balloons

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balloons

Postby Alex_uk » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:09 am

just some brief advice if any could help.......working on a project that would involve the lifting of object into the air with balloons, these would be to quite a height 50-100 or so feet. any ideas on what bm may say to this, would it break any rules safety wise or anything like that.

bassically can i lift "ART" with balloons?

if i can, then i intend to create lsomething abit diff for the sky of burning man 2005.

also has anyone seen anything like this, this is my first year and it doesnt seem to me that anything siomialr has been doen (at least noty in any photos i have seen)

thanks a bunch....alex
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Postby Dork » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:47 am

Yes, people have done it before. There was a really cool "eyes of god" piece last year. They suspended these lights that looked like a pair of blinking eyes from balloons at night and pulled the thing around with ropes. All you could see was the lights suspended in the air.

Something to keep in mind - the wind can be strong and gusty, so you need tough balloons with enough lift to overcome the weight of the art AND the force of the wind trying to get them to crash down to the ground.
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Postby Alex_uk » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:13 pm

thanks i hadnt thought babout wind force...will be sure to look up thaty factor
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Postby Alex_uk » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:24 pm

ok i like to plan early and need some help. does anyone know where i can get hold of helium gas in or around reno or just in general?
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Postby Sandwichman » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:43 pm

Alex_uk wrote:ok i like to plan early and need some help. does anyone know where i can get hold of helium gas in or around reno or just in general?


Party supply shops usually will rent out helium tanks. If you rented a few you would probably be able to fill the balloons and add more helium throughout the week. Here is a link I pulled from Google with a list of places in the Reno area that rent out carnival supplies. Good luck

http://www.partypop.com/Categories/Part ... eno_NV.htm

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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:21 pm

Also remember that the balloons will move about widely during high winds - and so will anything that is hanging from them. 70+mph winds can be expected. Be sure all of your connections are way stronger (and have multiple back-ups) than needed. And even then, a widely-moving balloon trails a widely moving cable - you want to have a LARGE clear area around your anchor system to avoid issues. Good luck! The "Eyes of God" were pretty cool last year...
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Postby GuinivereElise » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:19 pm

Correction:

Eyes of Gawd.

Concurrance:

they were damned cool!

I would talk to Buckethead Alien... he has experience in lifting helium balloons on the playa...
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Postby stuart » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:22 pm

ballons

anybody see the super awesome ballon/fish/kite/elwire/uv things in 2001? I saw them late one night out dancing at illuminaughty during a dust storm. Gorgeous and trippy as shit.

on another note...

anyone see Verakai? They had these awesome floaty things with video projected inside that I desperately want to recreate.
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:29 pm

you will want to check with air traffic control. BRC air may want a light. There are a lot takeoff\landings
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Postby Silver 2 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:05 pm

In 02 there was a group that inflated balloons and were lifting people up into the air. They had a whole lot of tanks and whole lot of balloons. I spent 4 or 5 hours with them helping drag the balloons to earth and helping hold them while a new person was hooked up. After a while some of the balloons popped and the lift went down to about 120 lbs. so I took to grabbing the harness (sp) belt they were using and flinging the people into the air. Great fun.

Anyway, the balloons were teathered with multiple climbing ropes, some really serious re-bar and the big truck that they were using to haul their equipment. I will say that holding the balloons in even the slightest breeze was difficult and we often had to wait to lift off when the wind came up.
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Postby buckethead alien » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:29 pm

My group reached 165 feet with a single 600-gram weather balloon for our nighttime light installation with no problem in 2003. After dark the wind usually dies down enough to fly big balloons. This year we are going higher and possibly doing multiples or moving the piece around. Federal (?) rules limit most tethered kites and balloons to 500 feet. PM me if you want to talk more.
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Postby Badger » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:35 pm

Alex,

Maybe have a try at something like this....

http://www.clusterballoon.org/
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Postby Alex_uk » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:49 am

thanks for the suggestion looks like a fantastic thing to do although not practical to my cause but cheers for looking out for me.

i can see why he has only had 17 flights have you seen the price of helium
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The Blimp

Postby trocar » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:24 pm

In 2001 some friends and myself did this project. We ordered 10 tanks of helium and had it delivered right to us at camp. On saturday they came back out and picked up the empty tanks. I think it held around 1500 cubic feet of helium. There were a bunch of lights, noise making devices, and a really nice EL wire marquee that said "Danger Flying Machine" in kanji. It looked pretty cool at night.
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Postby Alex_uk » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:08 am

wow right to the camp!!!


dont supose you remember who you ordered fromand. oh and rough price per tank and size
thanks
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Postby trocar » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:11 pm

The company was Norco, 740 Fairgrounds Road
Winnemucca, NV 89445. (775) 623-2200. Talk to Jay. He is super cool. In fact, if you do have them come out let me know we would like to see him again.

I'm sure the prices have changed since, but we paid $73/tank. Each tank holds 219 cubic feet of helium. Looks like they charged us $10 for delivery. Quite the deal considering its over 100 miles one way.

The wind was an issue. In the image above, the wind was really light and you can see how much that damn thing is being pushed. It was kind of fun trying to keep it under control.
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Postby Alex_uk » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:53 am

looks like these are the guys i will use. thanks very much.....ok just one more brain pick please....any advice on methods of tethering
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Postby robotland » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:09 am

Screw-in ground anchors- They can function as pulleys of sorts. Don't depend on one but rather install several, and if you're leaving them overnight, be sure they're flagged and lit.
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Postby trocar » Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:29 pm

When it was tied up on the ground, we used pretty heavy duty rebar pounded in the ground about 3.5'-4' at an angle. When it was out it was attached to a cart with a 75 lb deep cycle battery plus three people holding on to teathers at different points. The main teather was a 70' climbing rope with a pair of power cables (12 AWG) and 20 small (18 AWG) control wires for each of the circuits. The entire load was on the rope. A really important aspect was that the bottom 20' had EL wire coiled around it so the "kids" wouldn't walk/drive/ride into it.

I'm sure you have thought of this, but remember the playa is a little more than 4000' above sea level. This is going to play a part in the lifting capacity of the balloon. Specifically, you will need more helium than you would at sea level. Ideally, you won't want to fill the baloon so that the pressure is greater than the air pressure around it. The more it is pressureized the less of a lifting capacity it will have.

So what's the project? Let me know if I can help out with anymore info.
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Postby Alex_uk » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:51 am

well where to start......
im with the apokiliptika camp and my interperation of the apocalipse is a whole conspiracy theory abput the new world order etc (brief explanation of this on page 5 of the apokiliptika thread in camps and art and activities)

one of the simbols used by these secret organisations is the all seeing eye (big pyramid with an eye at the top, also found on american currency bills)

i am taking this and creating a large (ish) pyramid frame out of carbon fibre rods ( approx 7-9 feet high maybe more maybe less) and covering it in light silk and ilumintating form inside, the framework itself will be el wired and also an el wire eye on each side of the pyramid. underneath the camp camp logo (roughly same size but not 3 dimensional) will be hanging underneath (also el wired)

this i see as being raised as high as poss above the camp (i would like to see it quite high up so it can bve used as a navigation landmark by burners)

during the day ti wont be so impresive BUT at night the aim is to have this glowing bright pyramid floating looking over the festival (as if by some kind of mystic force) the all seeing is quite occultish and recognised widely as being a mystic image so although many burners will not know the story and conspiracy etc related to this symbol they will appreciate its mysticism (which i view as being part of the spyche)

its open to interperation, i8s it an ominous symbol for the coming of the new world order or a comforting symbol of a divine presence watching and seeing all.

also the large camp logo will make the camp easy to locate, and i believe alot of people will want to visit us so what better than a floating sign post :)

views opinions and constructive criticism are greatly appreciated.

i would like to stress i am by no means an artist and my main aim is to contribut by creating a permanent easily seen and interesting landmark for navigation as well as expressing my view of the camp and burn theme
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Postby Alex_uk » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:56 am

oh and by the way i am using the clear weather balloons and my use internal lighting of these with high power leds set to blink so they are like giant floating orbs of light........may not do this as i dont want to spoil the floating pyramid effect. :))
jesus this is gona be hard work have to construct in such a way that it can be transported from the uk and assembled in situ on the playa....lol also my first burn ....hopew i havent bitten off more than i can chew
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Postby trocar » Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:17 pm

Sounds pretty cool. You have a fair amount of time still to figure out the logistics.

have to construct in such a way that it can be transported from the uk and assembled in situ on the playa


That shouldn't be too much of a problem. Our project broke down to take up a very small space and that was 50' long X 12' diameter. You could just get a shipping tube as long as the framework rods and stuff in the fabric and balloons in the ol' tube.
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Postby Mister Jellyfish Mister » Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:03 pm

Nice to see that you two have hooked up.

Alex, I'm starting to get really excited about your idea, and I know tro is spilling some valueable advice.

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Postby cmainiac666 » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:43 pm

Hey Alex-

I stumbled on these today during my travels- they just might do the trick for lighting:
http://www.ballumination.com/balloons/nf-specs.html
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Postby Alex_uk » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:26 am

nice on they are spot on
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Balloominators?

Postby Ballumination, Inc. » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:18 pm

Just let us know how we can help. I'd be happy to DONATE what you need. I was raised in Winnemucca and am happy to help out with anything on the "home court".
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Postby Ranger Genius » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:04 pm

Saw that username and thought I was going to have to take this to the admins. But...surprise! It's not an advertisement! And I'm pleasantly shocked! Thanks for defying what I expected to see!
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Postby cmainiac666 » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:29 pm

that's great!

Alex- I thought of a pre-made item to use for reeling the baloon in and out- you could use a garden hose reel (<a href="http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1274994&cp=1815424.1260353&parentPage=family">see here</a>).

You could probably reinforce it enough, and stake it down with some u-shaped rebar....just a thought.

You can find this stuff for free usually.
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A "reel" good idea.

Postby Ballumination, Inc. » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:28 pm

Alex,
The hose reel is a wonderful idea. Also, if you need something with an automatic "stop" on it perhaps a hand-crank like there is on the tongue of a boat trailer. It'd hold plenty of line and has a one way feature on it - your balloon pyramid wouldn't get away from you.

If you are doing a BIG pyramid, you'll want to be careful of the power of it's pull, especially in a Washoe Zephyr if one kicks up. A hand winch would be just the ticket.

Attach the hand winch to a pole that could be anchored in a deep hole in the ground. After the pole is inserted and the hole is filled in with dirt - just add some water and let it compact by itself. The alkali dirt will set HARD after the water soaks in and evaporates.

This idea of yours is GREAT.
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Postby Killbuck » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:18 pm

Mr. Douglas-

I am Kernul Killbuck, exhaulted ruler of APOKILIPTIKA. Alex is one of our oversees agents. I am located in a "secret undisclosed location" in Carson City NV, so if there is anything I can do to logistically assist Alex. please let me know. I can be PM'd any time.
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