Solar Ignorant...

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Solar Ignorant...

Postby Mr.Powers » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:18 pm

Would like to be able to power Two F48A - 48" T-12 Black light Fixtures.

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Would I be able to do this with solar power or whats the best way. (not messing with a noisy generator)
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Postby frenchblue1 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:35 pm

First, I assume you are Joking because to power lights via solar you of course need the sun and seeing you want to power black lights...well, you get the Irony.
If you are serious you will need to have a converter for the battery pack you plan to power the lights with. The solar panel would be used to recharge the batteries. Why not just by the battery opperated black lights??
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Postby Token » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:04 am

The black lights listed are what, 80W each...

So a 200W inverter is 1.7A ... which draws 1.7*10 = 17A from a battery.

I will assume you want to run the lights for 8 hours... so 8*17 = 136Ah - This is one big battery. I suggest two golf cart 130A, 6V in series.

Now you need to charge those batteries during the day. Lets say 10 hours of charge time each day. 136Ah / 10 = 13A of charging for 10 hours will recharge your battery. You will probably need 225W worth of solar panels and a charge controller to get this done.

The inverters are cheap, say $50
Batteries, $200
Charge Controller, $100
Solar Panel, $1200 to $1500 depending on configuration
Cargo space and reduced gas mileage to haul all this junk to Burning Man.
~ $2000 for 200W or $10 per Watt.

or you can get a nice EU1000 Honda generator that is super quiet, produces 10 times more power and costs less than $600.
~ $600 fro 1000W or $0.6 per Watt.
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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:54 am

or you can get a nice EU1000 Honda generator that is super quiet, produces 10 times more power and costs less than $600.
~ $600 fro 1000W or $0.6 per Watt.


I agree completely that this is the most practical way. Those EU series generators are more quiet than some of my computers.

He can probably get solar panels a little cheaper than your quotes but he'll probably spend close to $1000. Most people think of solar as free energy, but it's really expensive now, though the best way to bring the cost down is for people to buy solar.
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Postby mksnowboarder » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:48 am

[quote="MikeVDS"]I agree completely that this is the most practical way.[/quote]

Maybe he's just trying to support this year's theme. Hell, if I had more money (or even anything that I need to provide power for), I'd look into it too. While it's expensive, he could theoretically continue to use all the equiptment he purchases long after his week at BM

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Postby AntiM » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:17 am

Hmm, we run florescent lights in camp. No inverter, they're 12v compatible, we use a socket adapter with alligator clips. One 12v deep cell marine battery charged off a $70 cheapo 13w briefcase panel runs the camp lights well enough, although we do have a 45w set available ($250 or so, on sale). We've just never used the larger panels. Always bring them, haven't needed them Have another battery on the bike for lights, two small blacklights and a rope or two, plus the running lights and head/tail lights, the charge on that one lasts nearly all week. True, we don't run the bike lights for eight continuous hours, and we do throw it on the solar charger now and again.

We haven't tried our larger blacklight like that one, but I say go for the battery set up anyway. Can't hurt to try the battery/solar combo if not interested in a genny. The stuff will still be useful. We can't run a generator unless we quit camping in Hushville. Fooling with solar is well worth it to us.

And yes, I know Ohm's law, and yes, the math doesn't seem to add up. But the set up we have is working. You tell the electrons they're being unreasonable law-breakers!
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Postby Token » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:18 am

AntiM, Ohm's Law don' lie. The 12V Compact Fluorescents yourLarry got at the Flying-J are a one-few watt models. If you had 30 of em, maybe then you would use the same energy a single F48A chokes down. The OP was very specific about wanting to run two 80W bulbs.

Maybe an alternative would serve a better purpose.

Instead of the 80W monsters, perhaps a dozen CCFL's in UV could be used. This way the power requirement drops to ~ 12W. You can get a small 10W panel and battery for $100. THe lights would be ~ $150.

http://www.vibelights.com/coccliki.html

T
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Postby Dork » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:49 am

Uh, those bulbs are 40W each. Maybe add in a few more watts for the fixture.
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Postby MikeVDS » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:50 am

Maybe he's just trying to support this year's theme.


That is probably one of the reasons, which is as good as any. Also he's supporting the future development of the technology and increasing his own personal knowledge on the subject. I did not mean for it to sound like he shouldn't do it, just consider what he's really doing.

I'm only using a little solar and I'm trying to use it in a place where people will notice it being used. It's a very simple 12v set-up for our art-shower. It's used more as a display than anything else since our generator could do the job just as well, but it is a small, semi-practical application for others to see and start some discussion.
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Postby AntiM » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:45 am

Token wrote:AntiM, Ohm's Law don' lie. The 12V Compact Fluorescents yourLarry got at the Flying-J are a one-few watt models. If you had 30 of em, maybe then you would use the same energy a single F48A chokes down. The OP was very specific about wanting to run two 80W bulbs.
T


Ah, I know, I'm just embarrassed I can't figure power consumption out anymore without resorting to a book.
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Postby Token » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:39 pm

Dork wrote:Uh, those bulbs are 40W each. Maybe add in a few more watts for the fixture.


Oops, damn straight they are. Thanks Dork.

OK, so all the figuring I did, cut it in half.
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Postby Mr.Powers » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:59 am

Haha, thanks for all the input. My wifes father and I came up with a solution that will work awesome. Really only need to run them when either my wife or I am their. So, I don't think solar is going to work for me.


Why not just by the battery operated black lights??


In my experience the ones that you put batteries in just don't have the out put I want. I am looking at filling my whole shade area with black light or at least a good portion from the center out. (20' x 20' area) I throw an annual Halloween party and I have the whole place lit in black light. Going to simulate that in a smaller confined area at BM. :P
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Postby gyre » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:40 am

You can run 40 watt bulbs off a battery.
A PLS set may be more efficient.
LED uv may be more efficient in this case.

You just need a 12 volt ballast for your light.
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Postby spectabillis » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:37 am

hey now.. no need to be racist, give white lights a chance.
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Postby gyre » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:02 am

http://www.thinlite.com/products.htm

These prices seem high but they have a real selection.
http://www.12volt.com.au/redirect.html? ... ights.html

I don't see fluorescents on here but there may be useful info for someone.http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/archive/index.php/

I can't find my source right now.
ULite it is a usa made 13 watt pl company.
Real Goods has screw in 12 volt fluorescents, but no black light.

Lowes carries a cheapo chinese 12 volt 13 watt- $20.

Of course, you can use a good inverter to power several.
It's nice to be able to use them separately.
12 volt will be more efficient.

http://www.sunelco.com/sunelcostore/pro ... tartpage=1
http://www.sunelco.com/
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