message to the burner who burned the "rogue" car

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message to the burner who burned the "rogue" car

Postby dsrtfaery » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:38 pm

To whoever felt the need... I hope that your BM experience was enhanced and made better when you decided to burn an art car on the playa. I am sorry for whatever annoyance or injustice you felt you had to right. And again, I hope it was a personal highlight for you on the playa. However, I thought you should know that it had propane tanks on it, and if they had exploded in the blaze, the surrounding area and everyone in it for up to 150 feet would have been seriously injured or killed by shrapnel.
Next time, I hope you can feel the ultimate experience out there without potential deadly action against anyone or their possesions. :( I was not there on the playa this year, for many reasons, but one was the vibe that I had gotten that was a lot more negative than it had been in previous years. "Rogue" was annoying to me last year too - the owner is not my friend. BUT, I believe that was one of the saddest pieces of news I heard regarding the year that I missed, and I hope that you got it all out of your system this year, so that if you decide to come back, you will not feel the need to destroy someone elses art. Burn your own next time - its a much more satisfying experience and it wont harm many other burners or their experiences out there. I hope its better for you in the real world now.
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It was a damn nice fire, but....

Postby ckburn » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:45 pm

Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed the multi-colored flame jetting out of the pressurized tanks on that thing... but it was absolute fucking idiocy to burn that thing right next to the esplanade. At least wait til they take it way out in the open playa somewhere.

And I hope the dumbass who burned it gets his own fucked-up karma right back at him sometime... And I am sure he will. You burn other people's shit and they might just burn yours.

Burn your own art, people.
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Postby III » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:57 pm

>everyone in it for up to 150 feet would have been seriously injured or killed by shrapnel.

huh. so you're an expert on exploding propane cannisters?

(not that i am either, but of the half gross or so i've seen go into fires, very few have actually exploded , and even those didn't throw shrapnel).

burning other peoples art, on the other hand, is pretty damn low.

maybe one of the reasons people are surprised that not more people are injured is because these things aren't really as dangerous as you think they are?
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Postby Ivy » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:03 pm

>very few have actually exploded

It only takes one.

Maybe in general, things aren't really as dangerous as we advertise them to be, but I don't want to be that "one," and i don't want to be the person responsible for that "one."

And with that, I remind you all: "safety third."
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Postby III » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:20 pm

>It only takes one.

but even then they don't throw shrapnel. there is invariably a weak seam that blows apart, peeling the thing inside out into one beautiful jagged piece of steel that travels about 5 feet if at all. if it's in a wood fire, it will throw embers a good 20 feet or so. the report, on the other hand, will leave you dizzy.

i woudln't call it safe. i'm just pointing out that the predictions are along the lines of "marijuana will turn you into a sex crazed homocidal maniac".
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Postby clandyone » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:21 pm

While we're at it... to the person who hucked the large explosive into the burn platform in front of Sanctuary on Sunday night... FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.
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Postby dirtytuba » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:26 pm

III wrote: "marijuana will turn you into a sex crazed homocidal maniac".


but it does... if you smoke enough of it.
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R.I.P., Rogue : (

Postby Elysium Core » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:54 pm

:x Well I *AM* a friend of the owner of Rogue! Years & years & thousands of $$$$ and unfathomable heart & soul went into making Rogue what she was. Many of us are shocked & heartbroken over this.
I have NO DOUBTS that kharma will, indeed, wreak a fucking war on the person (s) responsible for torching her......sure hope it was worth it to you to do what you did, though I doubt it was, in hindsight at least. And aren't you the least bit worried about being caught?? You should be!!! :evil:

I want to point something out about the potential dangers of this tragedy: It may not have thrown shrapnel if she blew, but it would, most likely, have caught the Death Guild camp on fire and THAT could have seriously injured/killed campers there. Another thing--->many nights, that car was the sleeping quarters of 2 of my best friends. YOU COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE!!! Did any of this cross your mind?

I really hope you are caught by the law and not someone like me. And I certainly hope you are given the opportunity to feel the pain 10 times over that this has caused many of us. :evil:

Kharmic HELL on you!
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Postby PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:15 pm

III wrote:...of the half gross or so i've seen go into fires, very few have actually exploded, and even those didn't throw shrapnel).


As a fireman I've been around propane tanks (some BIG) that were adjacent to home fires. Usually they vent as the heat over-pressurizes them. Sometimes they split open (not always on a welded seam) in a most spectacular and satisfying manner, but generally without significant shrapnel.

I've also been at the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners' Association Machine Gun and .50-Caliber Fun Shoot where old, condemned tanks were used as reactive targets. When shot, they usually just ventilate and sometimes spin about spraying flammable liquid like a psycho lawn sprinkler. Tracers or nearby temporary grass fires sometimes light the spray. And once in awhile a shot tank will fly 150' in the air. Cool.


I'm curious: how is it known that this art car burned due to arson? And not, for example, bad wiring?
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Postby playasnake » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:19 pm

werent the guns MAP gas also... not propane
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Postby Elysium Core » Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:23 am

:!: Because the idiot who burned Rogue took the time to go into the trunk and open the propane tanks....THAT is how. Not much else can be said other than that, due to the fact that this incident is under investigation. :roll:
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Postby tbone » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:58 am

I'm with III on this one.

Yes, it's absolutely wrong to burn somebody else's art. It's wrong to burn it so close to people.

But comments like "everybody within 150' would be burned or covered with shrapnel" are silly.

I've shot at propane tanks. In bonfires made of giant piles of magneseum shavings (a 55 gallon drum of them) and 5 gallons of gas.

It may not be the smartest thing I've ever done, but there were folks within 150' (they were aware of what was happening and had lots of time to move as far back as they wanted, and were there because they wanted to see it) and nothing came even close to moving 150'.

Propane goes boom, but not as much as you are stating.

Although it freaked out lots of people when I was "welding propane tanks" at the burn this year. I was only welding a bracket to an art car to hold the 3 50 gallon tanks to the car.
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Postby tbone » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:02 am

Oh, forgot to ask in my post above.
Any pictures of the car that was burned? I'm not sure which one it was.
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Postby PJ » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:06 am

tbone wrote:I've shot at propane tanks. In bonfires made of giant piles of magneseum shavings (a 55 gallon drum of them) and 5 gallons of gas...


Someday, if I get to know you, I might forgive you for doing that without inviting me.
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Postby Halo Joe » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:49 pm

PJ wrote:
tbone wrote:I've shot at propane tanks. In bonfires made of giant piles of magneseum shavings (a 55 gallon drum of them) and 5 gallons of gas...


Someday, if I get to know you, I might forgive you for doing that without inviting me.


I won't ... phukker.
You were burning long before you stepped into this fire. -- EB
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Postby tbone » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:04 pm

PJ wrote:
tbone wrote:I've shot at propane tanks. In bonfires made of giant piles of magneseum shavings (a 55 gallon drum of them) and 5 gallons of gas...


Someday, if I get to know you, I might forgive you for doing that without inviting me.


Here's what it looks like.
Image
The shadow on the right side is a concrete slab about 20'-25' high.
Everything white is mg, including the stuff in the air.

Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack this thread...
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Postby Lydia Love » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:07 pm

wow. really really wow
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Postby Isotopia » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:08 pm

Whoa!

Seeing that pic makes me all tingley down 'there'.
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Postby Halo Joe » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:35 pm

Isotopia wrote:Whoa!

Seeing that pic makes me all tingley down 'there'.


Where? Australia? No, wait that's something else ...
You were burning long before you stepped into this fire. -- EB
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Postby Lydia Love » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:44 pm

I get tingles in my Australia all the time.
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Postby PJ » Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:03 pm

Lydia Love wrote:I get tingles in my Australia all the time.


I'll bet my Tasmania could elicit some New South Wales out of your Victoria.
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Rogue fire

Postby gilligan » Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:42 pm

I was one of the fire fighters fighting that car fire. It was impressive, and had a lot of potential to be worse. Propane tanks can explode, especially when the vapor space (gas) of the tank is impinged (weakening the metal, if fire is in the liquid space it cools it self by "boiling" off)and the vent valves can not ventilate the over pressure. This is called a BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion) and the effects can be devestating (sharpnel, and also a big ass fireball). With the tanks all torching off, there was impingement going on. That fire put BRC citizens and the rescue people in harms way.

This is why you should never throw propane tanks into the fires kids.

Plus it is just stupid and very low -on-the-food-chain like to damage peoples art or other stuff (although Rogue is rather annoying but cool because when people who don't know what it is cringe when they hear it in fear of getting "shot").

I hope they can resurrect it - it is one of those familiar voices in out city.

Also, kudos to BLM for keeping people back while this car was burning.
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burning art

Postby Guest » Tue Sep 09, 2003 2:16 pm

I agree there is no justification for burning someone else's art.

Another person wrote in another topic..."I treasure BRC not because everyone there thinks like I do but because it's a rare place where I can interact with open-minded, good-hearted people who might be adversaries elsewhere, yet celebrate our common love for the burn. "

That's what it should be about, open minds and acceptance of differences, not wrecking someone's time and hard work.

The fact that I miss the sound of rogue's machine gun noise spreading across the playa has nothing to do with the fact that destroying someone else's art is just wrong.
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Postby tbone » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:46 pm

I just read on another thread that they later decided it was a LPG hose failure (due to a hose not rated for LPG) and not a case of arson.

Hmmmm. True? Rumor? Thoughts?
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Postby TestesInSac » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:12 pm

tbone wrote:I just read on another thread that they later decided it was a LPG hose failure (due to a hose not rated for LPG) and not a case of arson.

Hmmmm. True? Rumor? Thoughts?


Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by [error]?
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Postby Kinetic » Sun Sep 14, 2003 7:25 pm

Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by [error]?

Cute.

Assuming that it was sabotaged, it's still a shame that some fuckwit did this. If the story is true, this is another thing for 04 that the masses need educated on. Don't fuck with the art, don't steal the art, etc. We shouldn't have to do it but since it's happening let's find a way to get the message out and try to curb it. We also need to inspire the shy and quiet ones who see it happen and do nothing that it's ok to speak up. We cover the portapottie rules and vid cam rules at the gate and in the JRS, this could get the same coverage. With art being one of the pillars of the city and experience, this threat ranks right up there with moop and portapotty problems, imho.

And if it wasn't sabotage, we've just done a great job of inspiring a fuckwit to try this next year, so I refer back to what I just wrote.

The karma gods and goddesses are not ones to be fucked with....they meter out their allotments of good karma carefully, but bad karma is given out in abundance. Someone will pay for this, we might not see it but it will happen.
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Postby Badger » Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:36 pm

The karma gods and goddesses are not ones to be fucked with....they meter out their allotments of good karma carefully, but bad karma is given out in abundance.


I read in one of the sacred texts tha it's a 17.452:1 ratio.
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Postby KellY » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:22 pm

:evil: The lovely Blackswan and I got married standing on the back of Rogue the Friday before the burn. We met the year before, and had our big moment of connection riding Rogue back into the city from the Duck Bar - we were riding on the top, wind in our faces, beautiful Black Rock City streaming past, machine guns blazing...it was amazing and wonderful. The fact that Rogue is gone is a huge bummer for us.

I'm only an aquaintance of the owner, but I would like to make a couple of comments on just how horrible this act was. First, Rogue was more than just playa art. Kevin drove it all over the country this year, and planned to do more of the same. Imagine if it was your actual car that got molotoved outside your house. Also, last I heard, there was suspicion that this was a premeditaded act of malice by someone with a grudge.

Lastly, stop fucking comforting yourself with lies about karma. Maybe it follows you into the next life and balances everything out there, but in this world people get away with horrible crimes all the time. Stalin lived to a ripe old age, "Papa Doc" Duvalier is living in comfortable exile, and Kissinger is coming out with a new book. If you really want justice in the world, people need to make it for themselves.
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Postby Badger » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:43 pm

If you really want justice in the world, people need to make it for themselves.


So what caliber do you suggest?
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Postby TestesInSac » Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:51 pm

Badger wrote:
If you really want justice in the world, people need to make it for themselves.


So what caliber do you suggest?


With the money I spent preparing for BM2k3, I could almost afford a .50BMG. Talk about big iron!
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