Moderation discussion

We're doing it wrong...we know

Postby Kinetic IV » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:37 am

Coming right after a great post about AntiM anything you say is going to look bad so I might as well spit out the disgust I have about how this came to be. I thought....key word is thought....that the end users of this board had a say on how it was run. From the creation of the TOS on down to cosmetic changes end user input has been sought since day one (or at least Day One of the current board following the switcheroo debacle). Now...we have this situation. Again, I have nothing but good things to say about AntiM. I've met her and she would have made my top 3 list as suggested moderator choices if we were given the opportunity to say something. But to pick someone without any community input sets a bad precedent especially when you go back and look at what's happened in the past.

How about balancing this out by letting the community pick one more person to help out, giving the board 4 moderators...that increases the chances someone's on here at any given hour and they can spot the comings and goings of the master Russian sock puppets, they can also nip arguments faster... or in other words Technopatra got burned out here, SB just posted that if it wasn't for Chai Guy he would have walked out...spread this around and decrease the load factor on the mods and give the community a chance to ask someone to step up and serve.

</soapbox>
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:42 am

As I see it,

I dont see much wrong with the board until it comes to politics.
Politics can get pretty nasty no matter how you put it.

People dont take snipes at each other till something is posted in relation to politics. Most of the attacks happen 2 ways, politics and newbies.

When no one snaps on newbiews everything is ok.

Politics.........lets just say no one is going to agree there.


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Postby spectabillis » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:59 am

Kinetic IV wrote:Coming right after a great post about AntiM anything you say is going to look bad so I might as well spit out the disgust I have about how this came to be. I thought....key word is thought....that the end users of this board had a say on how it was run. ...


Which is the reason I am to blame, so please, please aim it at me and not her because she doesnt deserve it. Besides, something tells me she feels uncomfortable being put in that situation with that kind of bad attention, so I dont like how I did it.

How about balancing this out by letting the community pick one more person to help out, giving the board 4 moderators...


I just got a concern from Chai that it not be a popularity game, I didnt think of that. Anyone think of a way to make sure that does not happen? Because honestly, I think its a valid and reasonable thing to do if the people here could pull it off. I would honestly like to see it work because it would be an important step in this board being able to run and represent itself.

In fact, its kinda exciting

and

Thanks so far for people not blowing up and keeping civil.
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:04 am

spectabillis wrote:
I just got a concern from Chai that it not be a popularity game, I didnt think of that. Anyone think of a way to make sure that does not happen? Because honestly, I think its a valid and reasonable thing to do if the people here could pull it off. I would honestly like to see it work because it would be an important step in this board being able to run and represent itself.



Ummm,


You guys uummmm sorta sound like you're kinda scared of something or other.

:lol:


Why dont ya'll just go wit da flow? :P
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:08 am

Might I also add that the Fishy, Diane and Tish would also make great Moderators.
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Postby Chai Guy » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:26 am

I think Spec and I are end users of this board.

Secondly, being a moderator here is not a position of any kind of authority, moderators have as much, no more, no less input as anyone else on posting on this board.

Currently we have the ability to delete posts in one little tiny section of the board, we've been asked for across the board privledges to delete blatant spam since, well, since we became moderators.

Anyway, all this to say that 99% of what we do is lead by example, and you don't need to have your screen name appear in green to do that.

I just don't want anyone to think that being a moderator gives your ideas more weight, because it does not.

If people really want to have a voice in choosing moderators, I would suggest pm'ing those thoughts to a moderator or admin those mods/admins can then create a list of people who were nominated and choose from that list.

What I would not want to see is people naming names publicly and then having other people critique those names. (especially since the person named may not even desire to be a moderator so it really wouldn't be fair to do that to him/her in the first place).
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:29 am

That is about the fairest thing I've read on this board yet CG.

shall I delete my nominations?
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:51 am

YAAAY!


I see AntiM all green there.


Congradulations.
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Self-Nominations for Moderator

Postby Captain Fuckwit » Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:20 pm

The only people who should be moderators on Eplaya would be those people who nominate themselves. Deviation from this path of self-nomination will have a corrupting effect. Those who self-nominate are instantly confirmed to everyone as having a desire to be a moderator: The absolutley essential first step. The second step, however, is to listen to the applicant and consider why this person wants to be a moderator. What is this person's scope of interest? How does this person expect to moderate? What is this person's philosophy? What can we expect?

I nominate myself, Captain Fuckwit. The scope of my interest has already been laid out, nearly a year ago-
Captain Fuckwit wrote:If you can allow me "moderator" priviledges for three (3) threads of my naming, I can return to you one (1) highly successful thread in terms of clarity, content and brevity. When I deliver the thread to you after ten (10) months, I'll tell you how I did it! (3/23/05)

My philosophies, with regards to matters of the edit button, deleting threads, and censorship, have all been laid out solely within the Eplaya Feedback section. This being my 27th post, you should be well aware that I have created my entire unique entity, so far, in under 27 posts, demonstrating discernment and focus.

The scope of my moderating will probably be limited to what I'm asking for here- moderator control over three (or so) threads. I will be able to demonstrate what makes a good moderator.

Give people the ability to moderate certain areas and let us learn who among us knows how to moderate effectively versus those whose moderation will be overbearing. I recommend to Kinetic that he nominate himself as a moderator: His scope of interest is obviously his current concern with regards to the Russian fake-accounts: Let him take care of it. But I recommend that he limit his scope of moderator activity toward this concern and not stray too far into other areas.

Please give me moderator ability over my own unique area where I can create threads that are complimentary to each other. Of the threads I create, I should be able to lock these threads, move messages between these threads, delete duplicate threads and counsel users on how to stay on topic to produce a most effective area on Eplaya. I will the leave the other areas to the other moderators to take care of.

Sincerely yours,
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Postby Chai Guy » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:50 pm

The only people who should be moderators on Eplaya would be those people who nominate themselves.


My suggestion of pm'ing a moderator or admin with your nomination, even if "self nomination" still stands.

My philosophies, with regards to matters of the edit button, deleting threads, and censorship, have all been laid out solely within the Eplaya Feedback section. This being my 27th post, you should be well aware that I have created my entire unique entity, so far, in under 27 posts, demonstrating discernment and focus.


Moderators are given no more and no less input into board modifications than anyone else. Moderators do not currently lock threads, delete threads (other than blatant spambot posts in the limited areas they currently have privledges to do so in) or provide censorship. Moderators lead by example, attempt to mediate disputes, and make policy suggestions to the admins. These things can all be accomplished by anyone using this board, at any time, regardless of the color of their screen name.
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Postby Captain Fuckwit » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:34 am

Chai Guy, I think you are incredibly stupid.

Sincerely yours,
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Postby spectabillis » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:02 pm

cf, please keep those kind of personal statements way clear of policy discussion.
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Postby Captain Fuckwit » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:23 am

Spectabillis, I think you are incredibly stupid.

Sincerely yours,
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A Particular Effect

Postby Captain Fuckwit » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:39 am

(03/30/05)
I'm a very intelligent person. I know when I am on-topic. I should not be required to always be on topic with laser-like precision... I'm presenting a particular, unadorned point-of-view for a particular effect... What may appear to a "personal remark" may actually be a design toward a higher intent at "herding cats".

Sincerely yours,
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Postby Chai Guy » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:52 am

I'm a very intelligent person.


You've mentioned that, twice now.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:57 am

Belive it or not, I actually think I understand what CF may be saying.
He pointed to several things that seem to be the exact thing that is happening currently. One example is in his "Defacto" statement.

(He posted a link 4 posts ago.)



Revise: He had it posted but his profile makes for an easy search since he has not posted much.
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Re: A Particular Effect

Postby spectabillis » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:28 am

Captain Fuckwit wrote:I'm a very intelligent person. I know when I am on-topic. I should not be required to always be on topic with laser-like precision...


I dont think I have ever said you were not, and carefully read your posts. But its less of being on topic and more of stopping personal name-calling comments in policy discussion, which has been drawn to your attention twice now. Since you never replied to a pm from me I am telling you here to make sure you understand and are not blocked.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:44 pm

Personally speaking (if you could excuse the pun.) I dont think it's a personal thing.

I think sometimes some people have diffrent ways of expressing themselves in order to make their point.

Growing up in N.Y., it was and maybe still is a custom to seem rude because everyone there is mostly interested in getting straight to the point no matter how rude it may seem.


Key word: seem.
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:20 pm

*sigh*

and thats a problem, unfortunately people bring in present and past differences and conflicts and fuck it up for everyone else. you honestly expecting me to be partial and only apply it selectively to a few? thats not going to happen, it has to be applied evenly and to everyone so if people only make comments in jest, which is a completely normal and sometimes fun thing to do, they cant now.

and it fucks it up in more ways than people can readily observe, improvements of the board being a good example. look at how the personal attack policy topic was so sidetracked and how much effort it takes to keep people's selfish agenda's out of it. its not like other people really want to see that, they want an open and civil place to discuss policy and important matters to them. they dont do that with whats going on, and so the community suffers at the hands of those few.

and the rest of the board suffers as well, we have no time to cover anything else when all our time is spent dealing with all that crap. then those same few people bitch and moan about how things dont get done like the spamming problem. no-win situation. and how people can think it would be easy to find good volunteers willing to deal with that shit is beyond me, people have already isolated themselves and everyone else from the help we could have recieved.

not that i expect to be believed in what i am saying, thats the thing about self-interest at the expense of a larger community. but its also why there is going to be less understanding applied to people who continue this behavior since they dont return the same consideration.

and to everyone else that is civil and persistant in improving things so we have a better place... thank you, i am trying to honor that, its just a lot of work and is taking time, endless months of it.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:54 pm

Uuummmm,


I don’t see how one can ignore these types of problems arising with an organization as large as 40,000 strong without having some differences. How can one not expect to have these kinds of situations with an organization this huge and getting bigger without foreseeing it?

The best thing is that it is being discussed now while something can be done about it.
Silencing what opinions and options bought fourth no matter how diversified it may be is obviously not the solution.
One has to just think a little bit harder and rise to the challenge.

What I have seen posted over the years, has been scenarios of what could happen that have happened.
Preemptive tactics have not worked. It's unfortunately and/or fortunately a good thing that these things are happening now because there is something to draw on to place a foundation for future deliberations that can be dissolved quickly and efficiently.

My opinion: things in most cases that have been posted on this board may be opinions that for good or worse have been posted not to agitate but to challenge the thought process. Maliciousness as it seems, I don’t think in most cases were intended....in most cases.

Just analyze what has come fourth and create something from it instead of having it be a personal thing. Not only that but many will feel much better and proud to have been part of the solution instead of placing a user/admin or mod in the position of despair for stating their opinion or for being different because some may not see or understand what one may be speaking of at the moment. I know that it seems like that has been the point already or seems like it’s what many are already doing, however As we have seen, things that have been said in the past can come up later only to be recognized the point was mentioned long before and could have been and was preventable.

There is already a lot of good help here. I like to think of it as "resources."
just take advantage of it so the rest of this year can continue to be awsome for/on eplaya. It's gonna be hard but I have confidence that this is a team and it can be done.
From what I see everyone is actually trying hard to make it all work but everyone needs to take out the time to listen to each other really extra hard. but it can be done.
Eplaya is almost there.


just one other thing, I really do think that the color scheme of eplaya may have something to do with the reactions sometimes with the vibe. I'm sure there are studies on this but.......I'm no expert. A UX/IX thing



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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:05 pm

P.S. if you want examples or ideas of senerios that compare to what I just described then this time is a good idea to PM me.
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:33 pm

DVD Burner wrote:organization as large as 40,000 strong without having some differences.


of course not, but you are comparing this board to the event. people act much differently here than they do at the event, especially in what they say to each other as opposed to saying it to someones face, that should be obvious.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:44 pm

spectabillis wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:organization as large as 40,000 strong without having some differences.


of course not, but you are comparing this board to the event. people act much differently here than they do at the event, especially in what they say to each other as opposed to saying it to someones face, that should be obvious.


This is true to a certain extent. However, if you read carefully you should be able to understand (as captain fuckwit has so eloquently displayed, this is not always the case.)

it is up to you to make the first step to find what it is that others may be trying to express to you.

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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:50 pm

Hate to say this but after all this is the cacophony burningman is born out of.

one must be able to harness it.
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Postby spectabillis » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:52 pm

DVD Burner wrote:it is up to you to make the first step to find what it is that others may be trying to express to you.


And its up to you. I hope no one is going to fool themselves by thinking everyone is going to agree - thats impossible.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:04 pm

spectabillis wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:it is up to you to make the first step to find what it is that others may be trying to express to you.


And its up to you. I hope no one is going to fool themselves by thinking everyone is going to agree - thats impossible.


No one agrees all the time. Unfortunately or fortunately we live in a democracy. We all can come to a compromise......cant we?


dont you at least think this is somewhat challenging?
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Postby Chai Guy » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:58 pm

Unfortunately, this isn't a democracy, and if you think Spec, Emily or I are part of the ruling class, you should go talk to Technopatra and ask who's in charge here.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:05 pm

Chai Guy wrote:Unfortunately, this isn't a democracy, and if you think Spec, Emily or I are part of the ruling class, you should go talk to Technopatra and ask who's in charge here.


I miss Technopatra on this board.



So hey, since you brought it up, who exactly is in charge?

Technopatra is smart as a whip. more so than most.


Added:

Technopatra added some spunk to this place. something that is desperately needed.
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Postby Chai Guy » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:15 pm

I miss Technopatra on this board.


Me too my friend, me too.

*Sigh*

<a little tear runs down Chai's face>
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:59 pm

Chai Guy wrote:
I miss Technopatra on this board.


Me too my friend, me too.

*Sigh*

<a little tear runs down Chai's face>



Ok so like hey....she's is a hottie......but.....



Looks are not what turns me on.


even though.....she's hot......


But......



i'm not into girls right now.


i'm not alowed to be.



But there is nothing like a totally smart woman......



I'm just not into girls.....i'm sorry....I cant help that.


No hitting on, mind you.


i'm not any which a way this way or that......


BM has the ut most totally hot women.



i dont do that. and I dont do guys. or animals or anything. I just concentrate on what I do.
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