My first festival ever!

Re: My first festival ever!

Postby junglesmacks » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:53 am

wh..sh wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:Knock yourself out with all that. I'm hanging with Elmo and Doogie. Don't hate.


junglesmacks!!!!!!!!!!!

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RY RUV ROO!


"Real music" is the sound of the flying tackle and subsequent virtual face licking that I'm doing to you right now. :D



Anyone that tries to tell anyone else what "real music" is has their head firmly implanted up their own ass. Again.. good luck with all that. You're just digging deeper, kiddo.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:18 am

Bach was an organist and composer as well as a harpsichordist... And it is only as a composer we know him. There are no recordings of him at any keyboard. We don't even know exactly how that Klavier was tempered.

I just don't like the computerized sounds. That "scratch" or "scrap" or "fuzz" or whatever the hell you call it. I mentioned one of the songs that makes we wanna dance (on another social networking site) and got counter examples, and I couldn't listen to most of them. I like the sounds of accordions, xylophones, marimbas, slide guitar, banjo, fiddle (as opposed to violin), some woodwinds, and I don't know w hat else. Oh, the bass trombone that Limpopo uses. And so, I love a whole lot of music that has one or more of these elements, and a bunch of other music besides.

And I'd hate edm a whole lot less if I didn't hear it all the time. Okay, I'd maybe hate it the same, but I'd feel less resentful.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby 5280MeV » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:47 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Bach was an organist and composer as well as a harpsichordist... And it is only as a composer we know him. There are no recordings of him at any keyboard. We don't even know exactly how that Klavier was tempered.


Good point. But I think that this really gets to the heart of the issue. We say Bach is a great musician. We don't know exactly with what sort of feeling he lifted his fingertips off the keys. We have a bunch of dots on a page indicating which note to play at what interval - and it is effectively completely digital. If we were left with a recording of a computer playing the Goldberg Variations, our collective opinion of Bach would be no different - it is in the position of those notes that he expresses himself.

Counterpoint is rigidly formulaic. I think of it as an algebra. I have Fux's Study of Counterpoint: From Johann Joseph Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum, I have not studied it - but I have dabbled with it - and the rules appear to be no different than any other mathematical system.

The fugue itself is a very formulaic genre. I have actually thought of writing a computer program to autogenerate fugues, but it is one of those things that I don't really quite have the drive to do. One could even go so far to write a neural network to listen to fugues, train it on Bach and some other masters, and have it select the "best" of the random lot.

My point is that even though one can just learn the formula, download ACID Pro 7, and generate some womp womp womp, one can also appropriate formulas and cliches to mass produce music in any genre.

theCryptofishist wrote:I just don't like the computerized sounds.


This I respect.

theCryptofishist wrote:And I'd hate edm a whole lot less if I didn't hear it all the time.


This I respect tremendously.

theCryptofishist wrote:Okay, I'd maybe hate it the same, but I'd feel less resentful.


Also this.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby junglesmacks » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:32 pm

The only part that I "respect" is that she said "I don't like" instead of "It's not real music."




Not that I don't "respect" what anyone has to say or their right to say it. I just don't find the poster above you to be earth shattering in said statements.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby NessaZee » Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:09 pm

Welcome to the eplaya forums. *waves*

new_world_order wrote:... after checking all the forums I can't find how to volunteer. I was also wondering that if you volunteer is it possible to get a cheaper BM ticket?

I think you can volunteer with some theme camps to get a discounted entrance ticket. the volunteer commitment may require you to either come early to set up or stay late to tear down/clean up (or both). If you have the time and want a cheaper ticket this is the way to go.


For a possible volunteer opportunity, try contacting piper(at)distriktcamp(dot)org. cool camp, you'll LOVE it there.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:10 pm

5280MeV wrote:
new_world_order wrote:Electronic pisses me off; being a musician, it is a cop out to say that mixing random sounds to a beat suddenly makes you a musician. To me, musicianship takes skill and a life time of practice at mastering not only an instrument and the technique, but the theory of why things sound pleasing to the ears. I can sit at home and make electronic shit on my lap top in two seconds. Playing my harmonica, the piano or guitar takes so much more than clicking buttons of sounds that you are not actually producing with your body.


It would really be cool if you would consider bringing either a cheap harmonica or guitar or both - but not your best instruments.

As much as I prefer electronic music, there is really not enough other music on the playa - and hearing a harmonica out in the deep playa is really pretty cool. You have probably read enough to know that this is nothing at all like a summer music festival, it isn't even about music, unless that is what you want. But you are the performer, so if you are good at the harmonica, it would be a really great gift to get to hear it.

I don't mind people hating electronic. My wife hates a lot of the music I listen to - because it gives her a headache. I think that this is a perfectly appropriate and fully understandable criticism, who wants a headache? It makes me want to move, it sets my mind on fire. There are a lot of basic patterns - a kick drum explicitly thumping out 4-4 time at 135 beats per minute with a bit of swing, or the celebrated amen break, that work on a subconscious level. Some people hear only these repetitive forms, and the rest of the piece just dissolves into random sounds. For me, these basic dance patterns need to be there in order to act as a sort of ignition. With them in place, the rest of the piece really starts to work on my mind. If the piece is not very good, then the beats become boring and repetitive. When the entire piece is interesting - when it works - everything is on fire. Although I greatly enjoy "regular" music, for example Monday I am seeing a concert and lecture on Thelonious Monk at the local University, none of this music provides the explosive power that I get from sequenced combinations of generated waveforms.

I find it interesting that you brought up Bach - a harpsichordist - in this thread, after saying the following about instrumental technique, "Playing my harmonica, the piano or guitar takes so much more than clicking buttons of sounds that you are not actually producing with your body."

On the harpsichord, you are basically clicking a button. There is zero dynamic control. You depress the key, and either the plectrum plucks the string or it does not. The produced sound is entirely disconnected from the motion of the body. It does matter when you lift your finger, as the legato is of prime importance. But this is the same as depressing the left mouse button and letting go!

I do believe that connecting the motion of the body to the dynamic of the produced note allows for a degree of improvisation and expression that is lost when notes are sequenced or played with an instrument that does not accept nuance. However, removing one degree of freedom does not remove all capacity for expression and technique. I could play Bach's fugues through a computer, and Bach's genius and humanity would shine through the sequence of the notes.

Skrillex and Deadmau5 are not representative of electronic music as a whole. Their live play style should not be taken as an indication that electronic artists cannot play real instruments. One can learn to barf out boring techno in a month with ACID Pro 7, but a set of four teenagers can learn to form a crappy garage band by spending six months with their instruments. Six months or one month is really immaterial, I agree that to make great music typically takes years of work - an order of magnitude more time than required for proficiency with this or that instrument.

I therefore consider your criticism to be unfair, and far more objectionable than someone simply hating electronic dance music. It is one thing to say that it is bangy and repetitive, it is another to make a broad declaration about what is or is not art and representative of the human spirit.

As for the ability to play real instruments:


Bravo! I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord. Very true about the technique of the harpsichord. It was a primitive piano and slightly more practical than a pipe organ.

However, I am just one man with one opinion...9/10 people would disagree with me and probably punch me in the face for my opinion. Let 'em.

Let the good times roll.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:11 pm

junglesmacks wrote:The only part that I "respect" is that she said "I don't like" instead of "It's not real music."




Not that I don't "respect" what anyone has to say or their right to say it. I just don't find the poster above you to be earth shattering in said statements.


It isn't. :/
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:14 pm

NessaZee wrote:Welcome to the eplaya forums. *waves*

new_world_order wrote:... after checking all the forums I can't find how to volunteer. I was also wondering that if you volunteer is it possible to get a cheaper BM ticket?

I think you can volunteer with some theme camps to get a discounted entrance ticket. the volunteer commitment may require you to either come early to set up or stay late to tear down/clean up (or both). If you have the time and want a cheaper ticket this is the way to go.


For a possible volunteer opportunity, try contacting piper(at)distriktcamp(dot)org. cool camp, you'll LOVE it there.


Thank you so much! Are you going to be doing this?
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:15 pm

5280MeV wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:Bach was an organist and composer as well as a harpsichordist... And it is only as a composer we know him. There are no recordings of him at any keyboard. We don't even know exactly how that Klavier was tempered.


Good point. But I think that this really gets to the heart of the issue. We say Bach is a great musician. We don't know exactly with what sort of feeling he lifted his fingertips off the keys. We have a bunch of dots on a page indicating which note to play at what interval - and it is effectively completely digital. If we were left with a recording of a computer playing the Goldberg Variations, our collective opinion of Bach would be no different - it is in the position of those notes that he expresses himself.

Counterpoint is rigidly formulaic. I think of it as an algebra. I have Fux's Study of Counterpoint: From Johann Joseph Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum, I have not studied it - but I have dabbled with it - and the rules appear to be no different than any other mathematical system.

The fugue itself is a very formulaic genre. I have actually thought of writing a computer program to autogenerate fugues, but it is one of those things that I don't really quite have the drive to do. One could even go so far to write a neural network to listen to fugues, train it on Bach and some other masters, and have it select the "best" of the random lot.

My point is that even though one can just learn the formula, download ACID Pro 7, and generate some womp womp womp, one can also appropriate formulas and cliches to mass produce music in any genre.

theCryptofishist wrote:I just don't like the computerized sounds.


This I respect.

theCryptofishist wrote:And I'd hate edm a whole lot less if I didn't hear it all the time.


This I respect tremendously.

theCryptofishist wrote:Okay, I'd maybe hate it the same, but I'd feel less resentful.


Also this.


Somewhat agreed. Electronic just isn't quite there...YET
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby knowmad » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:49 pm

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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:32 pm

new_world_order wrote:
I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord.



you have a lot to learn.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby gaminwench » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:44 pm

classical musician, educator, renaissance specialist...
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:54 pm

i thought burning man was just a buncha vicks vaporub buying pacifier sucking teenagers tripping on LSD listening to trance music...




you dont mean to say theres people there who know stuff?!!?!?

my word.... classical musicians... educators... 'specialists' at burning man!!!

thatll be the day!
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby Eric » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:58 pm

lemur wrote:
new_world_order wrote:
I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord.



you have a lot to learn.


Yeah, someone who has admitted they have never been sure has a lot of opinions on who "we" are.

If NWO makes it to the event, and does it with an open mind, he will probably have the time of his life. From what I'm getting by reading his posts- not so much.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:05 pm

NessaZee wrote:Welcome to the eplaya forums. *waves*

new_world_order wrote:... after checking all the forums I can't find how to volunteer. I was also wondering that if you volunteer is it possible to get a cheaper BM ticket?

I think you can volunteer with some theme camps to get a discounted entrance ticket. the volunteer commitment may require you to either come early to set up or stay late to tear down/clean up (or both). If you have the time and want a cheaper ticket this is the way to go.


For a possible volunteer opportunity, try contacting piper(at)distriktcamp(dot)org. cool camp, you'll LOVE it there.

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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby 48_love » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:47 pm

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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:22 pm

this thread burns my bottom.............the more i think of it the more i hope NWO is joking

it pains me to the core....

I think we have all seen people misunderstand what this event is before going there themselves..

I think i would rather people believe it is a drug fueled atheist sex orgy than have someone be this misunderstood to be able to think/say this:

new_world_order wrote:Bravo! I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord. .


Im not sure if this says more about NWO's misunderstanding of the event or more about NWO as a person... either way it is stuck in my brain.



I would have to say that of all places and things one could do, including conferences and symposiums.. youre more likely to find more experts in their field, more classically trained musicians, phd's, engineers, rocket scientists, doctors, teachers, veterans, artists at the forefront of their medium, skilled craftsman, artisans, thinkers.. do'ers.. creators.. and a myriad of other people who are at the top of their game at burning man than any other place i have ever been.

and you wont only find these people hanging out spectating. they are doing. they are creating, they are giving us more than their opinion.

it pains me to think that anyone, even one person, can miss out on this fact... even if theyve never been before.


burning man isnt a fricken "festival" in the common sense... if one shows up one will learn about it..


the idea that anyone would be so pompous as to think that someone knowing about Bach or a harpsichord is a rarity in this community, or any other is nearly disgusting to me. (surely you realize plenty of americans, and people from the 20+ other nations who are part of this community learn about this man and those instruments in grammar school). Get over yourself!

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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby junglesmacks » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:28 pm

lemur wrote:
new_world_order wrote:
I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord.



you have a lot to learn.




No. Shit.


I can't even enter this thread anymore. I've seen some kooks surface on here from time to time but this guy seems to be already placing in the top 3 already.. and in an intro thread no less.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby teardropper » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:15 pm

lemur wrote:I think i would rather people believe it is a drug fueled atheist sex orgy


Damn. All this time... I thought I was just lookin' in the wrong places...
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby wh..sh » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:35 pm

new_world_order wrote:Bravo! I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord. .


LOL! Man!! kids say the darnest things.

Music is any agreeable (pleasing and harmonious) sounds. One person certainly cannot define it for the rest.
I am no musician and I am sure I won't fit in any of your description of "people who would like classical music". And this might be a shock to you, but I enjoy Bach, Brahms, Dvorak and such. And the funny thing is I am moved by Franz von Vecsey just as much as I am amazed by Skillex.

Atleast for me, music is very mood dependent. That's why I could never listen to just one kind of music.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby NessaZee » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:40 pm

new_world_order wrote:
NessaZee wrote:Welcome to the eplaya forums. *waves*

new_world_order wrote:... after checking all the forums I can't find how to volunteer. I was also wondering that if you volunteer is it possible to get a cheaper BM ticket?

I think you can volunteer with some theme camps to get a discounted entrance ticket. the volunteer commitment may require you to either come early to set up or stay late to tear down/clean up (or both). If you have the time and want a cheaper ticket this is the way to go.


For a possible volunteer opportunity, try contacting piper(at)distriktcamp(dot)org. cool camp, you'll LOVE it there.


Thank you so much! Are you going to be doing this?


hehe, you're welcome.
....and I don't think so, I have yet to commit to even making the trip to BRC in 2012 :)
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby gaminwench » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:22 pm

I am currently listening to a recording of a counter tenor (burner) performing a Baroque opera; the period instruments, played by friends/colleagues/someburners, are actually in tune, the musicality is beautiful...
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:19 pm

Eric wrote:
lemur wrote:
new_world_order wrote:
I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord.



you have a lot to learn.


Yeah, someone who has admitted they have never been sure has a lot of opinions on who "we" are.

If NWO makes it to the event, and does it with an open mind, he will probably have the time of his life. From what I'm getting by reading his posts- not so much.


that is so contradictory. you are saying that because I don't know people at the festival means I don't know who "we" are. You are just one person man. You don't speak for the other thousands of people. Anyway, the point is, how can you say you "know" me by the fact that I have an opinion about electronic noise? Sooooo judgemental you are.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:20 pm

gaminwench wrote:I am currently listening to a recording of a counter tenor (burner) performing a Baroque opera; the period instruments, played by friends/colleagues/someburners, are actually in tune, the musicality is beautiful...


I love baroque. I love opera. I've never heard baroque opera?!? What are these wonderous sounds you have not introduced me to???!!!
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:21 pm

wh..sh wrote:
new_world_order wrote:Bravo! I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord. .


LOL! Man!! kids say the darnest things.

Music is any agreeable (pleasing and harmonious) sounds. One person certainly cannot define it for the rest.
I am no musician and I am sure I won't fit in any of your description of "people who would like classical music". And this might be a shock to you, but I enjoy Bach, Brahms, Dvorak and such. And the funny thing is I am moved by Franz von Vecsey just as much as I am amazed by Skillex.

Atleast for me, music is very mood dependent. That's why I could never listen to just one kind of music.


Agreed. I don't think I listen to any one style/artist exclusively because I just feel like it (at least when I am alone).
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:24 pm

lemur wrote:this thread burns my bottom.............the more i think of it the more i hope NWO is joking

it pains me to the core....

I think we have all seen people misunderstand what this event is before going there themselves..

I think i would rather people believe it is a drug fueled atheist sex orgy than have someone be this misunderstood to be able to think/say this:

new_world_order wrote:Bravo! I wouldn't even fathom that someone from a festival like this would even know who Bach was, let alone a harpsichord. .


Im not sure if this says more about NWO's misunderstanding of the event or more about NWO as a person... either way it is stuck in my brain.



I would have to say that of all places and things one could do, including conferences and symposiums.. youre more likely to find more experts in their field, more classically trained musicians, phd's, engineers, rocket scientists, doctors, teachers, veterans, artists at the forefront of their medium, skilled craftsman, artisans, thinkers.. do'ers.. creators.. and a myriad of other people who are at the top of their game at burning man than any other place i have ever been.

and you wont only find these people hanging out spectating. they are doing. they are creating, they are giving us more than their opinion.

it pains me to think that anyone, even one person, can miss out on this fact... even if theyve never been before.


burning man isnt a fricken "festival" in the common sense... if one shows up one will learn about it..


the idea that anyone would be so pompous as to think that someone knowing about Bach or a harpsichord is a rarity in this community, or any other is nearly disgusting to me. (surely you realize plenty of americans, and people from the 20+ other nations who are part of this community learn about this man and those instruments in grammar school). Get over yourself!

"Go into it and see it.... And seeing means without prejudice. Seeing means that you don't condemn fear as bad from the very beginning. Who knows? it is not bad-who knows that it is? The explorer has to remain open to all the possibilities; he cannot afford a closed mind. A closed mind and exploration don't go together. He will go into it. If it brings suffering and pain, he will suffer the pain but he will go into it. Trembling, hesitant, but he will go into it: "It is my territory, I have to know what it is. Maybe it is carrying some Treasure for me? Maybe the fear is only there to protect the treasure.""


???your big words just confuse me. not because I don't know what they are, but because you just don't make any sense. you completely miss understand me at what I say and you think I am being sarcastic and "ignorant". You don't know me BITCH!
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby new_world_order » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:28 pm

okay i am putting this TO REST once and for all...so much hate mail over an OPINION of ONE MAN!!! I mean what the fuck is wrong with you people? I am just trying to introduce myself and socialize within the forum.

Electronic (music) is shit.
Everything else is good.

It's my opinion. I respect you like electronic shit. Respect or fuck off. :D :D :D
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby NessaZee » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:39 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
NessaZee wrote:Welcome to the eplaya forums. *waves*

new_world_order wrote:... after checking all the forums I can't find how to volunteer. I was also wondering that if you volunteer is it possible to get a cheaper BM ticket?

I think you can volunteer with some theme camps to get a discounted entrance ticket. the volunteer commitment may require you to either come early to set up or stay late to tear down/clean up (or both). If you have the time and want a cheaper ticket this is the way to go.


For a possible volunteer opportunity, try contacting piper(at)distriktcamp(dot)org. cool camp, you'll LOVE it there.

Positively, absolutely Not True. The one possible perk, of placed theme camps only, is the early entry pass. And those are not given out so very freely by the llc, and within theme camps they go to those who are capable of the hard work of setting up the camp so it's there when the gates open, and who have a proven track record with the camp in question so they can be trusted. Theme campers buy their own tickets, and buy the camp infrastructure. In the Booby Bar's case there was a certain expected amount of booze we were expected to bring. Some theme campers get staff tickets--by working at the llc department as well as with the theme camp.
Nessa, new-world-order, anyone one else reading this--there aren't any short cuts. This is all the hard way. You put your cash, your work, your heart on the line. Many of us find it worth it, but this is not a walk in the park.


that's cool...I wasn't sure about theme camps, so thanks for verifying.

The reason I thought it might be possible is because my ticket was discounted the first year I went. I volunteered with the crew who contributed some sound for the Do Lab/El Cirque camp. Our crew received a number of discounted tickets and subsidized travel for our involvement.

Since then, I've bought my own ticket, made my own way and still volunteered my time. Definitely worth it, and my heart feels damn good :)
Last edited by NessaZee on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
~Om-Nom-Nom~~simplicity is potent~~handjob gallery~~the best is yet to come~
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby Sham » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:42 pm

Do I have to separate you two and have you both miss recess?

First, Bach is a high end Mercedes Benz. Second, Burning Man is a gathering of some of the most interesting and creative minds on this planet. There are so many misconceptions, that it's laughable. I don't even bother to correct people anymore. I have spent the better part of my life wondering why people were so dull and why there was so little creativity in this world. This annual gathering of 50,000+ people is where these minds congregate for their annual "howl at the moon".

NWO, until you actually attend for the first time, you must reserve comment on that subject. You would simply be way off base otherwise.
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Re: My first festival ever!

Postby Eric » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:58 pm

new_world_order wrote:???your big words just confuse me. not because I don't know what they are, but because you just don't make any sense. you completely miss understand me at what I say and you think I am being sarcastic and "ignorant". You don't know me BITCH!


You are correct- we don't know you. You could be the most interesting and wonderful person in real life, yet your online representation is combative, irritable, ignorant of the people who attend the event and the event itself and borderline trollish.

The fact you seem to be missing is that almost everyone who posts on this board for more than a few months is only 1-2 degrees of separation from each other; if we don't know someone directly we almost always know someone who does know them. We tend to be die-hards about Burning Man, and for the most part we're not anonymous handles like the rest of the internet; people here tend to speak in their real voices because people know the "real them".

Pretty much everyone gets a chance at Burning Man, the same generally applies on this board. You might want to take a breath, do some studying on the event to make yourself more familiar with it and come back again.

You can always ignore this & assume I'm attacking you, but I'm not. Growth is good, and in the years I've been on this board & going to Burning Man I've seen a lot of preconceived notions disappear (including some of my own).
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