Categories and Forums Discussion

We're doing it wrong...we know

How do you feel about the current ePlaya structure?

It's great!
5
7%
Works for me, but could be improved.
10
14%
Never found it a problem.
20
28%
OK, but could use some work.
13
18%
It really needs work.
12
17%
What were you guys thinking?
5
7%
What day is it again?
7
10%
 
Total votes : 72

Categories and Forums Discussion

Postby admin » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:38 pm

This topic is for discussing the layout of the categories and forums on the new ePlaya. The results of this discussion will be implemented and rolled out after about a week.

Should we keep it as it is? Do there need to be more or fewer categories or subtopics? We're already hearing some ideas for new layouts, which we'll also be posting here soon.

Here is the current layout:

>>Black Rock City

Nature of Burning Man: Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Experience of Burning Man: Share the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.

Questions and Advice: Questions, answers, tips & tricks for newbies and veterans alike

Announcements: Read-only messages from the Burning Man Staff

>>2005 Event

Share 2005: Materials and expertise...whether you need them or have them to gift, you can let folks know here. This is a GIFTING forum only, so please no bartering, selling or purchasing.

Psyche: the Conscious, the Subconscious and the Unconscious: Our 2005 theme explores psychology: self-expression, self-reflection and the unconscious power of dreams. Discuss.

Camps, Art & Activities: Exchange camp ideas, find places to perform, announce your events, etc.

Tickets: Yep, you can buy, sell, barter or gift them here.

>>Community

Regional Contacts & Events: Get in touch with other Burners in your area.

General Discussion: All things outside of Burning Man.

ePlaya Feedback: Help makes these forums better - talk policy, report a bug, make a suggestion.
Last edited by admin on Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby actiongrl » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:26 pm

What do you guys think of having a thread specially designated for the more pugnacious among us? This would be a "take your nasty battles here" place for folks to suggest as an alternative to cluttering up every thread with interpersonal conflict.

Does such a place *invite* conflict, or is it just a good way to siphon it off and keep it out of everyone else's face? Love to hear some thoughts on this.
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Postby Sandwichman » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:32 pm

actiongrl wrote:What do you guys think of having a thread specially designated for the more pugnacious among us? This would be a "take your nasty battles here" place for folks to suggest as an alternative to cluttering up every thread with interpersonal conflict.

Does such a place *invite* conflict, or is it just a good way to siphon it off and keep it out of everyone else's face? Love to hear some thoughts on this.


As much as I like the idea when conflict erupts it is like a monkey flinging poo or even like going to the beach and days later still trying to shake off all the sand. The conflicts usually erupt in a thread then even moving them will leave people with the taste of bitterness still encircling the thread. I also believe setting up a place for arguement shows an acceptance of it. I think with the ignore feature we will all fair well.

Just my two scoobie snacks thrown into it. And a good topic.

Jason
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:34 pm

I'm going to have to see how the mods work once we have more threads going and people posting.
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Postby geekster » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:38 pm

I think the idea of a "Mosh Pit" might be okay but I am concerned that some individuals would tend to live there and attempt to suck others into it from other threads. Other than that one small concern (which can be delt with now that we have the tools), I think it is a good idea if for no other reason than to keep the poo flinging on one contained area.
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Postby GuinivereElise » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:51 pm

Personally, I think that having an area where people can take their uglier disagreements would be fine, but what if it's a healthy debate (albeit a passionate one) that benefits the whole community? who would moderate something like that? would it need it?

re: threads...

Personally, I'd like to see the Q&A section move out of BRC and into the section for the year (this would be "2005" this year). it just makes more sense to me. YMMV, of course.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:55 pm

GuinivereElise wrote:Personally, I'd like to see the Q&A section move out of BRC and into the section for the year (this would be "2005" this year). it just makes more sense to me. YMMV, of course.
I ran into an old fasioned ice box at a 2nd hand store yesterday and wondered what experience (if any) people had with those on playa. To me that seems like an "eternal" question, not one grounded in any particular year.

my zwei groechen
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Postby geekster » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:56 pm

Oh, I would say the mosh pit would be completely unmoderated. Let the users moderate it themselves basically with our newfound Swiss Army Knives.
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:22 pm

I say don't worry about it. if we have the ability to ignore, then that is good enough. children will still be children...
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Postby geekster » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:27 pm

I think the Lost and Found thread should be brought back fairly early since this is fundraiser season and there are a lot of peripheral events going on.
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Postby Tancorix » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:33 pm

If it has a space reserved for it, you've essentially sanctioned it.
Let's give plonk a chance to work and then have the admins tinker under the hood after we know what the changes can and cannot do.
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Postby Tiara » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:46 pm

I don't think people need "sanction" to be argumentative. And I don't think setting up a free-for-all area gives sanction.

IMO, having a separate area to take flame wars should send the message that they're not particularly welcome elsewhere.
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Postby geekster » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:11 pm

I agree with Tiara. It isn't sanctioning it, it is giving stuff that others might consider to be "thread pollution" a place to go. It is kinda like the alt. heirarchy in usenet, it was put there so that stuff that was showing up in the other threads had a place to go. Think about an area that is zoned for "adult entertainment" in a city ... same reason. It is zoned that way so that stuff has a place to go and isn't sprinkled in neighborhoods and people that don't want to be around it may avoid it. Same concept here. Make an area for stuff like bitchfests so people have a place to take em.

This way, someone can take a shit storm "over there" so I don't have to ignore them completely.
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Will the old e-Playa be back?

Postby Observer » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:13 pm

Sorry to be contributing to the problem of topic drift, but the system wouldn't let me start a new topic when I tried, just now.

My question: will the url http://oldbbs.burningman.com start working again? I saw a link to it on the board after it went down, and an announcement that the old e-Playa was up and working in the archives, but whenever I clicked on that link all I got was an error message. The link worked for the first month it was up, but just kind of died after that.

What's the deal on that? Are the rumors true? I heard that some hacker gained root level access to the boards and wiped out the archives. Hoping that's not true, but after a few months it's hard not to wonder.
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Postby Tancorix » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:34 pm

Geekster, I understand your point. Hopefully it won't be necessary though and the new tools will police things enough to avoid it. I guess I can think of it as a virtual Thunderdome that can be used if needed or something like that.

Observer did touch on something I heard and was curious about. I'm hoping some of the older content comes back soon even if it's in a read only mode. There are regionals coming up, stuff to build and the info I need is in those closed off sections.
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Postby III » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:48 pm

i believe the idea is (and i could be completely wrong on this) that there be a decent sized crew of moderators selected from the community to police the non cesspool threads, and make them inhospitable (via post deletion and posting privilege blocking) for people trying to start shitstorms there. keeping a free for all area completely separate would allow them an avenue for expression which would (hopefully) diminish their efforts in the policed threads.
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Postby actiongrl » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:14 pm

III's right. :)
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:26 pm

sounds good, in theory. moderators will be needed, I thinks.
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arguments and "differences of opinion"

Postby the_iconoclast » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:43 pm

Instead of a forum...

I am considering creating a paintball "Duelling" area in my camp but I can't find any info on whether paintball guns are considered firearms. The concept - you have an argument - go to the duelling range, check out two paintball guns with one shot a piece - stand back to back - take your paces - and whirl and shoot when the judge says "Duel!" As a means to settle arguments, the smack os a paintball might cause people to reconsider petty differences.. goggles will be provided..

Any comments?
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:33 pm

sounds fun! also sounds pretty messy, keep in line with the "leave no trace" mantra and yer in...
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Postby the_iconoclast » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:48 pm

bullD wrote:sounds fun! also sounds pretty messy, keep in line with the "leave no trace" mantra and yer in...


I have an IMMENSE blue tarp I was going to make into an "arena"... 8' back drop, etc.
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:54 pm

cool!

I would think that it would have to be more like a miniature arena so errant paint balls don't fly out and hit some unsuspecting person, that would suck.
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:56 pm

bullD wrote:cool!

I would think that it would have to be more like a miniature arena so errant paint balls don't fly out and hit some unsuspecting person, that would suck.


ehhh, let me clarify:

it would have to have surrounding walls because paint balls, like bullets, don't always go where they were intended to go. So, that includes side walls etc. etc. etc.....
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Postby the_iconoclast » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:22 pm

I see your point.. I was thinking of putting it next to my "Strip Croquet" playing field... I mean.. everybody plays strip croquet.. right? I could put my "Auto Canvas" on the other side.. hmm... I appreciate the thoughts.. got the gears turning...
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Postby III » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:31 pm

my experience is that le considers paintball weapons (as well as air rifles of all sorts) to fall under the "no firearms" restriction.

sorry to rain on your parade - you'll have to find another way of radically expressing yourself.

(sorry for the drift. i spose i should get back to working up the topic area mockups...)
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Postby the_iconoclast » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:36 pm

III wrote:my experience is that le considers paintball weapons (as well as air rifles of all sorts) to fall under the "no firearms" restriction.

sorry to rain on your parade - you'll have to find another way of radically expressing yourself.

(sorry for the drift. i spose i should get back to working up the topic area mockups...)


Damn... I thought they might.. looks like I'll have to get back to designing the dodgeball arena... Back to the topic at hand.. I like the current arrangement of topics.
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:49 pm

whoa, not so fast there. it has been III's experience, that is not the final word. put together a proposal stating how you think this would benefit the community AND how you intend to keep the community safe from being injured by paint balls. get that to the right people and fukin hell, who knows. it certainly does not hurt to try. besides, you gain experience and knowledge on how to go about putting a theme camp together for future BM endeavors. don't lay down...
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Postby III » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:52 pm

suggest that this (worthwhile) topic be moved to general discussion, since it's out of scope here...
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Postby bullD » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:02 pm

thread drift, weeeeeeeeee!!!

iconoclast: how about sponges full of a water based coloring of some sort that can be hurled at one another, duel style, inside this arena? if the final final says no way to paint guns then hurling is the next best thing, and fun to boot...

allrightythen, off to the Empire Store with this little dicussion...
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Postby Wind_Borne » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:45 am

On a designated Pugnacious Thread and Moderated Threads ...

From years as a systems architect, studying self-organizing systems, and reading the Tao Te Ching, I believe that good results depend more on structure than regulation.

So I like AG's notion of creating a place, a war-zone, for those that want to do battle -- a safety valve for pent up pressure. Since people often do and say stupid things in the heat of battle, maybe posts in a war-zone thread should have a finite and short life to allow heaing between flame wars.

In the world of peaceful threads, civility and courteousness may be strengthened by the same means that do so in day-to-day life: we welcome good behavior and spurn bad. The cyber equivalent would allow individuals to block annoying posters. And show a poster how many users block his posts. Who would keep posting trash that no one ever saw?

As in real life, regulation (moderators or whatever) should be the tool of last resort to handle persistant and nasty offenders. Good regulation works like the emergency stop cable on a train: in extreme situations only.

    Tao Te Ching: Verse 57

    If you want to be a great leader,
    you must learn to follow the Tao.
    Stop trying to control.
    Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
    and the world will govern itself.

    The more prohibitions you have,
    the less virtuous people will be.
    The more weapons you have,
    the less secure people will be.
    The more subsidies you have,
    the less self-reliant people will be.

    Therefore the Master says:
    I let go of the law,
    and people become honest.
    I let go of economics,
    and people become prosperous.
    I let go of religion,
    and people become serene.
    I let go of all desire for the common good,
    and the good becomes common as grass.

    -- Lao-Tzu
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-- George Washington
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