Moderation discussion

We're doing it wrong...we know

Postby spectabillis » Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:36 am

Toolmaker wrote:K4 AKA Arch:
You just mentioned some of the fixes to clean house yourself.. as did Diane, myself and many others. Updating the software to remove these vulnerabilities that allow such enormous amounts of spam. Maybe put in that gif mod where you have to type in the skewed letters and numbers. Promote someone to go over new accounts to make sure they are legit users.. requiring users to post under moderation for say 5-10 of their first posts. Cleaning house by removing accounts that have 0 posts for the past 2 years, some have commerce links in the profile. I believe the technical term is "linkfarming". I would imagine there would be many willing to volunteer to "approve" these initial posts and it would also be a good way to find trustworty folks to move up the ladder and increase the staff so AM et al can have more time for more important things. I also think it would be good to "compile" tips and whatnot into and archive of resources. How many different dome threads do we have total? 10, 20, 30! If we compiled all the great information than it would be alot more helpful for new and old users. The Archive of tips for example would be a closed/locked section that can only be read. Than once a month or so newly posted stuff can be added. Saving this information would also help if an original source or website becomes available. Just my 69 cents. I for one am willing to help out any way I can.


good grasp on some of the more important things that have been problems for a few years. tried some different approaches but its too much to keep straight by external enforcement as long as its dependant on a few people. its one of the reasons i think the best approach is putting the tools to do it in everyones hands.

as long as the place is in this state you cant expect many to have much respect for it or anyone that uses it. it still has some value, definately has potential, but its pretty much in a current anarchistic state of social darwinism.
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Re: !

Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:03 am

Toolmaker wrote:
joel the ornery wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:DVD and Joel have yet to come after me but I am guessing its only a matter of time. Maybe we need to get rid of ALL open discussion threads.. maybe than we can behave like adults.


"yet to come after me"

pardon me?


I was referring to things like this..

joel the ornery wrote:AIIZ, go soak your head in a kitchen grease trap.


joel the ornery wrote:yeah, i am thinking the motivation behind starting the thread has something to do with having small penis. too bad for them.

i think i will drink lightly today, and keep my wits about me.


joel the ornery wrote:don't sit on it so much, young lady.


joel the ornery wrote:bled?

nice choice of words.

yeah, someone is acting like it is their the time to menustrate.

oops, snarky comment... call the moderator.


I was just pointing out that you have yet to respond to me in the nice civil fashion that your are known to respond to others with.



I dont know what any of this has got to do with me.

I dont and have never attacked anyone on this board.

Some may and have tried to twist the facts to make it seem like I've done so, fact of the matter is, I've done more than most to help make this board better and fixed.

That is the fact.

As far as the web team is concerned, well maybe some didn't like me.
What you'll find is those that did not like me didn't to this day make any difference nor a contribution to this board.
In most cases if they did not like me it was because I did not come in my feather boa like they did, but came to the org with solutions to technical problems and new ideas.

The ones on the team that had no problem with me in most cases have left the team.

This is the fact.

Too many childish things go on here.

For example: this is supposed to be a "Moderation discussion " thread.
It has gotten so off course it's ridiculous.

Anyhoo.

That said.......................
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Postby joel the ornery » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:10 am

dvd, you are still annoying. 8)
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:12 am

joel the ornery wrote:dvd, you are still annoying. 8)


That may be true.

Me telling the facts all the time can be annoying.

Especially when I have to repeat it so many times to people that are supposed to be so intelligent.
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Re: !

Postby SED » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:07 pm

Toolmaker wrote:
I was just pointing out that you have yet to respond to me in the nice civil fashion that you are known to respond to others with.




That's because you're a shit-head, Tool.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.
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Re: !

Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:09 pm

SED wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:
I was just pointing out that you have yet to respond to me in the nice civil fashion that you are known to respond to others with.




That's because you're a shit-head, Tool.


incredibly productive.
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Postby joel the ornery » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:37 pm

dvd, you do understand SED is doing that for his own amusement, correct?
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!

Postby Toolmaker » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:37 pm

Quote:
This message quotes a user on your ignore list. View topic with ignored data?

I think not fair PHP board.

I am sure it is just another statement from someone I plonked that is best left plonked. Correct me if I am wrong.. but based on DVDs statement I would venture to guess that it was a wonderfully intelligent and mature statement. (<---facetious remark)
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Postby SED » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:08 pm

Actually Tool, it's even more fun calling you a shithead when you don't know it.

Shithead!
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:14 pm

I really dont have time to figure out what this is all about? (If you dont know what I mean then dont continue to read this.)
But, I dont know If I should express whether or not I should give the "Dis-dignification" to this ........thread.

(double negative.)

I dont disrespect this thread.

As best as I can put in words, what I mean in saying that.

All I'm concerned with is, is what is going on with the implementation patch for this board?


I should not ask this many times for this, if the beings that make this board possible.........
Think anyone should ask…………….

I just dont know what to say, or post, or what to do.

this is the what??????????????

"Moderation discussion ?"
thread?


Seriously.


Help me burningman………people………..

(In place of God.............whatever……..being………..whatever……........can anyone hear me?)

Simple problems, that can be solved…….......is all I can see.


Sorry, I forgot my feather Boa.


But...........




If this is what everyyone wants, PM me and tell me to shut the fuck up, and I will leave everyone alone.



Please show me proof of this.......(What you want.)............


Yes, I am playing with words in real time.

Ciao!

And cheers!



T-



Whatever!

T-
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:22 pm

And is Tool into "Tool".


I deserve at least that one.


(Dont ask me cause if you dont know what I mean.......too bad.)

Ie; waste of time to this thread. (as efficiently as possible.)

:twisted: :P :lol:
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Postby Archantael » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:47 am

Q: Should eplaya moderators be expected to be an active poster / participant on the board?

Part of this debate was touched on before, there was even a discussion on if the admins should use socks to separate their official postings and work from their personal stuff.

My reason for bringing this up is that Badger responded to Emily's request to help her friends in Boston (the need for the request is not in question here IMHO as I feel those guys got screwed) by asking her what has she done for the community to warrant everyone chipping in to help her cause? As an admin it appears she's done quite a bit for the board. But if you run an Author search by post and take a look...she doesn't really participate in the board outside of case studies. This brings me to my question. Do we want moderators / admins that are not that active on the board running the place?

I say no, and while I've had my disagreements with SB, he is an good example of an active poster that knew the pecularities of how this board works. The best example would be AntiM who dives in here every day and posts....and when she speaks up in a moderator role my impression is that people favorably respond to whatever she asks. IMHO this is the type of person we need running the board. (Previous personal gripes against SB excluded)

So is it time to change the requirements of being a moderator / admin? The standards are supposed to be ours to set. Let's test that out.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:49 am

Active, preferably, a sock? No. I think folks can tell when we're moderating and when we're being just us. Personally, I DO NOT want to have a sock. No Thank You. I well may rescind my volunteering if that becomes a hard and fast rule.

This is a user-moderated board. I'm a user. Not too hard to understand. If a person can't tell the difference between a moderator request and a personal post, I'll be more than happy to explain it, repeatedly and at great length. I'm a homemaker, I have lots of time on my hands to share with the eplaya.

Admins now, admins work in a different sphere. That isn't a user function, so perhaps a different identifier might be useful. Emily is very active here, just not in a visible way. She's on near daily taking care of business. I think the distinction between mod and admin must be made very plain to the rest of the users. Admins do not moderate.
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Postby Dork » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:54 am

FYI, I've been granted moderator status. I'm new and probably won't directly act when it comes to gray areas without consulting Anti M and others - mostly I'm here to help stomp spam and hopefully do some behind the scene tech stuff once access issues are worked out.

Archantael wrote:Q: Should eplaya moderators be expected to be an active poster / participant on the board?

Although using a sock would be one way of making it clear when one of us is speaking as a moderator and not just an opinionated user, it would also be a pain and could be confusing in other ways. I think it's probably best to just try to be clear in our wording, and in general to not get involved in personal disputes.

If you're suggesting we should make a rule that moderators can't participate in the boards, I don't see how we would even get any moderators. The reason we became mods is because we spent way too much time here and decided to help out. If I had to choose between being able to post and being able to mediate disputes, I'd pick posting in a heartbeat.

I think it needs to be a case by case basis. If anyone feels a moderator is not being clear or is abusing their power, speak up and we'll talk about whether that person is really fit to be a mod.
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Postby Archantael » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:54 am

Sheesh, I'm being taken wrong. I don't want to see mods using socks, I want to see them participate! Think NO SPECTATORS! How can you moderate a board if you don't wade into the melees and understand the dynamics of how it all works?

Or in short, Dork and Anti M are already exhibiting the behavior I'm talking about.
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Postby Dork » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:00 pm

Archantael wrote:Sheesh, I'm being taken wrong. I don't want to see mods using socks, I want to see them participate! Think NO SPECTATORS! How can you moderate a board if you don't wade into the melees and understand the dynamics of how it all works?

Or in short, Dork and Anti M are already exhibiting the behavior I'm talking about.

Ah, heh sorry! I guess our minds are still on previous posts where people suggested the exact opposite.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:07 pm

Archantael wrote:Or in short, Dork and Anti M are already exhibiting the behavior I'm talking about.


I have an entirely inappropriate snarky response. Sigh.
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:24 am

Archantael wrote:This brings me to my question. Do we want moderators / admins that are not that active on the board running the place?


also depends on what you mean by running the place. if you mean handling things like deleting spam posts and the accounts they are registered under then - yes. but just about everything else - no. the lack of org member posts also shows how strange and imperfect the situation is.

i still get the message and understand what you are saying, i even support it to a point and think i have mentioned this. but there's also some strange tendencies that i learned that needs to be considered: like the percieved influence and focus people have on those they think are in charge. its similar to the 'cult of personality' where people give praise and attention just because of position, they become defacto leaders despite that not being the intention. (i am NOT a community leader, i dont believe in that, but from interactions i learned some people see me that way)

so i think it helps provide a better balance with people who are not all that active in posting. remember, the vast number of people here dont post, they lurk and read, just look at the number of logged in registered users compared to those under 'guest.'

so having more people with less activity working on things doesnt make the involvement with the community any less because there is a wider range of perceptions and interactions to collect from. i think, but not sure yet, that it will actually be a better guage to whats going on from a larger sample, if you look at things that way.

another safely mechanism is to make sure volunteers discuss things in feedback, and you can see thats still happening here despite the lack of any explicit direction to do so. thats fucking amazing! really, it shows how much everyone is still concerned about things and what people think.
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Postby gaminwench » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:38 am

IMO, Spec has been awesome all along...some of you guys are HARSH, and he seems to have the cajones to deal...
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Postby emily sparkle » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:40 pm

i feel like i should say a little something here...

i became the eplaya admin so i could offer something back to the burning man community i had fallen in love with. i have been a participant on the eplaya since it was green and black... i found it an immense resource for me before my first burn and my now-legal-chosen-name came from my carefully choosing my first eplaya handle. (i remember thinking... ok, now who do i want to be?...) i was raked over the coals for being a newbie raver asking questions about glowsticks. harsh words, but good lessons deleivered by bob and a few others who now most heavily participate on that other board (which i also have lurked on since it started, but never posted) ...

when they went to a new system (the one before phpbb) they called for an admin to respond to questions and help people with their passwords etc. i wasn't there to make rules (there were no rules back then) and i could continue reading/lurking and help/gift back at the same time.

i've never been much of a poster... as you can tell by my counts. i don't get into the drama that most boards create. it's just not me... which is why when the need for moderation, terms of service etc. came up, i really delineated my role as an admin and have left moderation up to those who are more even tempered and better at explaining themselves. in a few cases i've been dragged in, but really, i prefer to be the woman behind the curtain, helping people when i can and staying out of the bullshit.

does that mean i am less of a participant than a moderator? maybe, who knows... most days i spend a couple hours here, reading, cleaning up, deleting and banning. it's been harder lately since i have a new business that sucks up about 80 hours a week. but i'm still here, still dedicated and still trying to keep up with the spam posts.

the phpbb system has turned out to be less than ideal and now our technical resources are thinner than they ever have been. in an ideal world, we'd have php fluent resources who could install a dozen or so mods that would make the eplaya less of a timesuck for those who have volunteered to keep this place alive. but until those resources show up... i work with what i have and try to stay out of the drama.

i'm thankful for all the hard work SB, AntiM and now Dork are putting in and am grateful for the past contributions to technopatra and chai guy and others. it's not easy to do their job, and i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

do i wish more org members participated? sorta, but not really. actiongrl is a pretty common poster over on the other board, but she seems mostly to be on the defensive and has to be that way because the org is generally perceived in a negative way. burning man is about the participants, so i feel like the eplaya can be a natural extension of that.

do i wish the eplaya got more attention on the technical side? yes. definitely.
:) emily sparkle
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:16 pm

emily sparkle wrote:do i wish the eplaya got more attention on the technical side? yes. definitely.


So you are saying that Badger is doing a fantastic job with the webteam of eplaya?

Too bad everyone caved in to him. A lot of technical things could have gotten done for eplaya. But that's just Badger drama.

Anyhoo,

What is the deal with the patches and implementations I sent 2 years ago ( or more.) to the webteam?

I'm just trying to understand what it is that may be the problem implementing the mods.


Seriously, why are they not already tested and implemented?
I'm not going to imagine that it's not implimented only because I submitted the solutions huh?

I'd have a hard time believing it could be something as stupid and immature as that. It's got to be some other reason right?
Please let it be for some other reason.

Eplaya could have been fixed a long time ago? :? :roll:
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Postby Dork » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:39 pm

It has nothing to do with you, DVD. It has to do with lots of drama at the ORG with people leaving, new people coming in and not being given the resources to really do anything, volunteers with limited power and general confusion all around. Apparently at least one mod was attempted some time ago and it failed for some unknown reason. Apparently Spanky did a lot of customization so there might have been a conflict. Nobody had the right combination of time, access, and knowlege to figure it out so it was dropped. We have a list of changes we want to make but haven't gotten our shit together sufficiently to make any of them happen.

I don't know what Badger might have to do with the web team. He hasn't been on any of the emails I've seen.

I've been on the fast track to help implement mods for the last month and a half, but I still don't have any access or real information. Mods will happen, but don't hold your breath.

If you want to IM me with info on the mods you sent before I'd be happy to take a look at them.
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:43 pm

Dork,

That has got to be the most realistic answer I have heard yet.

Thank you.



:wink:
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Postby spectabillis » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:22 pm

Dork wrote:I don't know what Badger might have to do with the web team. He hasn't been on any of the emails I've seen.


badger has nothing to do with any of it. just ignore that part because its dvd being his normal self in deflecting blame while making it personal, you get used to it.
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:24 pm

spectabillis wrote:
Dork wrote:I don't know what Badger might have to do with the web team. He hasn't been on any of the emails I've seen.


badger has nothing to do with any of it. just ignore that part because its dvd being his normal self in deflecting blame while making it personal, you get used to it.


SB, you are not helping your cause if you have one.

You are creating drama.

Dont answer if you have nothing to say, son.


(as you can see, this is one of the reasons why eplaya has very few to no experienced IT people. Why should anyone have to put up with bullshit like was just posted.)
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Postby Badger » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:40 pm

i've never been much of a poster... as you can tell by my counts. i don't get into the drama that most boards create. it's just not me... which is why when the need for moderation, terms of service etc. came up, i really delineated my role as an admin and have left moderation up to those who are more even tempered and better at explaining themselves. in a few cases i've been dragged in, but really, i prefer to be the woman behind the curtain, helping people when i can and staying out of the bullshit.


A fair enough response Emily. Like I said my query was fueled more by a general interest than any intent to give you hell.
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:47 pm

If eplaya were to loose Emily at this point, it would be as disastrous as losing Spanky, Technopatra and Ra.

It's really a good idea never to piss off your best talent.
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Postby Badger » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:49 pm

(In place of God.............whatever……..being………..whatever……........ can anyone hear me?)


Dude, whatever capital you ever head re. being heard or taken seriously was burned up a long, LONG time ago.

But I think you know that.
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:52 pm

Badger wrote:
(In place of God.............whatever……..being………..whatever……........ can anyone hear me?)


Dude, whatever capital you ever head re. being heard or taken seriously was burned up a long, LONG time ago.

But I think you know that.


Creating more drama huh Badger?


You’ve done a great job with the eplaya webteam son.

Some advise for you, keep quiet. It's your best asset.

I have more credibility than you at this point. Always have and always will.

:lol:
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Postby spectabillis » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:24 pm

DVD Burner wrote:as you can see, this is one of the reasons why eplaya has very few to no experienced IT people. Why should anyone have to put up with bullshit like was just posted.


bullshit? like the attempts to deflect blame away from yourself again since you are one of the single biggest reasons people left? making it personal and causing drama with a comment towards another, like badger, then accusing that person of drama when they respond?

dude, you never will get it... so just leave it alone and dont bring it up anymore. badger has absolutely noting to do with the eplaya, neither does spanky, neither does anyone else who had to deal with you, except me an emily.
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