Oasis Dome

Oasis Dome

Postby falk » Mon May 02, 2005 11:57 pm

This weekend I commited myself to my Oasis Dome project. The EMT has been purchased.

A quick overview: The Oasis dome is a small oasis of moisture and living things in the middle of the desert. The Oasis Dome is a geodesic dome, 32 feet in diameter, sealed to retain humidity. It contains a circular fountain in the center, misters in the ceiling, a number of tropical plants, and possibly some massage tables.

Visit the web page for more details.
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Preliminary task list

Postby falk » Tue May 03, 2005 12:08 am

So, here's what needs to be done:
  • Build the dome: Cut EMT, Flatten ends, Drill, Obtain bolts and wingnuts, Paint, Test assembly
  • Choose canvas material, find source. Sew it all together.
  • Build fountain. Need: help with design, possible help with construction, an artist to paint it to look like marble.
  • Build or obtain massage tables and ancilary furniture.
  • Obtain chairs
  • Obtain tropical plants
  • Find a way to haul all this stuff, plus a lot of water to Burning Man.
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Re: Oasis Dome

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed May 04, 2005 11:04 am

falk wrote:The EMT has been purchased.
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Postby headquarters » Wed May 04, 2005 4:28 pm

i presume an EMT is not an emergency medical tech. but i do suppose if you cut them, they would be able to fix themselves up pretty well. anyway what is an EMT?

where are you hauling all this stuff from? base of operations?
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Postby zorro sings » Wed May 04, 2005 4:55 pm

Seems like once a year someone comes on here with an imaginative but grandiose scheme for a camp that seems,by looking at the needs list, is lacking in materials,manpower,and money to see it properly through.Throw in an extremely late start and the odds of success of your venture are quite long.Universal advice here is to check out other camps at this years Project that could be similar in nature.Find out how they did it,meet some people etc.Hey,but an admirable venture and would be glad to drop in if it becomes a reality.
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Postby falk » Thu May 05, 2005 12:29 am

headquarters wrote:i presume an EMT is not an emergency medical tech. but i do suppose if you cut them, they would be able to fix themselves up pretty well. anyway what is an EMT?

where are you hauling all this stuff from? base of operations?


Electrical Metal Tubing. Standard construction material for geodesic domes.

Base of operations is San Francisco bay area. I have a few people interested in helping, but I'll probably need more. I'm not worried about getting the dome built in time, but the fountain is problematic, as well as shipping all the water up. We'll work it out. This isn't my first burn, and I'm going up with some very experienced burners.
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Re: Oasis Dome

Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Thu May 05, 2005 8:15 am

falk wrote:This weekend I commited myself to my Oasis Dome project. The EMT has been purchased.

A quick overview: The Oasis dome is a small oasis of moisture and living things in the middle of the desert. The Oasis Dome is a geodesic dome, 32 feet in diameter, sealed to retain humidity. It contains a circular fountain in the center, misters in the ceiling, a number of tropical plants, and possibly some massage tables.

Visit the web page for more details.


Zorro Sings makes a good point, and I notice you used the word "commited" so that's the operative word, yes? Please know that I offer these thoughts in the spirit of support and contribution:

So that it does not become an unwelcoming hot box with unbearable humidity, you may also add to your list a large evaporative cooler, generator, and gas to run it. I read somewhere on E-playa a while back about a tent that used a moisture collection system within the tent to then filter and recycle the moisture through the swamp cooler. Run a search and you may find that helpful thread.

Best of success to you and your crew.
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Re: Oasis Dome

Postby falk » Thu May 05, 2005 3:20 pm

Mister Jellyfish Mister wrote:So that it does not become an unwelcoming hot box with unbearable humidity, you may also add to your list a large evaporative cooler, generator, and gas to run it....


Yes, there's always the possibility that the dome will be unbearably hot -- I'm hoping to test this out locally before I set up on the Playa. The purpose of the internal misters and fountain is to provide evaporative cooling without having to bring in a swamp cooler. It may be that if the dome is sealed too well, then the interior will become hot and humid. If this happens, we may have to vent the dome to let the humid air be replaced by dry air. This will play havoc with water consumption. I have no answer to these problems until I actually test it out.
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Challenging, but doable

Postby Scathingharpy » Tue May 10, 2005 9:03 am

if you have the right team. I can only presume you feel confident in the dome building arts? Have you a solid plan for the canvas covering? Initially, I was interested in assisting so I could finally work out the problem that has been nagging me-HOW to measure and make a cover for domes...I have dabbled in the past and not wholly succeeded, but that was with a 5 pointed pvc dome, with plastic tarps and fat grommets on site...

but the dimensions has always been a source of confusion for me. Gimme a call, maybe we can discuss ideas...for example, if I know dimensions of your dome, I can build a model of it and make a model for the cover.

I know where to get the material, too. Lets talk. 510-872-1229

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Postby Lassen Forge » Tue May 10, 2005 9:28 am

I love this idea! I think if done right you will be able to recycle a lot of the water used for cooling as long as you have a good moisture control plan developed.

The "hot box" syndrome is a real threat, tho... esp. in a sealed environment in direct sunlight in the desert summer sun. A suggestion is to use a reflective shade cloth. I have the link to it somewhere (rustles through electronic files) ... I can't find it (must be at home) but they do an aluminized woven cloth (as well as traditional shade cloth material) that will prolly be a lifesaver... otherwise it *will* be hot inside. (Think inside a sealed parked car in the sunlight!) You need something that will not only radiate the heat and IR energy back off the dome but allow a thermal cooling effect between the dome structure (which I would guess would be a clear mylar or somesuch) and your outer shade dome. A double-wall dome may be the best answer... tho it would be a bit pricey and complex...

Even then I would make a contingency to have some kind of heat-exchanger system to get hotter air out and cooler air in - even not counting the human element, your plants may not survive the intense heat without it (not to mention air stagnation and o2 concentration/co2 depletion issues). We did a "project" for a friend a while back (can't go into more detail on-line, sorry) but even in the foggy and cold bay area we ran into this when dealing with a sealed ecosystem, and it was a bear to sort out. The dome engineering may well be the easy part of it compared to climactic control...
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Re: Challenging, but doable

Postby falk » Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 am

Scathingharpy wrote:if you have the right team. I can only presume you feel confident in the dome building arts? Have you a solid plan for the canvas covering?


Building it is the least of my problems. I helped build one for other folks last year, and it was easy. I have a fully equipped shop. I've written software to design the dome and it works great. Half the struts are cut already, and I've already made arrangements to flatten them. The metal part of the dome will be done in a month.

The covering will be no problem. I have sewing machines and know how to use them. Writing the software to generate the cutting lists will be trivial; I'll probably do it this weekend. I still need to find a source of material though --- I could stitch up some cheap plastic tarps for almost no money, or I could get some nice canvas. I'm leaning towards the latter, but I don't know where to get it or what it would cost. Especially since I'd like something treated against the sun and the dust.

Where I'm lacking is warm bodies; there's still only five of us on the project, and two are out of town and won't be able to help with the prep work. I need people to help assemble the dome, design/build/obtain the fountain, obtain plants and furniture, and help with the planning. I have awesome construction skills, but lack artistic talent.

Initially, I was interested in assisting so I could finally work out the problem that has been nagging me-HOW to measure and make a cover for domes...I have dabbled in the past and not wholly succeeded, but that was with a 5 pointed pvc dome, with plastic tarps and fat grommets on site...


Ahhh, you definately want to talk to me then. Go visit http://geodome.sourceforge.net/ and you''ll see some snapshots of strut cutting lists and assembly diagrams generated by my program. The canvas covering diagrams will be similar.

I'll contact you off line later.
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Reflection cover

Postby Scathingharpy » Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 am

What if we consider a canvas cover, and an additional reflective cover with the mylar or other reflective tarping? Sewn together, or separate...

I dunno. I built a model of the "cardboard" domes, so feel pretty confident that I can figure out dimensions of the triangles for the cover-what material it is to be made of is annother thing entirely.

I too worked on a similar ecosystem project-a simple fan keeps air moving quite adequately.

Any change grey water can be used instead of fresh? or is that just wishful thinking?

Much to consider.

So when are you holding a pow wow for this project? See, you have me thinking about how to solve the problems now...I think I own it. Consider me Covergirl. Unless, of course, you have a master sail maker already engaged, that is.
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Tue May 10, 2005 10:04 am

I have toyed with this concept for years. I hope you make it happen!

One thought - if you collect the moisture for re-use, you may need to filter/clean the water or risk getting shut down by the Nevada Health Department. Most public pools at Burningman get shut down due to this each year, and a dome where enough water collects to pool on the flor would almost certainly be considered a pool in the eyes of the Health Department (wether the water is recycled or not).

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Postby falk » Tue May 10, 2005 10:09 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:I love this idea! I think if done right you will be able to recycle a lot of the water used for cooling as long as you have a good moisture control plan developed.

The "hot box" syndrome is a real threat, tho... esp. in a sealed environment in direct sunlight in the desert summer sun. A suggestion is to use a reflective shade cloth. I have the link to it somewhere (rustles through electronic files) ... I can't find it (must be at home) but they do an aluminized woven cloth (as well as traditional shade cloth material) that will prolly be a lifesaver... otherwise it *will* be hot inside. (Think inside a sealed parked car in the sunlight!)


Yes, the hotbox effect is my greatest fear. I'm probably going to design the dome so that it can easily be vented. If it gets too hot and stuffy, you vent out all the hot humid air and let in hot dry air. You then turn on the misters to cool the dome down, turning the hot dry air into cool moist air, which eventually becomes hot moist air and you start all over again. I have no idea how to estimate how much water this is going to require.

I toyed with putting an out layer of reflective space blankets on the dome to keep the heat out, but I'm worried that the interior of the dome will be too dark. That aluminized cloth you mentioned sounds ideal; I hope you can find the link.

This photo from the Pacific Domes web site gives an idea of the ambience I'm thinking of for the interior, but maybe not quite so bright:

http://www.pacificdomes.com/images/dome ... _large.jpg

A double-wall dome may be the best answer... tho it would be a bit pricey and complex...


Yeah, I also thought some sort of double-wall design, but that's beyond my price range and design skills.

...even in the foggy and cold bay area we ran into this when dealing with a sealed ecosystem, and it was a bear to sort out. The dome engineering may well be the easy part of it compared to climactic control...


Yeah, I don't think I want to *completely* seal the dome, just close it enough to retain the cooler moister air inside.
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Postby falk » Tue May 10, 2005 4:12 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:I have toyed with this concept for years. I hope you make it happen!

One thought - if you collect the moisture for re-use, you may need to filter/clean the water


At one point I thought I'd arrange a collecting trough along the perimeter of the dome to collect condensation on the dome walls, but it seems a little difficult to do, and at any rate I don't expect much if any condensation.

At my camp last year, we kept two potted palms alive by feeding them our grey water; it worked pretty well, so I anticipate using plants to process most of the camp's grey water. Not all grey water is acceptable to plants, of course.
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Postby mamagrrl » Thu May 19, 2005 12:29 am

falk wrote:I toyed with putting an out layer of reflective space blankets on the dome to keep the heat out, but I'm worried that the interior of the dome will be too dark. That aluminized cloth you mentioned sounds ideal; I hope you can find the link.


You're looking for Aluminet.
http://www6.mailordercentral.com/igcusa ... ?dept=1117

I'm considering gluing on tin foil, or maybe mylar to my dome cover. Bounce some of that solar energy off of the dome skin.
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Postby falk » Thu May 19, 2005 1:11 am

Thanx mamagrrl; The struts for the frame are cut now, and we're pricing cotton canvas (ouch, expensive!). The aluminet might make an excellent outer layer for cooling.
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Postby Elemental666 » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:19 am

how your project doing?

I'm finishing up my r12 3v and sourcing my covering now, I was thinking canvas as well and the best price I have found so far is this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=34879
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=34880
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=34881

3.5-4+square feet/ dollar, I have purchased it yet as I'm still exploring ideas.
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Postby falk » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:27 pm

Elemental666 wrote:how your project doing?


Moving a little more slowly that I would have hoped, but not slowly enough to have me worried. All the pipe is cut, and 40% if it is squished. Drilling and bending should go fairly quickly.

http://www.efalk.org/OasisDome/photos.html

I'm finishing up my r12 3v and sourcing my covering now, I was thinking canvas as well and the best price I have found so far is this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=34879
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=34880
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=34881

3.5-4+square feet/ dollar, I have purchased it yet as I'm still exploring ideas.


That's better than the best price I've been able to come up with. I'm not sure if I like the look of it though. If you wind up getting it, let us know how it works out.

Right now, I'm exploring these options:
  • Billboard vinyl: cheap, comes in very large sheets, easy to work with. Requires advertising be scrubbed off or painted over.
  • Sunforger canvas: http://www.hamiltondrygoods.com/canvas.html: best material of all, natural material, expensive ($.39/sq ft), involves a lot of sewing.
  • Canvas tarps: http://www.tarpsplus.com/suheducata.html: heavy duty treated canvas, large sheets (less cutting and sewing), expensive ($.38/sq ft)
  • Treat our own canvas. Buy untreated canvas, treat with Canvak. Not sure what the price would be. Involves a lot of sewing plus applying the canvak.


Currently we're leaning towards the billboard vinyl, because it's cheaper and involves less sewing.
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Postby CagedKitty » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:09 am

If you're worried about the reflective cover making it too dark inside the dome you can put it on top and the west side only. That's where the sun will be at the hottest parts of the day, and the light can come in from the other sides. Just a little space between the reflective cover and the dome canvas with open ends to let the heat out will keep the dome a lot cooler. That might make the cover into a sail, so probably breathable fabric, or something that can be retracted in high winds. No, I haven't built a dome before, just applying what I know about other things and pretending to know more than I do.
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Dome frame is complete!

Postby falk » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:53 am

Well, it took a couple weeks more than I planned, but the basic dome structure is now complete. Thanks to cagedkitty, mamagrrl, Scathingharpy, and everybody else who worked on it with me. Hopefully the canvas will go more quickly. 5 weeks to go!

Photos at file:///home/falconer/falk/Geodome/Web/photos.html
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Postby Kinetic IV » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:55 am

Photos at file:///home/falconer/falk/Geodome/Web/photos.html


Hyperlink check? I'd love to take a look but I can't get there from here!
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Postby falk » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:06 am

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Postby falk » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:26 pm

zorro sings wrote:Seems like once a year someone comes on here with an imaginative but grandiose scheme for a camp that seems,by looking at the needs list, is lacking in materials,manpower,and money to see it properly through.Throw in an extremely late start and the odds of success of your venture are quite long.Universal advice here is to check out other camps at this years Project that could be similar in nature.Find out how they did it,meet some people etc.Hey,but an admirable venture and would be glad to drop in if it becomes a reality.


Well, I'd actually like to say thanks for putting a scare into me like that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have rolled up my sleeves and gotten to work.

It's been a long hard few months, but we installed the last grommet a couple hours ago, and the Oasis Dome is now COMPLETE. With one week to spare. *phew*.

We'll be at 7:30 and Ego. See you there.
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Postby zorro sings » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:21 pm

Good on ya!Glad I heped albiet in a strange fashion.
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Postby falk » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:48 pm

Thanks; not quite out of the woods yet. Still need water barrels (my primary source doesn't have any, and my secondary source didn't answer the phone.)

Also, our rental truck can only carry about 6-7 barrels. That *should* be enough, but I won't know for sure until I try it.

-ed
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Postby falk » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:33 am

Image
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Postby spectabillis » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:22 am

wait... that looks too clean to be on the playa
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Postby falk » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:23 am

spectabillis wrote: wait... that looks too clean to be on the playa


Yeah, the misting system did a great job of keeping the dust down. During the Friday dust storms, we had to keep peeking out the doorways to see if the storms were still going on.
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Postby mars » Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:54 pm

Wow....beautiful dome space!!!!!
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