Commerce - questions, violations, and reporting them

Discuss the policies of ePlaya here.

Postby Playa-Sod » Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:20 am

Hey Chai, Yeah, you're right, it maybe off the playa, but with the focus on BM as a mindset more than merely an event I was prompted to insert it here. Bascially, selling posters and T-Shirts is pretty cheesey and smacks of a rolling stones concert. Where's the difference between that and having Pepsi sponsor the burn? It would seem less of a money grab if BMorg sold stuff that allowed peeps to make, paint, embroider their own designs etc, (probably wishful thinking)

This will probably provoke a slap on the wrist for getting evening more off topic (come on Spec, let us meander a bit) but I checked out the http://www.savebrc.org on your signature. There have been many commercially orientated movies made about BM. Is it the fact that this one would be on TV that makes it such a violation?
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:12 pm

Playa-Sod wrote:... This will probably provoke a slap on the wrist for getting evening more off topic (come on Spec, let us meander a bit) ...
No slap, but why not continue it in viewtopic.php?t=10142&highlight= ?
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Postby spectabillis » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:08 pm

viewtopic.php?p=184912&highlight=#184912

Ok, meager is also Christ. This person has posted blatent commerce on several occasions despite many unanswered PM's. They have not even replied or taken the time to respond on the board.

The following thress sites have been advertised under this account - http://www.bestrxpills.com http://www.checkproxy.net/ http://www.socksproxylist.com/

Its an obvious violation, and if I did not know better, intentional. I dont know exactly if this is done through some sort of bb code posting bot or whatever... but an IP ban would not work because this person is not exactly dumb, they post from different IP's that seem to be sources of random accounts not difficult to set up, from sites around the world.

Sources from posting -
chat.vietkiem.com wpc1213.amenworld.com vbn.0012377.lodgenet.net 66.83.100.42.nw.nuvox.net mail.ieo.it ns.km10355.keymachine.de

I guess I could go through the effort of tracing down the dns entries of the companies being advertised, and try tracking down contacts. The problem is I dont think that could get anywhere.

First, anyone have any objections to deleting both user accounts Christ and meager? I want some feedback, after all, this is one of the first times a user account will be locked/deleted and I dont want it to go un-noticed, unchecked, and by the general community of this board - unknown.

Second, anyone have any insights on how to block this since an IP source block will not work?
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Postby Kinetic IV » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:30 pm

Objections? Heck no. In fact just seeing someone propose upholding even one of the basic rules is cause to sing...I'll dedicate this verse to Meager.....

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye

Intentional? You even need to suggest that?
So it's how many weeks before the account gets locked again?
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Postby spectabillis » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:48 pm

Whenever emily can get to it, right now she is travelling around the country.

Ed: but I still want to hear what everyone thinks, or at least to know whats going on.

Ed2: and there are other things planned, but I was waiting on her clearing up the mis-posts in this main Policy topic before getting to them since it helps in the feedback loop. Also the reason I seem heavy handed at times when people post off-topic in them.
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Postby blueniteowl » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:31 pm

I say deleting the account is more than appropriate.
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Postby EvilDustBooger » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:31 am

I don`t think any reasonable person on this board would object
to a "no tolerance" policy toward spammers....period.
If you take a crap on the board like this idiot is doing...snuff the account
at first sighting.

Surely no one is clicking the links....
or has any interest in them... other than trying to track down the loser....

my 2 cents....
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Postby geekster » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:23 pm

socksproxylist.com fucker is back again

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?p=185774#185774

oh, and this one looks like it's from christ with a lower case "c"

blast 'em
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Postby Chai Guy » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:27 pm

blasted.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:34 am

Holy cow! Someone did something! Quick, call 911. I'm in shock! Unbelievable!

Seriously, thank you Chai for cleaning up some community trash.
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Postby Chai Guy » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:07 am

Just FYI, I don't have access to change everything everywhere only certain folders, so I do what I can, especially when it's a no-brainer spam-bot post like that.
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:44 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Holy cow! Someone did something! Quick, call 911. I'm in shock! Unbelievable!


So what exactly is the problem?

I guess I did not explain that Emily is away and cant do something about it right now? Hmmm... thought I did.
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Postby Chai Guy » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:11 pm

I just went in and deleted the text in the post and explained why.
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Postby Sensei » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:27 pm

Hmmm... under 'Year Round Connections' - 'Open Discussion' is the thread "A short film to watch'... Click on the link and you get a chance to buy DVD's.

What say you guys?
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Postby spectabillis » Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:22 pm

I just looked at that. Well, not the video footage but just to see what the site was. It looks like a photobucket or flickr type site where anyone can sign up and post thier content. As an addition, whatever you see or watch can be ordered - delivered on a DVD.

I guess this would be similar to a pront account on flickr? The ability to order high-resolution quality prints from whatever images you see?
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Postby spectabillis » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:00 am

Just a quick update: meager aka christ has been locked.

Thanks Emily!
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Postby Sensei » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:37 pm

Thanks, Spectabillis. I knee-jerked when I saw that bit about DVD's for sale.

I'll sit back down now.
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Postby spectabillis » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:23 pm

No worries, 'cause I am not even sure I understand what that site is all about.
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:18 am

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Postby emily sparkle » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:35 am

got 'em. we don't need teeth whitener systems! just smile into the playa dust....
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:18 am

Is this a commerce violation?
Simon's real sig line?

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Postby Isotopia » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:25 am

Nah, that's what's known as a slippery slope.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:42 pm

Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
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Postby Kinetic IV » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:01 pm



Wow, someone else noticed! I sent the admins comments on that sort of thing months ago. It's usually one new account like that per day and on some days I've seen up to 4 like that. Drugs, sex sites, you name it they have links to it. But what can be done? Until they post or break the rules...and there is no rule covering what goes in profiles....it doesn't look like there's much to be done.
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Postby Chai Guy » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:20 pm

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Postby emily sparkle » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:31 am

Chai Guy wrote:http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?p=206977#206977

blatant spam, please delete.


got it! thanks.
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A place to send some of ePlaya's would-be commerce

Postby Traveller » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:56 am

A little practical philosophy: Some things are just destined to be, because they need to be. Somebody should provide them with a legitimate outlet, because otherwise they will seek an illegitimate outlet with disruptive consequences.

A few years later, this topic comes up again. The ePlaya staff never did establish a commercial section, but I've set up a commerce section on my own board and invited people to use it. It's a calculated risk, an attempt to jumpstart a new forum by providing something that I feel has been long needed, at the risk of attracting people who really are spammers.

What is appropriate commerce in a Burning Man context? At the burn itself, not much should qualify, I think - we're there to get away from business. We do our buying and selling before we go. Given my druthers, I'd like to see us do our bartering back at home, too, but given how far apart we live, that might not be practical. Life is about compromise.

What is appropriate commerce on ePlaya is clear: policy has been spelled out - don't do it, unless you want to get shot down a wormhole. What is appropriate commerce on unofficial Burning man forums is more up for grabs, so I'll gut my way through the issue here and you're invited to take my blatherings for what they're worth. Obviously, on my own board they make law, but whether or not they represent a good call on my part? Decide for yourself. It's an aesthetic choice, isn't it?

What I have in mind when I talk about the commerce I'd welcome on my own board in the appropriate section is best typified by somebody and something that got badly flamed on the old ePlaya: Funky Bunny's Sparkle Shack. The lady was making costumes specifically for people going to Burning Man, if I remember this correctly. This wasn't a serious business, certainly not something that was going to become her main source of livelihood. It was just her way of raising money to get to Burning Man, by selling something that would add to the look and the feel of the place.

Yeah, yeah, it's better if we make our own, no doubt about that, but there's a limit to what we have time to do. Some will claim that selling to burners just goes beyond the pale, that it is just unheard of. I disagree and point them in the direction of this page. There is, in fact, ample precedent, going back for a number of years. If professionals may sell to us, why not the occasional talented amateur?

Where I would start in defining acceptable commerce on one of my board would be in this question: "In this transaction, is the money a means to an end, the end being related to burning, or is the money the main point of the transaction". No doubt there are some companies that put out fine products of great use to burners, but I'd like to keep a little more of the personal touch by limiting access to my marketplace board to the people who do for the love of doing and are just charging to pay a few bills - our fellow amateurs. Funky Bunny, yes, Benetton, no. Not even if they do seriously branch out.

The other criterion is whether or not there is a serious and specific connection between the product or service advertised and what somebody is going to specifically be up to at a burn. If some burner is making his own cell phones, more power to him and best of luck with that, but please don't advertise that product on my board.

Last but not least, is the good or service being put to use in a creative or self-expressive context, ie. please don't advertise cheap insurance for burners on my board.

The question to me is "what is Burning". To me, a big part of it is like this. Go back to a time when you were still an undergrad and living in the dorms, and there you were stuck in this radically inclusive environment where you just had to take people as they were, because you guys were going to be stuck together for four years. It was a little early in your lives to be talking about your careers, or to be worried about office politics. Nobody had anything, but in a way, that was the beauty of the experience.

You did things with each other and for each other, not with that ill-at-ease feeling that comes from acting out of any kind of mercenary concern. There were no buyers or sellers, no employees or employers, just a group of people just being together for the pleasure of being, and being able to be on the inside exactly what they pretended to be on the outside. One did one's best at what one was doing, not because one would gain profit from doing so, but because one took pleasure in doing something well, and in the pleasure it was bringing one's friends in this experience you were having together. Was your motivation one of selfishness or altruism? A false dichotomy, because there was no seperating one person's share of that experience from the others - the pleasure of one was pleasure for all.

Then we got into the real world and we had more stuff, but we lost something along the way, that easy familiarity we had with each other when we had nothing, and we weren't just flitting shadows passing through each other's worlds, relating to each other for reasons ill-designed for putting us at ease. Burning to me is a recognition that there is something fundamentally wrong with that reality, and to escape from it however briefly, while we explore what life might be.

Yes, we make compromises. There is no escaping the fact that you are living in the here and now and whatever life may be someday, you have to deal with the practical realities of today, and that includes paying your bills. But we can at least keep those intrusions on our escape to a minimum, both in degree and in their psychological impact. Maybe XYZ Corporation could give me a better product at a lower price than the camp I just bought some LEDs from, but I'm not going to have a personal relationship with XYZ Corporation. I might just have one with that camp.

That's where I'm coming from on that one. Others may differ, and I'm sure a few of them will shortly, quite vocally if past performance is any indication. Why not, they're entitled. This is just how I see things.
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Postby Mozy bonz » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:57 am

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Postby Rockdad » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:36 am

Just a link to a porn site not a public service for burning Man just cover for porn site spam

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?p=226670#226670
Eplaya Bar Camp 2006 "What will it be"

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Postby Chai Guy » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:03 pm

It's a legitimate complaint regarding a legitimate issue. Someone else brought the same issue to my attention earlier this week in a pm.
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