Moderation discussion

Discuss the policies of ePlaya here.

Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:50 pm

Go read Panther's Thread over on the DMS-3P...oops I meant the 3Playa and you'll have all the backstory needed to understand that post. Everything's an ORG conspiracy and on and on it goes.
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Postby Don Muerto » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:25 pm

spectabillis wrote:
There is currently open policy discussion on the locking and/or deleting personal attack based threads. I dont see much feedback on it yet, none from CF.

I keep reading over this post and as much as I agree in principal with some of it, in practice it seems to fall short while over exaggerating in other things.

One example: the org has been generally off-hands with the board since moderators have been in place - the post is overstating thier influence.


Agreed, and I have no problem with the moderation of this or any board. The point I was aiming at was that "censorship" is not always negative despite the modern connotations of the word. Even CF acknowledges that some level of it is salubrious to board health; the culling of advert threads and crossposts being an obvious example. The trick, as always, is to find the right balance.

I have been watching the Personal Attacks thread with curiosity, but not wanting to jump in and overly polarize things. I am sure you can extrapolate my feelings on the subject from the offline conversations we have had. In a nutshell, I agree with Chai whose tenets are actually under the umbrella of illegal behavior already covered by the CG & TOS.

As for the love it or leave it attitude, that strikes me as a much more invidious form of censorship. I disagree that community health is best served by a harmony based on homogeneity, and that dissent, disagreement and friction should be quelled beneath normative opinion.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:44 pm

Offline conversations? There's much to be said for transparency especially when the decisions being made impact so many people. There's also a tradition of keeping the main arguments in post form (ie: the case studies thread is an example) so any debate can be reviewed later should things change. I hope that tradition is continued.
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Postby Don Muerto » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:56 pm

Yeah, offline conversations. Last I checked, people had lives outside of bulletin boards and blogs. Most do anyway.

In these lives people talk to real, living *other* people, and look askance at the strange guy with flecks of foam on his lips who runs up and shouts "TRANSPARENCY" at their window without knowing what the fuck they are talking about.

Besides, why are you clucking? I put a synopsis of my viewpoint in the sentence following the one containing "offline conversations", and Spect put his in the post prior to that.

It's pretty rich for you to talk about some imagined "tradition" of "keeping the main argument in post form" so that "any debate can be reviewed later should things change." Your whole M.O. is to carry on one-sided arguments via you blog(s) where erasure and resedimentation is the order of the day.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:27 pm

Don:
I have the right to speak here if the issue concerns me. And this concerns me along with many others.

The decisions being reviewed here will impact the entire community. It seems only fair that if the entire community is impacted, then the entire community should be able to see what's going on and have equal input into the process. Having backroom, under the table conversations smacks of exclusion, not inclusion and is simply not right. Not with decisions like this.

Beyond that in regards to your other comments...I have no comment. Just a big smile.
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Postby Don Muerto » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm

I have the right to speak here if the issue concerns me


Do you? Does CF have the right to speak about censorship as he sees it, or is that just "crap?"

Having backroom, under the table conversations smacks of exclusion, not inclusion and is simply not right. Not with decisions like this.


Those are the products of your faulty assumptions and overheated imagination, -keep them between your ears like a decent person or at the very least ask a question before jumping to conclusions. The "cabal" has not yet assimilated Spectabillis, as we rather like the number "5" and don't want to kill anyone to make room for him.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:30 pm

Go read Panther's thread on your board.. I felt CF's post was a thinly veiled swipe at the admins and authority in general coming from someone who's obviously still seething about his accounts being blocked over here.

As for the cabal....I have no further comments, just another big smile.
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Postby Don Muerto » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:53 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Go read Panther's thread on your board.. I felt CF's post was a thinly veiled swipe at the admins and authority in general coming from someone who's obviously still seething about his accounts being blocked over here.


So what? He should "have the right to speak here if the issue concerns" him. He's expressing an opinion, not violating the CG & TOS.
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Postby spectabillis » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:05 pm

Don Muerto wrote:I disagree that community health is best served by a harmony based on homogeneity, and that dissent, disagreement and friction should be quelled beneath normative opinion.


Homogeneity? We are still talking about a board based around bman, compared to the larger society around us I dont think that could even be possible (at least not with freaks like me). As far as differences and friction goes, absolutely, I think thats a natural effect. I guess being a moderator here is dangerously making me prone to thinking in the extreme cases of conflict since thats what I usually address.

Kinetic IV wrote:Having backroom, under the table conversations smacks of exclusion, not inclusion and is simply not right. Not with decisions like this.


If you are referring to my conversations with DM, thats not the case. When PM'ing people I sometimes try to get additional feedback which includes thier background belifes on what they think and post here.

It's an important thing for me, personally, because I have made the mistake of being distracted by how people can say something, instead of concentrating on what they are saying.
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Postby Don Muerto » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:16 pm

Homogeneity? We are still talking about a board based around bman, compared to the larger society around us I dont think that could even be possible (at least not with freaks like me). As far as differences and friction goes, absolutely, I think thats a natural effect. I guess being a moderator here is dangerously making me prone to thinking in the extreme cases of conflict since thats what I usually address.


You're kidding right? BM is more homogenous in many ways than the default society could ever hope to be.

Regardless, I was referring to censorship issues and the homogeniety that results if you silence, ban or quell any friction or disagreement. My attitude is that threads are like stations on a radio dial, if you don't like what is playing change the channel or turn it off completely. I've never understood the concept that people "can't escape" unpleasantness in an online forum.

[edited for phpBB quote format]
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Postby spectabillis » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:09 pm

Don Muerto wrote:You're kidding right? BM is more homogenous in many ways than the default society could ever hope to be.

Good point, in a cult sort of way.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:31 am

If you are referring to my conversations with DM, thats not the case. When PM'ing people I sometimes try to get additional feedback which includes thier background belifes on what they think and post here.


SB, that's the statement I was looking for. For someone coming along a couple of months from now and looking back at this, they'll understand what's going on with the side conversations. That's part of the transparency I was asking about.

As for the cabal, my opinions about it were not formed overnight. It's existance is beyond doubt. But with that I'm just going to smile and quiet down so this thread can do the work it needs to do.
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:44 am

Kinetic IV wrote:SB, that's the statement I was looking for. For someone coming along a couple of months from now and looking back at this, they'll understand what's going on with the side conversations. That's part of the transparency I was asking about.


what? definately confused me.
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Postby Don Muerto » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:36 am

He wanted you to go on record as saying you were not making decisions offline under the influence of a member of the 'cabal' whose existance (sic) is 'beyond doubt.'
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:47 am

Interesting read I came across with two relevant sections.

Shaping Online Social Behavior Through User Interface Design - Daniel Bayn, August, 2005

...Unfortunately, the internet is also plagued by a curious amount of anti-social behavior, far more than one usually encounters in face-to-face interactions. The common wisdom is that computer mediation strips away the subtle cues that regulate social behavior, but empirical tests have not supported this explanation (Coleman, Paternite, & Sherman, 1999).The
notion that anonymity is the sole cause of disinhibited behavior has also come into question (Davis, Farnham, & Jensen, 2002). Research related to a new theory of Deindividuation (aka. mob mentality) implies that everything from "flame wars" to "lurking" is the result of particular arrangements of social consequences (Guerin, 1999). Specifically, disinhibited behavior occurs when anonymity is combined with diffusion of
responsibility (ie. people are in large groups where individuals are not held responsible for collective actions). Conversely, people in groups where individuals are held accountable for their contributions display even less anti-social behavior than people acting alone. To the extent that such consequences can be designed into social software, all of the resultant behaviors should prove controllable...

...The most common solutions to anti-social behavior are moderator systems. Simply put, moderators have the ability to censor other users in the community. In most discussion forums, they can reorganize and delete posts, lock down threads, and ban users. Their approval may also be needed before new users can join. This kind of editorial censorship does not sit well with many users. Social software that relies on censorship by moderators must balance two mutually exclusive goals: speed and accuracy (Lampe & Resnick, 2004). Speed is maximized when lone moderators are able to evaluate content as soon as it is generated. However, lone moderators are likely to act on personal biases which may not be representative of the community at large. The usual solution is to amalgamate the evaluations of many moderators, but it takes time to accumulate the required number of evaluations. In fact, Lampe & Resnick found that most discussions on Slashdot (www.slashdot.com) aren't effectively moderated until they're already half over!...
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Postby spectabillis » Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:34 am

wow, after reading this topic from the beginning... I think... well I just need to be reminded of a few things. Seems I have been too long off track. Sorry people.
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Postby Don Muerto » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:59 pm

spectabillis wrote:wow, after reading this topic from the beginning... I think... well I just need to be reminded of a few things. Seems I have been too long off track. Sorry people.


You've been off track? I wonder how?

I mean, I never got the free meanyhead blowjob you promised, but I assumed none of the rest of the cabal did either. Was I wrong?

Hey! Was that why you guys sent me to the store for 'Blueberry Coke' and then giggled when I returned empty handed?
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:10 pm

I only blow the man, and when he's on fire.

I am currently reflecting back over my role as moderator as well as trying to apply lessons learned to the role. Its still a bit jumbled... but jeeze louise, could we all put the personal innuendos to rest now, especially out of policy feedback?
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Postby Don Muerto » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:57 pm

You're right. Humor has no place here.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:26 pm

I'm looking at the list of who's on and I see AntiM's name come up in Moderator Green. So when do we get the official announcement that someone's been added to the list of moderators?

By the way it's a great choice even if nobody knows how the decision was made or by whom.
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:20 pm

Don Muerto wrote:You're right. Humor has no place here.


Nope, we have glowsticks and glitter instead.... want some?

And I realized I did not open up a call for moderator nominations, these should be people the community voices out nominations for, no one nominating themselves, and completely open for discussion. Anyone think it they should be put to a vote?



This was my bad and its no one else's fault except mine.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:26 pm

I'm a little peeved that an open call wasn't made because there are some damn good people that need to be considered. And no...I wouldn't be nominating myself as nobody gives a rat's ass about me anyway. But at least seeing AntiM's name show up in Moderator Green made me smile.

And while I'm ranting SB it did seem like you are the defacto moderator on here. I'd see Chai Guy and Bex's name pop up as being online but if anything got hot you are the one that seems to be wading into muck to stop things. I'm glad to see you're FINALLY getting help.

Now if you could only persuade the powers that be that the handful of Russian master sock puppet accounts needs to be booted and soon....
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:29 pm

spectabillis wrote:And I realized I did not open up a call for moderator nominations, these should be people the community voices out nominations for, no one nominating themselves, and completely open for discussion. Anyone think it they should be put to a vote?



This was my bad and its no one else's fault except mine.



I'd go for that. Seriously.
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:51 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:I'm a little peeved that an open call wasn't made because there are some damn good people that need to be considered.

The fault is all mine, I take full blame with that.

I'm glad to see you're FINALLY getting help.


It's just me and Chai. Chai does far more than people probably know and I really value and appreciate his contributions, I would have walked by now if it was not for him and Emily. Bex is not a moderator, she is the official contact for certain things like tickets and lost+found but is signed up to the moderator group so she shows green.

The other problem is not many people want to be a part of the moderator team because of the animosity aimed towards people in that position. Each and every action is always controversial, and because you have to step into conflicts no one is ever happy.

Now if you could only persuade the powers that be that the handful of Russian master sock puppet accounts needs to be booted and soon....


Currently depends if and when spanky can rustle up a phpbb person to install the mods that EvilDustBooger did the great research on.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:55 pm

spectabillis wrote:Currently depends if and when spanky can rustle up a phpbb person to install the mods that EvilDustBooger did the great research on.


Captin Godammit knows someone.


So do I but that doesn't matter much to you guys huh?


:lol:
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:00 pm

DVD Burner wrote:Captin Godammit knows someone. So do I but that doesn't matter much to you guys huh?


You can have them note spanky if they are interested.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:06 pm

spectabillis wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:Captin Godammit knows someone. So do I but that doesn't matter much to you guys huh?


You can have them note spanky if they are interested.


The Captain is an eplayan. If he sees this he'll let ya'll know or just PM him.
Either it's yes or no. But he's a nice guy. Just PM him. I'm sure he wont mind.


It would not be apropos for me to ask.
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Postby spectabillis » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:07 am

I read back over this and realized something... I have full respect and confidence in AntiM as a moderator - and I want to be clear on that. I hope people can be warm, considerate, and helpful when welcoming her to this position.

AntiM is good at building long term relationships while being helpful here on the board. She makes great level-headed comments, provides fresh insight, and is an all around caring person. She has been one of those people many admire and respect in how she approaches people and situations. People listen to her, so you know if someone is getting upset and snarky... well, if they direct that at her its just not right. Everyone else knows she does not deserve something like that.

With just Chai and myself I thought this place could use that kind of soft touch and balance.
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Postby Chai Guy » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:17 am

I had the pleasure of meeting AntiM in person on the playa last year and she is an incredibly delightful person with a lot of wisdom and enthusiasm to share. I've always admired her posts here, and I think she will be a valuable resource.

Welcome AntiM!
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:37 am

AntiM sounds like a great choice to me also.

She has my vote.
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