Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Our 2005 theme explores psychology: self-expression, self-reflection and the unconscious power of dreams. Discuss.

Go Jafe

Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:27 pm

Right on, Jafe. It sounds like the end of a fascinating project, and I admire your acceptance of the result like a true scientist and moving on to another inspiring project. All the best to you from my garage lab and I look forward to updates on your kazoo.
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Re: Go Jafe

Postby spanky » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:43 pm

Maybe you could take up splicing single frames of sex into movies and then show them on the playa. Then we wouldn't need Oral Sex Tuesday! ;)

~Spanky
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Re: Go Jafe

Postby dragonfly Jafe » Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:32 am

spanky wrote:Maybe you could take up splicing single frames of sex into movies and then show them on the playa. Then we wouldn't need Oral Sex Tuesday! ;)

~Spanky


Hmmm...maybe somehow projecting a video image onto a flame or smoke coming from the flaming kazoo. If you could modulate the flame you might be able to make a "plasma tweeter" of sorts, at least enough to get moans across audibly. Or if you had enough flaming kazoos, with a spread of frequencies in the vocal range, you could synthesize the sound that way as a varying combination of the individual frequencies. Add a mike, and people could see themselves talk in flame! (don't know if it would replace oral sex on tuesday or any day, however)
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Re: Go Jafe

Postby robotland » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:23 am

[quote="dragonfly Jafe "plasma tweeter"[/quote]

What a great band name!
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:25 pm

"Plasma Tweeter and the Flaming Kazoo's"
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Postby othereye » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:36 am

If you do build this installation, I've got personal concerns. That whole thing of it being transmitted across/into other camps up to 1/4 mile away scares me. The physical effects scare the bejeezus out of me. I've got a permanant condition that would react very very badly to this. I agree it's my own damn responsibility, therefore, not to subject myself to it. So here's what I'm asking, as a favor. Before we all head out to the playa, post with info on where you're going to be set up and what you're calling it? That way I'll know not to camp within 1/4 mile? Seriously, if I accidentally get subjected to this thing it will make for the world's worst first burn for me, and probably ruin the meals of anyone nearby for days on end.
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby HughMungus » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:11 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:Darn, it's been done before! The Church of Saint John the Baptist of the Alien Artichoke brought a Bass horn in 1999 & 2000 that is essentially what I was proposing. They found the horn to be very directional and have ~1/4 mile range (which is reassuring, I won't be wiping out the entire city!)


Are you going to camp 1/4 of a mile away from anyone else?

If you really want to drive people nuts, go ahead. If you camped near me, I'd figure out a way to take out your sound system.
It's what you make it.
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby othereye » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:37 pm

DallasPlaya wrote: If you camped near me, I'd figure out a way to take out your sound system.


I was going more for "Hey it's a really cool idea and I support it, how do I stay out of your way?" Thus: A cool idea gets realized + I don't get sick + I don't get criticized under read-the-ticket + I don't waste time being negative!

I've got 4 points. What can I trade those in for? *wink*
"Sometimes, honey, you just have to look reality in the eye and say..... 'what happened to your other eye, dude?!'" - Angela Waversak, as quoted on eriswerks.org
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby spectabillis » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:01 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:Are you going to camp 1/4 of a mile away from anyone else?If you really want to drive people nuts, go ahead. If you camped near me, I'd figure out a way to take out your sound system.

Unless I missed something else, if you read back that was being addressed - but its not an issue now.
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby HughMungus » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:16 pm

spectabillis wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:Are you going to camp 1/4 of a mile away from anyone else?If you really want to drive people nuts, go ahead. If you camped near me, I'd figure out a way to take out your sound system.

Unless I missed something else, if you read back that was being addressed - but its not an issue now.


I know, I know. I should have read the whole thread first. It just seems retarded to me that someone would think that setting up an ultra-low-frequency noise generator is a good idea at all (without doing the research into its possible effects). Maybe someone else with an equally retarded idea will think twice before doing whatever idea it is they have. See, I'm always thinking positive.
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby spectabillis » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:24 pm

DallasPlaya wrote:It just seems retarded to me that someone would think that {x} is a good idea at all (without doing the research into its possible effects). Maybe someone else with an equally retarded idea will think twice before doing whatever idea it is they have.


{x} = many things people try on the playa

Perhaps 'retarded' is not the best way to put it, especially when someone like DJ put his ideas out there, and did the research and trial.
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby HughMungus » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:48 am

spectabillis wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:It just seems retarded to me that someone would think that {x} is a good idea at all (without doing the research into its possible effects). Maybe someone else with an equally retarded idea will think twice before doing whatever idea it is they have.


{x} = many things people try on the playa

Perhaps 'retarded' is not the best way to put it, especially when someone like DJ put his ideas out there, and did the research and trial.


OK. I apologize. DJ, thanks for looking into this idea before doing it.
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Postby Janka » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:01 am

I know, I know. I should have read the whole thread first. It just seems retarded to me that someone would think that setting up an ultra-low-frequency noise generator is a good idea at all (without doing the research into its possible effects).


But they did do research. They asked for opinions, read about it, and they even tested it out, and then abandoned the idea! Reading the thread would really have helped.

An installation where one could have experienced a short pulse of this kind, with maybe a sound/light effect, and with the consent of the participants, somewhere far away from other stuff and contained enough not to accidentally get into non-interested parties - I would have liked that. Would probably have even tried it, even with knowing the risks.

(Without consent, subjecting people to effects as strong as described seems like feeding people drugs or alcohol without telling them or touching them against their will, something which I cannot think as very nice.)
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Postby robotland » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:17 am

Minor Departure For Interesting Anecdote.....Dragonfly Jafe and I had exchanged a few emails and eplaya posts over the last year or so before I happened to mention the Medieval wars I used to participate in as a kid....Turns out he's an old friend of mine that I haven't seen in about 25 years!

....Just glad he didn't have that Infrasound Blaster back when we faced each other across a battlefield! I'd give it a try now, out of curiosity, but I doubt he'd subject anyone to it without their consent.
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DragonFly`s Got Good Game

Postby EvilDustBooger » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:55 pm

Yeah, after you follow some of the planning, testing and designing
work he`s(DragonFly Jafe) done, I`d say he`s got a good head on his shoulders. It can`t hurt to explore all the possibilities. I can`t wait to hear more about his propane - horn thingies. Good luck with all your projects.
Stop by for a hot noodle. EDB
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Re: Ethics of Subliminal Effects?

Postby dragonfly Jafe » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:37 am

DallasPlaya wrote:
spectabillis wrote:
DallasPlaya wrote:It just seems retarded to me that someone would think that {x} is a good idea at all (without doing the research into its possible effects). Maybe someone else with an equally retarded idea will think twice before doing whatever idea it is they have.


{x} = many things people try on the playa

Perhaps 'retarded' is not the best way to put it, especially when someone like DJ put his ideas out there, and did the research and trial.


OK. I apologize. DJ, thanks for looking into this idea before doing it.


No problem, DP. I am pretty much now against large-scale infrasonic generators at BM, for what it's worth. I would go so far as to recommend that the BMorg set some policy about registering them as dangerous art (kind of like they do with fire now), since the effects can be so negative (and hard to localize).

I am planning to bring my infrasonic recording set-up to take some measurements and maybe produce a "sound map" of BRC this year. Be interesting to see how that compares with some of the established guidelines for maximum safe levels of exposure.
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