Postby geekster » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:57 pm

I ment to say somewhat irritating.
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Stalin would have voted for an edit button.

Postby Ludwig » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:19 pm

geekster wrote:The inability to edit enfoces a certain stasis I might be, as a growing and changing being, unwilling to accept. I might find that I no longer hold positions on issues or opinions on topics that I once held.


The ability to go back and edit your past self is a fun fantasy (who hasn't said "If I knew then what I know now...?") but that's all it should be. The inability to edit doesn't enforce stasis, it forces an acknowledgement of our status as constantly developing beings. Editing the record of your past to make it appear more in line with your current self is dishonest, to yourself and to everyone else.

As to the copyright issue, IANAL but I do know that that argument is a non-starter. Having posted your writing on a public forum does not deprive you of copyright any more than having your book made available in a public library, particularly when the TOS explicitly say you retain it. There is a vanishingly small chance that the future market value of an eplaya comment (ha ha) will be diminished by dint of the content being available for free, but the experience of publishers who have experimented with releasing books for free online suggests the opposite. Shakespeare still sells, after all.

Someone else earlier asserted that removing the edit function was a technological solution to a social problem, but one could say the same thing about providing an edit function in the first place. The difference is that removing it is an effective solution which doesn't cause more problems, while providing it replaces the minor problems of typos and rushed comment with a freshly-opened can of revisionist worms.

One change I would like to see is nested threading, which would make it clear who is responding to whom. This would alleviate the problem of someone else posting a context-changing comment while your comment is still being composed. I haven't seen any phpbb implement this, so I don't know if it's an existing option or would have to be coded in, but it would do far more usability good than an edit button.
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Postby geekster » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:28 pm

It isn't really a big deal. It isn't like I have really USED an edit function all that much except maybe to correct spelling or to clarify something. Sometimes in the past I have used edit to remove a posting that I later considered to be unnecessarily inflamitory after further reflection.

There are plenty of other places that do allow edit ... just about everywhere else on the planet, actually. I will just have to keep that in mind when posting here or when deciding to even come here.
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:37 pm

It isn't really a big deal.


Not in the grand scheme of things, no--it isn't.

This board has tons of content to prove that it isn't critical for its continued function.
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Re: Stalin would have voted for an edit button.

Postby geekster » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:40 pm

Ludwig wrote:The ability to go back and edit your past self is a fun fantasy (who hasn't said "If I knew then what I know now...?") but that's all it should be. The inability to edit doesn't enforce stasis, it forces an acknowledgement of our status as constantly developing beings. Editing the record of your past to make it appear more in line with your current self is dishonest, to yourself and to everyone else.


That depends on how it is done. If a line is added along the lines of:

NOTE: I no longer hold the above position on this issue

or something like that, it is fine. Editing a post doesn't always mean changing it. Sometimes it means adding a clarification or update.

As to the copyright issue, IANAL but I do know that that argument is a non-starter.


I wasn't making a copyright issue. I was making an issue out of something else that is written down here in the TOS or FAQ or someplace about "owning your words" in a difference sense than a copyright sense. More of in a social sense. But in reality ownership of words are just that, ownership. And one of the rights of ownership is control. If you have no control, you no longer have ownership of the words, they own you.

Someone else earlier asserted that removing the edit function was a technological solution to a social problem, but one could say the same thing about providing an edit function in the first place. The difference is that removing it is an effective solution which doesn't cause more problems, while providing it replaces the minor problems of typos and rushed comment with a freshly-opened can of revisionist worms.


I disagree with that conclusion. I understand it. I just don't agree with it.

One change I would like to see is nested threading, which would make it clear who is responding to whom. This would alleviate the problem of someone else posting a context-changing comment while your comment is still being composed. I haven't seen any phpbb implement this, so I don't know if it's an existing option or would have to be coded in, but it would do far more usability good than an edit button.


Yeah, nobody does threading right these days since usenet "died" (it isn't dead but such as small percentage of the internet uses it these days, it might as well be. Trying to turn HTTP into NNTP doesn't work. Better to use NNTP but that is a whole nother discussion.
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Don't you hate annoyingly long posts on BBS's? Heh.

Postby actiongrl » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:48 pm

You're not forsaken, sweet Spanky. I was in another one of those gol durned meetings, but I'm here now for my two minutes on the soapbox.

I don't think people shouldn't make mistakes, but those mistakes, especially if it's just spelling or grammar, don't warrant edit.


Oof.
Here's where I come from on this. That sort of sentiment is one that I, as a writer, communicator, and linguistic fetishist, find terribly disheartening. (I got your comma abuse right here, baby.) Online communication, with its frequent "screw the details, give me maximum information as quickly as possible!" lack of attention to proper writing, seems to have slowly eroded our culture's attention to clear and effective use of the written word.

Now, I don't expect that to be important to everyone, and you know from IMing me that I understand when urgency negates the need to bother. Still, it is important to some, and overall, I believe that allowing those who strive toward a standard to continue to pursue it will be integral to the survival of written language. Sure, I can forgive others making spelling or grammatical errors - it happens all the time. (I have a harder time forgiving the adaptations of things like "2" and "u" when a full keyboard is available, but I'll get over that as long as there's one other person who will roll their eyes at it with me.) Adn I konw taht tahnks to oru brian's increidbel adpaptbaility, teh basci shpae fo a wrod is gnerally engouh fro teh redaer ot decdoe teh intneded messgae.

But I do not think that those facts should dictate that we remove the power of the writer to stand by his words by ensuring that they came out the way he meant them. If my words are for posterity, and will forever be attributed to me, should I not have at least a moment's opportunity to see them, in context, and get a solid shot at clarifying an unclear, or easily misunderstood point, or ill-conceived sentence structure?

Please believe me when I say that if I find I have made a grammatical error or a mistake in syntax or context, I might very well fret over such a thing for a very long time. I know, I know. "Get over it." Well, understanding the written word in interpersonal communication is really my livelihood, and a lifelong fascination. Hence our heated in-person exchange yesterday over the distinction between using book style commas in a series vs. newspaper style commas in a series in the Survival Guide edits. (Thunderdome, my love? ;) )

More importantly than ego, however, if I find that I have been unclear and I have no way to edit to improve it, my error is not only embarassing, but can provide misleading, inaccurate, or even destructive information. All that just because I made a mistake when I clicked a button? Extreme examples, perhaps.

I do try to be careful, but the point is well made that sometimes you think you've communicated effectively, and then five minutes later realize that you have spoken words which in fact you did not mean, despite having been careful. Or worse - you accidentally hit "submit" instead of "preview". Yikes.

And in closing...punishing 99% of the people for the fuckwittery of the 1% just doesn't seem like a good way to stay in the community's good graces.

PQ said it just yesterday: Strunk and White have a posse.

(Note: the reader may now commence calling me a haughty, self-important language geek; be warned, you'll only be encouragin' me.)
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:57 pm

By the way...I'm not sure I really support unlimited edit. I don't, actually. I'd support a midway solution of say, maybe, a half hour. If someone's going back to my posts a year ago and is going to see the opinions I held then and use them to judge me now/get angry/start a fight, without allowing that I might have changed my mind or grown since then, I'd probably draw them a diagram on how to kiss my ass.

You won't see me editing anything once I've left a thread, probably. Mayybe the next day (see also: posting while drunk.) I did edit a post once the next day...so maybe 24 hours? I dunno.
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Re: Stalin would have voted for an edit button.

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:58 pm

geekster wrote:
As to the copyright issue, IANAL but I do know that that argument is a non-starter.


I wasn't making a copyright issue.
I thought he was referencing Badger's musings on the subject.

Oh and Stalin wouldn't have voted for an edit button, all he wanted was to put more trees in his group photos.
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Postby geekster » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:01 pm

punishing 99% of the people for the fuckwittery of the 1% just doesn't seem like a good way to stay in the community's good graces.


<sarcasm>
Yeah, first they take away edit and the next thing you know they will be banning guns from burningman ... oh, wait ... nevermind
</sarcasm>

And I suppose Actiongrl has hit the nail squarely on the head. To assume we are all immature brats because a couple of people act like one seems patronizing to me. If someone starts doing that, we can simply ignore them. End of problem. We didn't have that option before, we do now. In other words, the environment itself has change so concepts that held true in the old environment may no longer hold water.
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Postby spanky » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:20 pm

I agree with the 1/99% thing, but it's the 1% that do the damage. [ grandpa simpson]shame. SHAAAAAMME![/grandpa simpson]

OK, keep up the discussion. I want something to look forward to after my relaxing weekend by the sea.

I'm off to get ready and pick up my lovely girlfriend at the airport.

~Spanky

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Postby actiongrl » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:29 pm

Well, misplaced commas don't cause greivous bodily harm, but I'll sit down for that one.

And no, we won't get consensus on anything amongst 7000 users. By my estimation it'd probably take approximately 8.5 years to make this single decision that way. So, is a poll of 25 an effective poll to figure consensus?

Well, those who care about the edit discussion have bothered to wander in, cast a vote, support with opinions, and show up for the discussion. Thereby was built a heirarchy for creating the consensus that will lead to a decision being made by those who have the authority to make it and the power to act it out. Or at least we'll all have fun trying, I hope.

HAVE FUN Spanks!
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Postby Badger » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:39 pm

The Burning Man Project has no desire to own your words. You own your words and can go do with them as you wish. The Project is allowed to re-use your words (see ToS) if we want, say for promotion (I can't imagine this, but for example). When I say "own your words", maybe I should be clearer and say "stand by what you said". Once you hit submit, you don't lose control of them, you lose the ability to erase them or take them back. You lose the ability to change history.


Spanky, I encourage you to read the Well's User Agreement. Only because I think you have a very different idea of the YOYOW than what either I or the Well means by 'ownership.' I might be wrong here but your post (noted above) suggests a very different interpretation of the concept than what i meant to initially convey. NOTE: the Google rabbit hole also has some hits that link to other people's idea/interpretaion of the concept that are quite interesting.
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oh and

Postby actiongrl » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:59 pm

oh, an' the only thing I have visibly confirmed that i'm definitely 'in charge' of in the world is making sure i wash my own cup in the office kitchen
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Postby Don Muerto » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:42 pm

[WARNING: MONSTER POST Take your ADD meds]

I still think that some definition of 'consensus' as it figures here would be enormously helpful. I find it irritating that there is some undefined test that must be met before an Unpopular and unnecessary tech change is reversed.

The whole thing smacks of certain opinions outweighing the general view, -a class system that has no place in a forum espousing the values touted here.

There has been some discussion of how deep the support for the return of edit is, with much frenzied pointing at the sample size of the poll. I think these folks would do well to remember that:

a) the edit discussions post-eplaya return took place in the Empire General Store and Categories threads too, -the preponderance in both being pro-edit

b) you are ignoring the long history of the issue on this board.

Here are some things that a search on the word 'edit' turned up.

The first series represent the oldest 3 pages of hits, it is not all inclusive but it is representative. If you plan to argue this point, be prepared to provide the counter-examples from the same time pages. I left out extraneous “edit” references about film/video and discussions of the function itself.

Peruse these, and you can see the *positive* effect of the edit function in myriad form:


BEGIN EDIT ENABLED
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's "If anyone wants . . . " Damn edit button doesn't seem to work.


I'm very sorry you experinced what you did and I realize you're probably still in shock, but I want to suggest that you edit your posting and remove the graphic details. You're hoping to find someone who knows this woman so that they can identify her - imagine that someone who knows her actually reads this. I'm sure you don't want to fill their minds with these images.


Actually Jeff, we did edit a great deal. That was completely sugar coated. What we saw was much more horrible than you can imagine.


I did use the edit feature and removed the quote from her website...


Edit: I am annoyed by motorized scooters. I am also annoyed by WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP house music, noisy generators, and men wearing shirts with no pants.


I'm the first person to overshare and TMI but it's generally my personal shit and doesn't drag another eplayan into it.

Your right. So I'll edit it out, except for the poking stick part. I think that's fair enough.


I made an edit and clarified that...


5: Censorship / Fuck Thread. Resist the urge to censor things. People hate the Fuck Thread, (edit: I happen to like it and use it) and there are over 800 of PJ's cow pix lurking around...


P.S. I can edit my spelling errors when I notice them later. It's fortunate that my speed typing is not set in stone once I press the submit button.


I'm trying to figure which parts to edit out for a quick post.


Edit: Bob, by the way I'm not going into a NetCop frenzy.


I'd also encourage use of the Edit button...I make mistakes but sheesh, try and clean up your posts a little.


Edit: Ooh, I deleted the insults even *before* I read technopatra's plea over in General Discussion.


[Edit: It occurs to me that, were Burning Man to allow vending


Edit your post to pull that email address and i'll believe when you say you...


(edit: I also found this in : I Need)


Addition/Edit after a re-read. My experience is...


edit: it was four years, not five as I originally wrote


what's really annoying is that when you post as a guest, you can't edit later on.


The edit feature lets us do it ourselves. I agree with those who say that if you regret posting a thought, you can and should remove it yourself.


I would love to point out the greatest features of this board, the edit button.


Gentle suggestion to the author: please edit your postings for mispellings and grammar.


Sorry for the edit, accidently said iran instead of SU.


END EDIT ENABLED
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It is evident that the majority of edits added clarification to the conversation, or removed things perceived as mistakes or bad ideas.

This second section is the most recent 3 pages of hits exempting those dates after the most recent (3/15) reignition of the eplaya.


BEGIN EDIT DISABLED
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damn the no edit!


Dam thing and no edit too.


aside from features lacking like edit, and others that people have brought up,


Maybe a timmed edit would have allowed me to fix the above posts


Gosh I really wish we could edit posts. This rots.


why is there no edit button


no god damn fucking edit function


damn edit butt.....


If I had only had a FUCKING EDIT BUTTON,


i would be very thankful for an edit button.


Edit button, please?


need a goddam edit button!


sorry, My first post I got screwed up. I don't know how to edit or delete in this forum


BTW, where's that edit button?


I want to be able to edit my posts too!


me too!!!!


And HEY! Where the HELL is my EDIT BUTTON?


HEY, EDIT BUTTON OVER HEAR, PLEASE!!!!


i really wish i had an edit key.


And I SOOO wish I had an edit key


donde esta el llave 'edit'?!?!


hey, does not being able to edit your posts count as a bug?

it sure should...


fucking phpbb bug that doesn't let you edit your posts


darn edit button...i'm sure she meant


cOnfusion. dammit. edit?


goddamn mutha fuckin' lack of edit!


Damn Edit button still doesn't work


Whoops, where's that danged edit button, meant to say


Arrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!!! No edit button


for the love of all mankind, can we get a fucking edit function back?


fucking edit function...


You know the funniest fucking thing about 'no edit' is that you either jump in and drown, or you don't jump in at all.


i want the fucking edit function, please.


i want my edit!!!


Fucking edit!!!! ---Teachers NEED to do a...---


need an edit button!!!!! PLEASE!


damn...there really needs to be an edit button on here....


DAMMIT! I DEMAND AN EDIT BUTTON!!


Damn edit button... or lack thereof...


Fix the fucking edit function while you're at it, you morons


ps. the edit button isn't broken, it's turned off so that people do not go back and change their posts in times of controversy as we have seen done before. i miss the ability to edit my posts, too!


for the love of humanity, can we get a fucking edit fun ...


forgot to edit the above---


my version of the edit button :oops:


stupid no edit mofo board...


Damn the nonexistent edit button, too.


fucking no edit function, and lousy proof-reading


FUCK!! I gotta' edit these things before I post them...


END EDIT DISABLED
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Note the tenor of the posts and tell me again how this is just a few strident voices on the margins. The sheer volume of the expression of this sentiment adds cruft to the board even if you ignore the sentiment itself.

Is that quantifiable enough for you?
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Postby Bob » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:16 pm

Would the admins please inform us exactly how many users have abused "edit" such that it required action?

Where does thing horrid & flagrant re-editing of posts rank compared to other abuses based on actual experience?

How many offensively re-edited posts appeared outside the friendly confines of the General Discussion chat room?

If a five or ten minute edit window is no big deal to implement, I see no reason to dumb-down the eplaya in order to cater to mistrust and paranoia about the occasional desire among many of us to correct errors wrt spelling, grammar, format, text links, image links, smileys, snarlys, snarkys or scowlys.
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Postby Bob » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:18 pm

I meant

"Where does this horrid & flagrant re-editing of posts rank compared to other abuses based on actual experience?"

Where the damn edit button?
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Postby Bob » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:21 pm

I meant:

"Where's the damned edit button?"
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:50 pm

Don Muerto...crap! now I wish I had a single-click to migrate comments to the crush thread. (crushes DM)

Still, it is easy to like people who share your opinions. The definition we use to define consensus within the rest of the organization draws from this article on consensus that I linked to elsewhere last night: http://afterburn.burningman.com/01/org/consensus.html

Reality though: we're talking about a huge group of people here if we really seek to incorporate every user's deep desires. Decision making is fascinating stuff, and it would be great to make everyone happy, but ha ha ha ha ha. I don't even know how to make two of us agree 100% on an issue, much less everyone. I'm very pleased Spanky and the ETF have been willing to sit down lately and look at it anew, and that new folks have stepped up to the discussion. I'm sorry that we have had any problems, or any volunteers depart, or any hurt feelings, or any stupid interpersonal battles. I think that some of that's inherent to the medium, but that doesn't absolve us all of trying to solve differences, any more than in real life.

The discussions of a year and a half ago netted some changes, and took a lot of work and time, and some results were beloved and some not so much. To me the idea is not just the finished 'perfect' thing but the process of collaborating on it... finding out where we meet that makes sense and trying something new to see if there are ways to respond to problems and increase usefulness - both with social tools and technological ones and maybe some jawjacking and even more mistakes I'm sure.

This seems to have wandered back into philosophy and away from purely edit discussion. I'll move if ya want me to take it to Empire...hee.

Now, the day that there's not one person bitching, that's when I will worry.
S'anyway, it's Friday. Shouldn't we be in the Bar or the bar or the backyard with a beer or a nice cup of tea?
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:06 pm

Oh, and I also love Bob, a singular reason I stuck around the eplaya when I stumbled 'pon it in the first place. Night!
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:45 pm

Note: People can report or raise the attention to those who repeatedly abuse editing, if it gets out of hand there is the option of uninstalling the mod.
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Postby Isotopia » Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:04 am

I still think that some definition of 'consensus' as it figures here would be enormously helpful.


Oh, thanks Don-o. Thanks for ruining it for eveyone.

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Postby Nightterror » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:56 am

Irrefutable evidence - - - - - -



Damn the I hate edit!


Dam thing edit I hate it.


aside from features like edit, and others that people have not brought up,


Maybe a timmed edit would not have allowed me to fix the above posts


Gosh I really wish we could'nt edit posts. This rots.


why is there a edit button


god damn fucking edit function


damn edit butt.....


If I had only didn't have a FUCKING EDIT BUTTON,


i would not be very thankful for an edit button.


Edit button, no thank you?


Don't need a goddam edit button!


sorry, My first post I got screwed up. I don't want to edit or delete in this forum


BTW, where's that edit button?


I don't want to be able to edit my posts too!


me too!!!!


And HEY! the Edit Button is my HELL?


HEY, EDIT BUTTON OVER HEAR, PLEASE!!!!


i really wish i didn't have an edit key.


And I SOOO wish I didn't have an edit key


donde esta el llave 'edit'?!?!


hey, does being able to edit your posts count as a bug?

it sure should...


fucking phpbb bug that lets you edit your posts


darn edit button...i'm sure she meant


cOnfusion. dammit. edit?


goddamn mutha fuckin' edit!


Damn Edit button still works


Whoops, where's that danged edit button, meant to say


Arrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!!! edit button


for the love of all mankind, can we lose the fucking edit function?


fucking edit function...


You know the funniest fucking thing about edit is that you either jump in and drown, or you don't jump in at all.


i don't want the fucking edit function, please.


i don't want my edit!!!


Fucking edit!!!!


don't need an edit button!!!!! PLEASE!


damn...there really does not need to be an edit button on here....


DAMMIT! I HATE THE EDIT BUTTON!!


Damn edit button..


Remove the fucking edit function while you're at it, you morons


ps. the edit button isn't broken, it's turned off so that people do not go back and change their posts in times of controversy as we have seen done before.


for the love of humanity, can we lsoe the fucking edit fun ...


forgot to edit the above---


my version of the edit button :oops:


stupid edit mofo board...


Damn the edit button, too.


fucking edit function, and lousy proof-reading


FUCK!! I gotta' edit these things before I post them...



Note the tenor of the posts and tell me again how this is just a few strident voices on the margins. The sheer volume of the expression of this sentiment adds cruft to the board even if you ignore the sentiment itself.

Is that quantifiable enough for you?
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Postby spanky » Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:00 am

Badger wrote:Spanky, I encourage you to read the Well's User Agreement. Only because I think you have a very different idea of the YOYOW than what either I or the Well means by 'ownership.' I might be wrong here but your post (noted above) suggests a very different interpretation of the concept than what i meant to initially convey. NOTE: the Google rabbit hole also has some hits that link to other people's idea/interpretaion of the concept that are quite interesting.


Actually, I did read it right after posting that. I found it to be underwhelming and a sorta non-brainer. And yes, I read it carefully. I was thinking about something a little more substantative....like a case study or a discussion on the sociological impacts in an electronic community on the use of edit, different uses of edit and lessons learned by using it. You know...not a paragraph or two on the Well's policy, but like a research paper or something. I'm going to talk to Ron Meiners and see if he has any reference he can point us to. eCommunity is his forte.

Not to slap you down Badger, I just was looking for more than policy. I like their policy, though.

Gotta run!

~Spanky

P.S. Your sigline STILL sucks, despite repeated requests from the community to KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF!
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Postby Don Muerto » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:00 pm

Please forgive my lack of imagination, Nightterror, but your point utterly escapes me.

In fact, why don't you state your point as succinctly as you can because I am not sure what you are arguing for. I am having trouble finding anything beyond cryptic refutations of arguments placed in front of you by others.

All I know of your view is that you believe that the inability to edit forces thoughtful posting, and that you think the sample size of the poll is too small to be indicative.

I have shown the former to be not true at the typo/grammar level, nor at the content level by pointing out errors in our own posts in the very discussion of the matter, and by pointing to places in past posts where edit was used constructively.

I have shown the latter to be not true by posting just a small sample of the frustration people express by not being able to edit. The poll numbers are pro-edit as is the vast majority of commentary on the edit function.

Moreover, I have illustrated that the expression of this frustration, which would be absent if we had edit, to add non-content clutter to the board.

As I see it, your philosophy does not translate into practice. The status quo is that people cannot edit, and they bolster my argument by continuing to make errors, post things they wish they could edit, and gumming up the threads with laments to this effect.

What have you shown?
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Postby Nightterror » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:34 pm

I don't think reading 30+ quotes from 1 user supports the argument one way or the other. Maybe it was 40+ quotes from two or three users. Or, were all of those quotes a figment of someone's imagination. You proved absolutely nothing except that you could waste others time.

Cryptic refutator - how dare you. You haven't convinced me of anything.

So far the polls suggest .35% of the users support a dummy button.

That is just over 1/3 of 1%. Hardly a majority worth changing the policy of this board.

Making mistakes is part of life. It forces one to think and to grow and to learn. Editing isn't learning, it's covering up. Keep it real. Please do not allow an edit function.
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Postby Don Muerto » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:57 pm

Your refutation of the poll's significance, (and that is what it is -not support for your own position), based upon spurious statistics is irrelevant. If pro-edit has 0.35% support, then anti-edit has 0.098% or less than 1/10th of one percent support. We are never going to get the entire memberlist to vote, so please stop acting like it would take a majority of the entire population past and present to validate the point.

Hardly a majority worth changing the policy of this board.


I will remind you that this board used to *have* edit, and that the "policy of the board" already was changed. There never was a majority viewpoint to change to anti-edit, and I have shown this change was, and continues to be, unpopular.

So then, why NOT change it back? There are no technical hurdles, and it has been proven that the board clicked along just fine with the edit function in place. Further, I have shown that the board has suffered some with the edit function removed.

What have you shown?

You did reiterate your philosophy, but I don't see you offering the same level of support for it improving the board that you have demanded from the pro-edit camp.
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Postby Nightterror » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:03 pm

What have you proved? That you can make up quotes.

There must have been a good reason the edit function was removed or they wouldn't (supposedly) have removed it. So to reinstate it you would need to show just cause or a majority of users that agreed with you. That is why the 1/3 of 1% is significant and 1/10 of 1% isn't.
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