Black Rock City Address System Unveiled

No matter your skills or interests, there's a way for you to participate in the creation and manifestation of Black Rock City, both at the event and year-round.

Finding Camps is:

Good
21
48%
Bad
7
16%
Indifferent
16
36%
 
Total votes : 44

Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:33 am

What movies? I could give you my list-o-favorites....

That way when we "bump" into one-another we'd have something to talk about other than trying to kill each other. :lol:

Nice Manson picture, btw. He is the magical hippie guru, you know... if you want to distance yourself from hippies, then Manson isn't your guy.
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can I just say

Postby Nutmeg Alfredo » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:02 pm

that this

thread has kinda revived my sense of burning man being a force for good and fun? damn, thank you to those who have participated. and Donna for creating that idea and website for us to bounce off of.

I feel like the intelligent people are getting lost in the crowd at burning man. well, this thread reminded me that you're all still there. you silly elves.

ok, back to being on my back, resting, post ankle twist while tide-pooling. Wish it had been doing that cool pakour stuff... wonder if that will be done on the playa, ever? I remember an obstacle course from a couple years ago, you ended up in a vat of stuffed pillows...

happy new year, everyone. oh, and to the person who is sending themselves a bottle, know that something that heavy will definitely require a sort of

how shall I say

um

starts with a B, 5 letters, Ends with an E.. helps grease the wheels if you know what i mean.

on the other end, be prepared, possibly to share something with the deliverator.
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Re: can I just say

Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:09 pm

Nutmeg Alfredo wrote:I feel like the intelligent people are getting lost in the crowd at burning man. well, this thread reminded me that you're all still there. you silly elves.


Ah... brings to mind all the lovely deep conversations on the playa about this, that and the other thing.

Thank you for the rekindling.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:16 pm

dumbass wrote...."Ah............ the power............ the shear power I hold........

I can annoy the annoying - what a gift...

Really, Simon, I will ignore you on the playa.... no problem...."



_________________

so it's safe to assume that amongst all of your other internet-downloaded degrees, you also are a beautician, or possibly Hair Stylist with a LOT of 'Shear' Ego.....

oh. oh donna, hell has a special place for you....


DUMB CUNTSVILLE....

*clicks heels firmly*
breathe deep, the playa is the dust of your ancestors

A gift for the Playa
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:03 pm

Simon, on Simon... where does all your anger come from....??

Okay, we know you like to insult women... we know you like to insult people with degrees, we know you live in NYC, we know you don't like bad spelling or incorrect usage of words ... um... okay, so you don't like much.

But we don't know why. Care to divulge?

Oh... we know you like to fight. You really like trying to make other mad... misery loves company?
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Postby mdmf007 » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:16 pm

Could just be one of those unanswered questions in life. On the other hand some people's default mode is just angry.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:22 pm

So true, so true...

But now... what does all of this have to do with the BRC Address system?

Right... nothing.
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Postby the fire elf » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:33 pm

as each end of the system is people oriented, at least people who happen to announce where they're at

perhaps you should try to work through all the uncomfort involved in awareness via human...

in the interest of a better post system and all, of course
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:57 pm

fire elf,
but of course... we will work through this just fine.. this isn't the only posting arena. Really there is no problem, some system is needed to find camps or else we can just keep on not being able to find camps. And unless someone else comes up with a better system... not only that but we want consensus with those who care. This isn't "my" system. It's either "our" system or it will not work at all.
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Postby the fire elf » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:15 pm

donna matrix,

if the gift... and yet it's either 'ours' or it won't work... cast a city wide net, and unless someone comes up with something better the movement is made... 'system is needed to find camps' smells very little like an act of radical self expression, are you sure this is the place for it?
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Postby mayavin » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:19 pm

granted you could recontextualize...

but need-based recontextualizing isnt very self sufficient... and it's a little churchy
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:04 pm

okay... what if BMorg did away with streets - would that make the experience better?

How about no printed literature? no map at all. would that be better?
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Postby Donna Matrix » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:14 pm

How can radical self-reliance and radical self-expression co-exist then? Having a way to find places is self-reliance. How is not having a way to find camps demeaning radical self-expression? Isn't it radical self-expression to do what ever one wants to do when one wants to do it..

Oh.. why do I bother....

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I would just like

Postby Friendly Jen » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:02 pm

to point out that at the present moment the BRCPO is just a themecamp. While I feel that the new addressing scheme is a good one, and could theoretically be implmented by window workers I'm not sure the general populace (who don't already bring mailboxes) might not catch on.

I would really like people to be making associations with us to the USPS or the burningman organization. I don't want any part of either.

Maybe we could refuse mail on the basis that it takes longer to deliver stuff not addressed.

Or priority rankings so if it's just a note to your bud u are the tripped over if it doesn't make it...

but if its some kind of wedding proposall.....
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Postby philosopher » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:06 pm

You know, dear Burner Pals, I don't hear anyone complaining about being able to make themselves reasonably understood because there are too many resources available in English.

A more expressive address system serves several purposes, chief among them making it easier to find a location. To the extent that our address system lacks expressiveness, those purposes will be less well served. Being against expressiveness is an interesting choice, but more on psychological than intellectual grounds.

We would like our address system proposal to succeed in its purpose of supporting a high level of expressiveness. Comments so far (thanks again, everyone) have got Donna and me working on the next version, soon to be posted. We think we are now closer to success.

But, as Moe said to the other two Stooges once upon a time, "If at first you don't succeed, keep sucking."
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Postby Donna Matrix » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:16 am

The system is quite easy and can be used many ways.

Black Rock City Address System

Four Elements of an Address

1. The road the camp is on
2. A relationship symbol
3. The cross road
4. The position

1st road / symbol / cross road / position

A @ 6:30 /*\>

Each address has a combination of the above four elements.

This formula can be used many ways. The name of the road can be used or just the capital letter. Any symbol can be used to decribe the relationship between the streets. Position can be )'( /*\ or inner / outer or any other decripter you can think of.

The forumula and the idea that you are labeling A SPOT not a camp is the underlying theme.

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Flawed

Postby Zhust » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:17 am

Let's say my camp is halfway between E and F, halfway between 9:00 and 9:30 — right in the middle of the block.

Is that:
  • E @ 9 /*\>
  • E @ 9:30 </*\
  • F @ 9 )*(>
  • F @ 9:30 <)*(


I think none of these describe where my camp is because they also identify the four corners on the outside of the block. Plus, does the ">" descriptor mean "the location is greater than the identified clock position," "the identified clock position is greater than the location," "to the right as facing [man/mountain]", or "further away from center camp"? That just dawned on me as I was trying to list things out correctly after having been away from the instructions for a few days.

But if you said something like E:M @ 9:15 or E:30 @ 9:15 or E.5 @ 9:15, then you're right on it. I prefer the alphabetic version E:M but that might lead to confusion when it's E:C, for instance — does that mean halfway further (based on A-H) or 1/10th the way in (A-Z)?

Of course New Math solves all this with A-Z meaning digits 0-25. E-B/C means "E and a half" ... of course, so does E-J/Y or E-D/H. And then E.M is also possible: right between E.LZ and E.MA.

I suspect that your best bet, Donna, would be to enumerate all the possible ways to make unambiguous addresses. But that's just me ... making lists and organizing things is so fucking exciting. You should have seen the minimum/maximum itinerary for the trip across the country that still makes my girlfriend's eyes roll.
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Re: Flawed

Postby Donna Matrix » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:43 pm

Jaycerochester said: Let's say my camp is halfway between E and F, halfway between 9:00 and 9:30 — right in the middle of the block.

Is that:
F @ 9 )*(>

E @ 9 /*\>

E @ 9:30 </*\

F @ 9:30 <)*(

I think none of these describe where my camp is because they also identify the four corners on the outside of the block. Plus, does the ">" descriptor mean "the location is greater than the identified clock position," "the identified clock position is greater than the location," "to the right as facing [man/mountain]", or "further away from center camp"? That just dawned on me as I was trying to list things out correctly after having been away from the instructions for a few days.


REPLY (can't get the quote feature to work)

> means Right
< means Left

Right and Left are used for Clock Street to designate which side of the street the camp is on.
And Right and Left are used for corners along with /*\ and )'( .
Hope that makes sense? You are right that the addresses you made designate corners.

The system is actually quite flexible and one camp could have different addresses, but hopefully all of them would lead to the same place. I'll try making a few.

A camp half way between E-F and half way betwen 9:00 & 9:30
Addresses for that camp could be:
EF @ 9:15 [read - between E and F at 9:15]
E2 @ 9:15 /*\ [read - 2nd camp on E mountain-side at 9:15]
F2 @ 9:15 )'( [read - 2nd camp in on F man-side at 9:15]

BTW - I love the way you think. You're alphabet division is truly mind twisting.. which I appreciate. You know, it's scary cuz I could actually follow it, but I don't know about fellow burners. Hehehe.

I have spent hours trying to figure out esoteric addresses, but I have to say I didn't think of one half way in and half way in again. Good point.

Thanks...
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:29 am

Really disappointing to see the petty reactions and hate-filled comments directed to the OP.
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Re: Flawed

Postby Zhust » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:11 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:> means Right
< means Left

Right and Left are used for Clock Street to designate which side of the street the camp is on.


Right, but what direction are you facing? I mean, "E )*(" is on E-street, on the side closest to the Man, but "9:00 >" means to the right of 9:00 — does that mean "more clockwise" or "less clockwise"; 9:01 or 8:59? Is 9:00 @ E )*(> mean you're facing the Man on the 9:00 and E corner so the address is at 8:59? But then if you're at 9:00 @ E /*\> then you're facing away from the man and the address is at 9:01?

I just think the symbolic notation is ambiguous whereas 9:01 and 8:59 aren't. 9:00+ or 9:00- (or 9:00++ if you're so inclined) give some mathematical familiarity.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:40 pm

Yes and No... any set of symbols can mean anything.. so the point of this whole thread is: what are the people who want to find camps willing to agree on (yes, I'am leaving out all those people who don't want to find camps or don't care - because - they don't care).

We were thinking that every symbol would be orientated to the Man... so right and left are a person's right and left when facing the Man.

Your way would work just as well - if it was designated so. We just thought that we would keep the Clock numbers flowing in their natural direction around the circle rather than bring them down the ABC streets.

This is how I tested the system. Up at 2005 BM I walked around and took stock of what I could see from the streets. So, the Man was always visable. Then I looked at camps / camp signs / other markers of camps and tried to visualize an address from the street perspective as if I was holding a letter with an address.

The biggest problem was ascertaining the inside Clock number on the outside streets because of their length. This could be fixed if DPW placed a marker half way down these streets. (but then I would like to see 10' bike paths half way between each clock street for at least the outlying ABC streets - this would also cut down on people riding through people's camps).
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Postby Donna Matrix » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:48 pm

I read your post again.. to make sure I understood your comment... :)

The problem I had walking around was sometimes I got confused :oops: which direction I was headed in - the clock designations 9:00+ and 9:00- are very logical but personally I would have to figure it out which way is up the clock and which way is down the clock. But on the other hand, I generally can remember my right from my left.

:arrow: And, more importantly, if the camp has a sign or other marker, then the any close address will do - it will get you close enough to the camp to be able to look around and see their sign.
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Postby the fire elf » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:52 pm

And the sign says "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I put my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine outstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that, huh, me working for you"

[Chorus:]
Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
Fuckin' up the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

And the sign says "Anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight"
So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house
Hey! What gives you the right!
To put up a fence and keep me out, or to keep Mother Nature in
If God was here, he'd tell it to your face, man, you're some kind of sinner

[Chorus]

Oh, say now mister, can't you read
You got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't watch, no you can't eat, you ain't supposed to be here

And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" - uh!

[Solo]

And the sign says "Everybody welcome, come in, kneel down and pray"
But then they passed around a plate at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own fuckin' sign
I said, "Thank you Lord for thinking 'bout me, I'm alive and doing fine", oh

[Chorus 2x]
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Postby Donna Matrix » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:01 pm

Black Rock City Address System

Four Elements of an Address

1. The road the camp is on
2. A relationship symbol
3. The cross road
4. The position

1st road / symbol / cross road / position

A @ 6:30 /*\>

Each address has a combination of the above four elements.

This formula can be used many ways. The name of the road can be used or just the capital letter. Any symbol can be used to describe the relationship between the streets. Position can be )'( /*\ or inner / outer & right / left or any other descripter you can think of. Just remember that on the streets there is only one position (either that side or the other side) but for corners and plaza there are four corners and each corner needs two positions to mark them properly.

The formula and the idea that you are labeling A SPOT not a camp is the underlying theme.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:25 am

SECOND DRAFT... possibly the last?

Black Rock City Address System

Four Elements of an Address

1. The road the camp is on
2. A relationship symbol
3. The cross road
4. The position

1st road / symbol / cross road / position

A @ 6:30 )'(>

Each address has a combination of the above four elements.

This formula can be used many ways. The name of the road can be used or just the capital letter. Any symbol can be used to describe the relationship between the streets. Position can be )'( [manside], ^ or /*\ [mountain side] or just "inner" [manside] / "outer" [mountain side] for Letter streets & then of course > for right and < for left for clock streets or any other descripter you can think of (left /right is your L/R when facing the man).

Just remember that on Clock and Letter streets there is only one position needed (either that side or the other side) but for corners and plaza there are four corners and each corner needs two positions to mark them properly. The four corners for B and 8:00 are
    8:00@B )'(>
    8:00@B /*\>
    8:00@B </*\
    8:00@B <)'(

The formula and the idea that you are labeling A SPOT not a camp is the underlying theme. Any additional specificity is also welcome: such as double positions ( <<or>>) for "off road" camps or numbers after letters (B2) to indicate camps inside camp area.
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:03 pm

ahhh, too logical for Burning Man
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Postby Donna Matrix » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:27 pm

tis true... but the streets seem to work just fine (except me, I ride through camps)

There is a lot of logic in BM. why not a little more?
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Postby deliveryboyespecialle » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:18 am

I'm just thrilled to wander back to the ePlaya and find people talking about the BRCPO at all.

Bravo.
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Postby Donna Matrix » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:03 pm

deliveryboyespecialle....

ah your name conjures up many a past vision of young virile men delivering mail - there was this one young man I remember...

*this is a public board..... discretion will be used here*

More mail is a good thing!
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Postby Rat Bastard » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:52 am

WTF happened to common sense? Libido Lounge was at 9:10 Estuary. If you want to get complicated we were on the man side. If anything, make the mountain side an odd number. Like Yes, Please across the street from us would be 9:11 Estuary.

Is it that hard or are you that stoned?
Read my posts with a grain of salt.
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