law enforcement 2013

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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Elderberry » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:05 pm

unjonharley wrote:I suggest to the posters on this thread: If you "think" you have the right to break "any law".. Stop coming to Burning Man... 8 mph in a 5 mph zone is more than 50% over the speed limit.. If you do not want go the limit.. Stay home.. If you want to use illegal drug, stay home.. If you want to do these thing at Burning Man you get arrested GOOD.. And stop whining about it..

OK. That's just a bit harsh. Especially the drug thing. :shock:
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Speed limits in the US are not set by mass hysteria or majority vote.. The speed limits are set by Safety Engineers.. But the masses know better.. That is why about 50 000 have been killed on the US hwy's each year since 1949
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Elderberry » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:16 pm

unjonharley wrote:Speed limits in the US are not set by mass hysteria or majority vote.. The speed limits are set by Safety Engineers.. But the masses know better.. That is why about 50 000 have been killed on the US hwy's each year since 1949

This is not always true. Often speed limits are set lower than required to err on the side of safety because there are so many bad, letigious drivers in this country. Also,they are sometimes set to accomplish some other goal, like saving oil, when speed limits on highways were dropped to 55.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby MikeGyver » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:32 pm

Nipple wrote:I think a couple hundred cars over the course of a couple months at 70mph, carrying mostly occupants or light loads is a hard comparison to 20,000+ cars/RVs/Semis carrying the mass of Burning Man in the front door at 5-30mph.


Im on Nipples side on that. Through out the year on Playa there could be 1000 cars all going 70mph but the likely hood of those thousand going over the same tracks is minuscule so there isn't much wear on the Playa. 60,000 cars all driving over (guessing) 8 lanes causes a lot of wear and tear.

If you paid attention on Exodus there was a spot between greeters and gate and another spot between gate and pavement that DPW/Gate staff/Rangers/ETC... used to get across gate road and there were definite grooves from them going through the same spot over and over.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:50 pm

All the other shit aside.. The speed limit on the approach to and in BRC is posted 5 mph & 10 mph.. It keeps to dust down.. If everyone was driving 20-25 mph aperson would not be able to see others on the road.. There were 16 lanes coming out.. This had to narrow down to one lane.. Even if you got the jump on a few cars in other lanes.. Your exit time would be about the same.. If you feel you can not live with these simple limits.. Stay home..
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby mudpuppy000 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:15 pm

jkisha wrote:
unjonharley wrote:Speed limits in the US are not set by mass hysteria or majority vote.. The speed limits are set by Safety Engineers.. But the masses know better.. That is why about 50 000 have been killed on the US hwy's each year since 1949

This is not always true. Often speed limits are set lower than required to err on the side of safety because there are so many bad, letigious drivers in this country. Also,they are sometimes set to accomplish some other goal, like saving oil, when speed limits on highways were dropped to 55.


Most freeways are designed for 80+ MPH speeds so they don't have to rebuild them if they ever decide to raise the speed limits.

BTW, I saw tons of 10mph signs on gate road, but zero 5mph signs past gate. Intentional??
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Lonesomebri » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:22 pm

I suggest the LEO decide what attitudes are acceptable to them on the playa at the event, and monitor the gate accordingly.
People saying stuff i disagree with makes me want them to stay home. If you don't like the unruly nature of your fellow humans at the burn.......stay home..... Just kidding, I ain't no uptight control freak.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby unjonharley » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:40 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:I suggest unjonharley and the LEO decide what attitudes are acceptable to them on the playa at the event, and monitor the gate accordingly.
People saying stuff i disagree with makes me want them to stay home. If you don't like the unruly nature of your fellow humans at the burn.......stay home..... Just kidding, I ain't no uptight control freak.


It is not up to me or the LEO to decide.. The state laws and BMorg set the speed limits.. I could give a shit what nature/attitude, if your fucking over the law or rules your fucking over the other burners.. And I say .. Have a good arrest..
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:29 pm

I agree with Bbadger that heroin maintenance is something well worth exploring. Any change in drug laws should not only undercut the power of the prison/industrial complex, but also undercut the power of the thug complex. They're fucking up our cities, they're fucking up our national forests, they're fucking up Mexico, they're fucking up Columbia, they're fucking up Afghanistan (and you thought they couldn't get any more fucked up)... They create human misery for profit. It's vile and I think we should ...

Yeah, the prohibition thing... I don't know that we should legalize heroin, but if drug lords couldn't make a profit because we kept our junkies sated, then they'd have a lot less reason to get people hooked.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby BBadger » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:23 pm

This is all preaching to the choir though. The motives and designs behind these policies go beyond practical or even financial reasons, and there are benefits, for certain parties, in having places fucked up by thugs, drug lords, and illegitimate markets.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:10 am

unjonharley wrote:All the other shit aside.. The speed limit on the approach to and in BRC is posted 5 mph & 10 mph.. It keeps to dust down.. If everyone was driving 20-25 mph aperson would not be able to see others on the road..

10 mph there's little dust. At 15 mph it shoots up and blows across the lanes. 20 mph and up and it's nuts (idiots racing to beat others to Gate).

Inside BRC, although 5 mph means less injuries, more importantly it means far less severe injuries.

Everyone going is supposed to know the speed limits, and they're mentioned all over, so if you think your time getting to where you're going is more important than:
  • other drivers being able to see in line,
  • when the wind is blowing towards BRC and speeders are creating a dust storm (like Friday evening weekend rush...),
  • people getting injured,
then lets have LE nail them to the wall.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby 666isMONEY » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:07 am

Last year i wanted to see the source of the dust storms (last year there were tiny, sporadic dust storms), walked to where gate road hits the city and saw huge RVs kicking up dust, estimate their speed at about 15mph.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby lucky420 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:35 am

[quote="Lonesomebri"]I suggest the LEO decide what attitudes are acceptable to them on the playa at the event, and monitor the gate accordingly.
People saying stuff i disagree with makes me want them to stay home. If you don't like the unruly nature of your fellow humans at the burn.......stay home..... Just kidding, I ain't no uptight control freak.[/quote]


:lol: :lol:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby BurnerBunny » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:31 am

while I had some good interactions and fun experiences this year, the police presence added negativity to an otherwise memorable experience.

On the way in Sunday afternoon the person on my left, and then 30 seconds later on my right both got pulled over. It was ridiculous stressing about if I was going 9mph or 11mpg.

My camp was way out at 8:00 & J, and starting Friday night the cops would drive by multiple times an hour leering at everyone as if we were all criminals.

I also didn't care for having to have my license on me at all times if I wanted to receive a drink, and despised the fact that people were required to have food permits.

I'm not the kind of burner who goes back to back, but in a few years when I get that itch again, remembering what a pain the authorities have become I might not go again. I hear smaller regionals don't have the same level of cops, and I've been meaning to check out this thing in the sacramento delta called ephemerisle or something like that.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby bradtem » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:52 am

MikeGyver wrote:
Nipple wrote:I think a couple hundred cars over the course of a couple months at 70mph, carrying mostly occupants or light loads is a hard comparison to 20,000+ cars/RVs/Semis carrying the mass of Burning Man in the front door at 5-30mph.


Im on Nipples side on that. Through out the year on Playa there could be 1000 cars all going 70mph but the likely hood of those thousand going over the same tracks is minuscule so there isn't much wear on the Playa. 60,000 cars all driving over (guessing) 8 lanes causes a lot of wear and tear.

If you paid attention on Exodus there was a spot between greeters and gate and another spot between gate and pavement that DPW/Gate staff/Rangers/ETC... used to get across gate road and there were definite grooves from them going through the same spot over and over.


I presume you have not driven the playa roads. They are the main highways of the playa, and all the cars drive the same place -- they are faster than open playa. They are a groove the width of a lane.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Nipple » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:05 pm

bradtem wrote:
MikeGyver wrote:
Nipple wrote:I think a couple hundred cars over the course of a couple months at 70mph, carrying mostly occupants or light loads is a hard comparison to 20,000+ cars/RVs/Semis carrying the mass of Burning Man in the front door at 5-30mph.


Im on Nipples side on that. Through out the year on Playa there could be 1000 cars all going 70mph but the likely hood of those thousand going over the same tracks is minuscule so there isn't much wear on the Playa. 60,000 cars all driving over (guessing) 8 lanes causes a lot of wear and tear.

If you paid attention on Exodus there was a spot between greeters and gate and another spot between gate and pavement that DPW/Gate staff/Rangers/ETC... used to get across gate road and there were definite grooves from them going through the same spot over and over.


I presume you have not driven the playa roads. They are the main highways of the playa, and all the cars drive the same place -- they are faster than open playa. They are a groove the width of a lane.


I've driven them. First order of business when I met the trash fence was "Ok, now how do I get, go, and stay out there?" I do maintain that those roads serve different purposes, and have different usage profiles.

Heavier loads in vehicles cause more road wear. The stuff out on the East and West Playa highways are largely passenger trucks and other work vehicles. I mean, it's all a thought experiment, but it doesn't stack up to the glut of participants on the gate road in my head.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Canoe » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:08 pm

666isMONEY wrote:... walked to where gate road hits the city and saw huge RVs kicking up dust, estimate their speed at about 15mph.

10 mph is the magic number
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:26 pm

That's the road to Gate, not where "Gate Road hits the city."
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Canoe » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:58 am

drifting, but
BurnerBunny wrote:... despised the fact that people were required to have food permits.

Imagine how quickly food poisoning or an ill preparer could spread havoc through a city like BRC, where many don't maintain adequate hygiene, etc.. Where it's not needed (bars without fruit slices or dairy), its exempted. Their push is to keep us safe & healthy.
(Not to mention suddenly doubling or tripling the number of porta-potties required...)
Highway to Hell. Stairway to Heaven.Traffic prediction?
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:06 am

Some one posted, They don't like having to carry ID..

Carry your ID to protect the bar tenders..

It is against the law to to serve alcohol to minors.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby idio » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:17 am

I swung by White Ocean on either Thursday or Friday night. Saw this one guy on a platform in this crazy white and pink outfit with giant spikes all over it - sort of a pastel gwar ensemble. He managed to stand out in the crowd, that's for sure.

Fast forward about 30 minutes or so and I was leaving... saw the same guy in front of a truck with two cops - one checking his ID the other sort of talking to him. pastel gwar guy had his hands on the hood, so I presume he was in some kind of trouble. Not sure how he wound up from on top of a dance platform to that truck, but I have to guess some kind of undercover activity and him being duped let him there.


Overall, this and one van getting very, very thoroughly searched as I slowly entered BRC on Tuesday morning were the only times I really saw the police.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:37 am

Years ago, I worked a second job as intake at a detox.. For some reason i could smell the different drugs in sweat from the clients.. Even if you think not, You walk talk and move different while using.. It dose not take even a trained eye to spot you.. After a few encounters a cop sees it as second nature spotting drug users..
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby idio » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:46 am

unjonharley wrote:Years ago, I worked a second job as intake at a detox.. For some reason i could smell the different drugs in sweat from the clients.. Even if you think not, You walk talk and move different while using.. It dose not take even a trained eye to spot you.. After a few encounters a cop sees it as second nature spotting drug users..


typo or Freudian slip?
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby PlayaPatrol » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:07 am

unjohn, how many years has it been since youve been to burning man? How many years have you been armchair quarterbacking? What agency were you an officer of, or which agency does your relative work at?
Car's speedometers don't have a mark for 5 MPH. Many don't have a mark for 10. You have to guess your speed. If the cops arent using radar they are guessing too.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby PlayaPatrol » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:12 am

On burn night, at most an hour after the burn 6-8 cop trucks screeched in, narrowly missing running over people. One cop shoved a guy out of the way. No word on the crime that the one arrest victim allegedly committed. For the entire event cop vehicles were driving at 30-60 MPH on playa without lights and siren.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby Nipple » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:12 am

PlayaPatrol wrote:If the cops arent using radar they are guessing too.


Pretty easy to pick a race winner at the finish line.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby PlayaPatrol » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:19 am

What exactly does filling out the feedback form accomplish? Wouldn't far more be accomplished by filing a complaint with internal affairs and the commanding officer/agent/sheriff of the offending agency?

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Burning Man Update: The Jack Rabbit Speaks, Volume 18, Issue #1, September 6, 2013

**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**

LAW ENFORCEMENT FEEDBACK

Did you have or witness an encounter with law enforcement on the playa? Whether positive or negative, we want to know about it. We use this information to work with law enforcement to improve our relations, improve their interactions with our community and to ensure your constitutional and civil rights are being protected while in Black Rock City. And we can't be successful in that effort if we don't have your stories.

So please, take a moment to download, fill out and mail us a Law Enforcement Feedback Form (PDF), here:

http://www.burningman.com/on_the_playa/le_feedback.html

**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**
Anyone taking offence at anything in my posts - tough. It's only an internet forum. Stop being overly sensitive. you are shallow and banal. Eplayans who spend hours a day posting need to make in person friends and mentally masturbate less.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby otakup0pe » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:20 am

PlayaPatrol wrote:What exactly does filling out the feedback form accomplish? Wouldn't far more be accomplished by filing a complaint with internal affairs and the commanding officer/agent/sheriff of the offending agency?

I think the hope is that the BMORG will follow up with proper channels on the most egregious oppression.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby PlayaPatrol » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:22 am

I wonder if they took a 15 minute break from ticketing people while in the temple, or used it as an opportunity to ticket in the temple while having the memorial? 100 cops? It was claimed there were only 64 total on playa per shift. 36 extra showed up while off duty?
Stray Dog wrote:This was a memorial service for a LEO that had died of brain cancer earlier in the year. This was only my first burn, and I had to leave early, but it was a little creepy seeing over a hundred of them inside the temple. But hey, cops die too.
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Re: law enforcement 2013

Postby hazertag » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:24 am

Anyone filled out a feedback form for LAWYERS FOR BURNERS? Filled one out a week ago. Hoping I get contacted before my 30-day window to pay my ticket is up... :?
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