2007 - Kinetic Sculpture Racing Theme Camp

2007 - Kinetic Sculpture Racing Theme Camp

Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:35 pm

:D
Clearlake; October 30, 2006

There does not seem to be a 2007 Theme Camp section on ePlaya
yet, but a decision was made during the Ventura Kinetic Sculpture
Race last Saturday:
There will be a Kinetic Sculpture Racing Theme Camp at
Burning Man in 2007!

Considering how much crossover there already is between BM and KSR,
this is a natural.
In short, Kinetic Sculpture Racing Contraptions are human
powered mutant vehicles that are raced over land, sand, mud
and water. Most are based on bicycle parts, but there are also
many that are highly sophisticated.

With the Green theme for 2007, it seems particularly appropriate to
give this human powered sport/hobby/art-form/behavioral-disorder
its own Theme Kamp!

The Kinetic Kamp will probably be centered around the Kinetic
Mobile Kommand Center and Tea Parlour -- which is the white
bus with a red stripe you saw at 2:20 and D in 2006.

Wether this will be an Official Registered Theme Camp or just an
informal theme camp, is still to be decided.

We will not be able cross a river or make a mud pit on the Playa,
but we can sure give rides!

Here is the web site for the Grand Championship Kinetic Sculpture
Race in Humboldt County, Northern California:
www.kineticsculpturerace.org.

For The Glory!
(I travel a lot, so it may be a week or so before I reply to inquiries.)
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Postby capjbadger » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:11 pm

Hmm... I wonder if I can convert my ship from it's gas engine over to a pedal power setup. Do you know what HP the typical person can crank out while pedaling?
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Postby unjonharley » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:19 pm

Eillot, Sounds great. My sculpture wont be up to racing this year. But I am sure it will want to meet yours. All the runing works are in parts being painted right now. It will be assembled and ready for a test ride this week. Then paint and apply the fancy shit. I hope to have more than one on the playa 07
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:38 pm

.
Hi Capjbadger: I believe, from occasionally peeking at the
Human Powered Vehicle web sites, that human output is
usually measured in Watts for these purposes. Off the top
of my head, I might manage 100 Watts for a few minutes,
and Lance Armstrong can put out 500 Watts for a climb up
the Pyrinees. I bet somebody here can translate Watts to
Horsepower. If you want more accurate wattage figures,
the Human Power Vehicle Association would probably be
the best source.

A Watt is quite a lot of power. There is a science display in
Middletown where you can make a common household light
bulb shine by turning a hand crank. I had to use both arms
to make it glow!
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:59 pm

.
I'll post some photos of Kinetic Sculpture Racers to get us started.

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Pear County Chopper on the Playa.
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:02 pm

Image

Henry Ford Goes Surfing coming out of Eureka Harbor
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:04 pm

Image

Poseidon's Trident at Clearlake race in... I think that was 2003
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:07 pm

Image

From the Ventura race a few years ago;
this team was a high school class from Napa, Ca.
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:09 pm

Image

Kineticus Maximus hitting the mud bog at Sacramento a few years ago.
Alas, the Sacramento race is no longer being held.
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:13 pm

Image

El Wobblor of Clearlake
My neighbor built this with just a little guidance -
and it worked!
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Postby Elliot » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:17 pm

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The Two Ton Tricycle in the Sacramento River.
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Postby capjbadger » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:38 pm

Here's what i found via googling a bit... (I have no idea why I didn't just do this before asking.. lol)

1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts
1 watts = 0.00134102209 horsepower

"Measurement of Human Power:
The typical average continuous power that can be generated by pedaling is about one-sixth horsepower or 125 watts, more or less, depending on the weight, strength, and endurance of the person pedaling."

"The Human Engine
Consider now the human engine. In 1983 Douglas Malewicki gave a landmark paper at the International Human Powered Vehicle Association Scientific Symposium, in which he presented a graph showing the maximum duration of human effort for various steady power levels. This graph has been reproduced below for convenience. Notice from the graph that an average "healthy human" can produce a steady 0.1 horsepower (75 Watt) for a full eight hour period, while a "first class athlete" can produce 0.4 horsepower (300 Watt) for a similar period. Note that each data point on the curves represents an exhausted human. No more power is available without some rest and recovery. Thus at 0.4 hp the "healthy human" becomes exhausted within 10 minutes! Try to decide where you fit between these curves."

Image


These number worry me a bit. The ship moved with a 3.5HP engine. I can't figure if these sites speak of straight pedal power, or if the "power" can be amped up in some way with gearing.

hahaha... I just now noticed you're in Clearlake. I'm in Healdsburg. :D
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Postby Elliot » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:57 am

Then I remembered correctly! Me at 100 watts and Lance Armstrong
at 500 watts is right in the ball park. The HPV folks are serious
scientists -- and some of them are involved in KSR! This is one of
the many things that makes KSR so much fun-- people from all walks
of life participate equally at whatever level they happen to be
competent.

Let's see.... [scratching head ominously]
Horsepower is torque x RPMs. That is, force x how fast that force
is delivered. Or, the amount of work to be done, times (or divided
by?) how long it takes to do it. [I'm no engineer!] Let's say I'm
simply standing on the ground behind the vehicle and pushing on it
with a certain force. That's the force or torque. After the machine
moves the length of my arms, I have to take a step forward and
start over with bent arms. RPMs or speed is how fast I can take that
step and "re-cock" my arms without becoming instantly exhausted.
[Just train of thought here -- I'm still no scientist!] To move a
certain vehicle a certain distance takes a certain amount of work.
Power is how fast that work can be done. A toddler can get it done
if he has low enough gearing, but it would take a very long time.
That's the concept behind getting The Two Ton Tricycle up to the
top of Dead Man's Drop -- it takes a loooooong time. :lol:
That help any?

Oh, notice where that scientific info referred to an "exhausted human"?
I know something about that. One needs to pace onself. (Remember
the lady who crawled on her bloody knees across the finish line in
the Olympic Marathon?!) At the Klamath Falls KSR this year, I climbed
a big hill on Pear County Chopper and completely wore myself out.
At the top I had to lie down. Somebody handed my a Snickers bar
for energy. I struggled to pull the wrapper off. Then I just barely
managed to take a bite. Then, for a little while, I was seriously
worried that I would choke to death, because I lacked the energy
to chew. That's exhausted energy! But I'm glad I tested my limit.
Do pace yourselves.
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work done

Postby RouseMouse » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:44 pm

I moved my old 48 Chevy truck into my back yard with the engines hand crank , but it was moving at about a half mile per hour ...
and I lifted my house even slower..
horse power is work (mass x distance) over time so you can move a pound real quick or a ton very slowly and still do the same work , horse power wise..

so as elliot was saying you can move it, but you may need to fear it way down so it may not be very fast ...

rumor has it that Hobart Brown (kinetics founder) never finished a challenge in his huge vehicle, but then it took us 4 years to finish the course the first time.

06 was our sixth year for Burningman and we have brought our older Boulder Co. Kinetics machine for the first 4 years, it needs attention before bringing it back again, (brakes are a good thing!) .

our kinetics site is
http://www.DorrelleanMotors.com
and our camp site ( which has grown from us original kineticists ) is
http://www.Contraptionists.com

see you on the playa!
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:31 pm

...by gearing down even more than usual you can carry alot more weight. My BioTrak bicycle tank last year weighed 800-1000 lbs yet 1 person in 1st gear could easily move it (at around 1/2mph). I kept it in 7th gear most of the time, that felt about right (and speeded it up to about 1mph).

My original analysis went something like this; on a mountain bike, a 200lb adult rider can move 25mph. So a 1000lb load should move at 5mph. From experience I would estimate losses for a tracked vehicle to be ~50%, wheeled vehicles do not have the same issue.

So, if you have a 2000lb art car, 2 bicycles should be able to move it if geared properly. 4 bicycles should allow you to add a few passengers. 6 would allow for easier pedalling. Of course, adding pedal power to a car is crazy, since you have alot of extra weight that is not needed in a car - building a custom frame of lighter steel would be better.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:48 am

dragonfly Jafe wrote:...by gearing down even more than usual you can carry alot more weight. My BioTrak bicycle tank last year weighed 800-1000 lbs yet 1 person in 1st gear could easily move it (at around 1/2mph). I kept it in 7th gear most of the time, that felt about right (and speeded it up to about 1mph).

My original analysis went something like this; on a mountain bike, a 200lb adult rider can move 25mph. So a 1000lb load should move at 5mph. From experience I would estimate losses for a tracked vehicle to be ~50%, wheeled vehicles do not have the same issue.

So, if you have a 2000lb art car, 2 bicycles should be able to move it if geared properly. 4 bicycles should allow you to add a few passengers. 6 would allow for easier pedalling. Of course, adding pedal power to a car is crazy, since you have alot of extra weight that is not needed in a car - building a custom frame of lighter steel would be better.


I keep thinking of learning how to smith Carbon Fiber - that stuff is strong and light. Seems a lot like Fiberglass, costs more for mat and resin, but structurally stronger! But the potential for weiht saving is really good. Could go Aluminum tubing as well, same prob, it's not cheap, but is light and strong.

The key is to make it light enough but still have the mechanical strength and bracing to take all the torsional loads imposed by all the moment generated by all the mechanicals (eg one of the probs with the jackshaft on the tank last year). As your torque is increased at the pedal, it increases respective to the gearing. I keep thinking of a Pinzgauer or Unimog - small motors, but geared to hell, and a really beefy drivetrain to take the loads.

I had the experience of pedaling a 2 bike rickshaw at SF decomp. With one person on it it was so-so, but with 2 it was damn heavy. The major prob, tho, was the torque needed to drive it caused both the handlebars and seat to displace when used as a brace. With better gearing (maybe an intermediate stack or 2) it would have been a dream!!!
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Yep, gearing

Postby Elliot » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:31 pm

:D .
Hmmm... I'm thinking that we might want to have some sort of
demonstration rig to show people how gearing works.
I have a piece of video of a stationary kinetic sculpture where a small
electric motor drives a series of reductions, and at the end the
mechanism pushes against an immovable object. Apparently, this
machine runs for quite a while before all the play is taken up and all
the flexing is done and the motor is forced to stop. Who wants to build
a little hand cranked mechanism to serve this purpose?

Now;
Most likely, the KSR Kamp will be located next to the Kaz Bus -- the
party bus with the exotic buildings painted on plywood on the side --
since several KSR'ers are already involved with the KazBus. The KazBus
was rather close to the loud "techno" end of the city in 2006 (2:20 & D),
and I believe this will be remedied in 2007. [Do we have to put up with
the tyrrany of the thump, thump?!] An other good match would be the
ByB bicycle repair camp, where we also have friends.
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Postby StevenGoodman » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:33 am

Elliot,

I might be interesting in building something. But only if I can light it on fire in the middle of the demonstration. Or sooner if no one is watching...
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Postby Elliot » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:11 am

Hi Steven!

Terriffic! I imagine we can pour alcohol on a machine and burn that
off without harming the machine. Yeah, I know -- "abuse of alcohol"!
Maybe incorporate some small cups to pour the fuel in on various
segments of the machine.
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Postby Elliot » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:10 pm

:D
Hey RouseMouse! You guys do some serious Kinetic Sculpture Racing!

A few years ago, I contacted the radio station and we tried to find
sponsorship to bring The Two Ton Tricycle to the Boulder race. Alas,
all we could come up with was a couple hundred bucks.

But now there are several of us who want to go, and we have a school
bus as Team Transporter. So it may happen.

And you are right that it is OK to "fail" on your first try in a KSR. And the
second,.... When I first entered the Two Ton Tricycle in the Sacramento
race, I worked on it until half hour before the start. The we failed the
brake test and almost ran over the Mayor and the bongo-drum band.
So we took the start for the cameras only and trailered Two Ton to the
finish line picnic for static display. And we won Peoples Choice.

We really "need" to get together on the Playa next year. I saw your
camp, but everybody seemed to be out and about.

Perhaps we can arrange to be next door to each other?

For The Glory!
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:52 pm

capjbadger wrote:Here's what i found via googling a bit... (I have no idea why I didn't just do this before asking.. lol)


happen to remember the source?
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Postby Bob » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:13 pm

Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby spectabillis » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:43 am

Elliot wrote: This is one of the many things that makes KSR so much fun-- people from all walks of life participate equally at whatever level they happen to be competent.


speaking of, anyone hear from dragonflyjafe recently? he might be up for this elliot, but he's not posted in a while.
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Postby Elliot » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:59 am

Jafe posted here three weeks ago. He'll be around one way or another,
no doubt. He is a fabulously skilled fabricator, indeed!

As for the source of the Human Power data, try the International Human
Power Vehicle Association. www.ihpva.org

Happy Turkey Day!
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Postby Elliot » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:16 am

Now, here is a LESS SKILLED Human Power Kontraption that I built for
Camp Herring. :wink: They sent me a drawing of what they wanted,
and I built it -- against my "better" judgement. It worked suprisingly well.
I'm posting this in response to the piano picture a couple of posts up --
same idea; bicycles minus front wheels pushing a platform with a
passenger on it. Life is good!

Image

Image
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Postby spectabillis » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:58 am

Elliot wrote:Jafe posted here three weeks ago. He'll be around one way or another,


my bad, i cant believe i missed his above post, and thanks for the source.
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Postby EspressoDude » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:30 am

A whole lot of neat ideas and machines!

One thing to watch out about gearing is friction.

In a lot of systems( like worm gears) a HUGE percentage of the input horsepower is eaten up by friction. It is possible to create so much friction in the gear system, belts, pulleys, chains and sprockets that only 10 - 20% of the power at the pedals actually gets to the ground.
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Postby Elliot » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:46 am

Good point, Dude, and we have some examples of that in the sport. The
pictured Kontraption is based on a riding lawn mower, with a snoot-load
of bicycle parts added. It has something like 3000 possible gear
combinations, but it is hopelessly slow no matter what gear you use.

But I believe V belts are the worst. I have a 14 foot tall decorative Ferris
Wheel (Christmas display) that is powered by a 1/4 HP electric motor.
The power is transmitted thru three V belts. If I tighten the belts just a
little bit too much, it won't go at all. So don't try using V belts on a Kinetic
Kontraption.

Image
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Postby capjbadger » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:37 pm

spectabillis wrote:
capjbadger wrote:Here's what i found via googling a bit... (I have no idea why I didn't just do this before asking.. lol)


happen to remember the source?


Sorry, I don't recall.
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Postby Elliot » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:54 pm

Capjbadger: Your avatar is still my all time favorite avatar! And your
signature rant is pretty good too.

Those IHPVA guys are a mighty sophisticated bunch; highly scientific.
They have several branches, such as the IHPV BOATS section, where
you will find several KSR guys. (Ours being an amphibious
sport/hobby/art-form/behavioral-disorder).

Happy Turkey Day, everyone!
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