Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possible?

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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby gekko59 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:23 pm

Yup. Angry people who cannot tell the difference between requests for respect and "rules" are fun to deal with. Love the dude calling the OP names and getting pissy about it.

I think the issue isn't the relative few who express their own Temple experiences sincerely in loud fashion, but the larger groups who act like assholes, who blast the stupid thudda-thudda crap they can get anywhere else on the playa JUST to be assholes about it, or who get all vicious and confrontational -- whether it's in telling people to be quiet/sit down, or just trying to spoil stuff for others because they can.

There will always be infants.

But again, the OP's idea might have the impact of reducing the number of people who are quite simply ignorantly ruining things.

The deliberate jerkaholics will always be that way. The ones who celebrate the passing on of souls rather than mourning tend to be fewer in number and, really, I have no beef with them.

I just hate bullying shitheads. :D
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Xavier » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:24 pm

Everyone is going to demonstrate what they feel the need to demonstrate at the temple burn. The temple is ONLY what it is, the burning of the structure only gains meaning because WE GIVE IT meaning.

For those on the "keep it quiet" side of the debate - just keep doing what you're doing and keep creating that silent space. As it's been pointed out, there's a significant silence contingent anyway and that in and of itself puts pressure on the "sheep" and the "virgins" to do the same. And let it be known that you would prefer that it be silent if that's what you think should be going on. You're already succeeding in a sense, because altogether you're already creating the quietest moments on the entire playa.

But the beauty of that that silence, what makes it matter, it that's it's entirely voluntary. It's a true anarchy, in that's it's demonstrative. BUT the minute that you attempt to repeatedly force your point of view on those who are "out of line" whether it be vocally or by social ostracism, is the minute that you forget the very purpose of Burning Man and the reason that people are all there in the first place. It's EXPRESSION. It's one thing if the person is just ignorant. But that is not always the case and if someone is going to Merry Prankster the moment then that's completely up to them.

Do yourself a favor and just enjoy the moment for what it is. A couple of cat calls or some lasers don't ruin the experience. You just end up ruining the experience for yourself because you're letting your Ego take control, and trying to impose Authority in a place where Authority has no reign. And again, don't be surprised when people start letting you know the Emperor has no clothes in this moment.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Token » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:33 pm

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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby ulli » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:35 pm

@Xavier: Well said.

Reminds me of that guy singing the 'female circumcision blues' during the temple burn wait in '03. Laughed my ass off.

But you don't laugh in other people's churches without consequences ;-)
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Xavier » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:41 pm

I should amend the philosophical debate on this to some extent - there is a line of course past people just making noise/blocking vision making light... If someone is being a true danger (out of control/incoherent/threatening/physically aggressive/intentionally damaging art) then they have moved out of the spirit of dissent/civic disobedience and into civic threat. I've only seen this happen twice on the playa, and ironically it was veteran burners with a very orthodox view of the 10 principles who caused the damage (the Eclipse burn and and a 10 principles fanatic who physically assaulted a virgin riding a skate scooter. )
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby RedHeaven » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:15 pm

woops sorry edit
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby RedHeaven » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:18 pm

Personally I 1000% agree with the OP (first post) and I thought all of your ideas were great and I would LOVE to see all of that happen and support everything you said.

But yeah I wouldnt let it RUIN my temple experience. I dont think the OP did, either. I just gotta remember next time to watch it from the back side, its generally a little quieter back there.

I cant believe this young (probably newbie) was trying to get the crowd to do the wave. People were all half assing it and shes all "OK one more try cuz Im tired of trying!" and someone yelled "I dont think anyone wants to do the wave so give it up!" I was happy they said that and she finally stopped trying. She seemed like she just didnt know....

No matter what, its still generally really really quiet and it always amazes me how many people can be relatively silent for that. LOVE!
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby meowkie » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:54 pm

i agree 1000% with xavier. forced solemnity doesn't mean anything.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby wedeliver » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:24 pm

Hopefully this will be my last post on this subject. If anyone is reading this please understand that everyone has a differnet way of dealing with sad things. My oldest daughter, when she is really sad it looks like she is smiling. The wierdest thing, myself I cannot handle death and will do all I can not to think about it. I stopped going to the Temple burn because it just didn't feel right for me since it seems almost unburner. So many people got regular street clothes on and as allready said in post before, there is a bunch of conflicting emotions and feelings going on. You, me, no one can make someone care, and for a lot of burners we refuse to be told how to act or how to feel. If I went to a temple burn I would be hated since I would proably be yelling. Save the Temple, don''t burn the temple, save the temple, the temple did nothing wrong, save the temple, Save the Temple, don''t burn the temple, save the temple, the temple did nothing wrong, save the temple.

I hope you all had a great burn, me on the other hand did not go, even though I had a ticket in hand at one point. So stop your whining, you got to go and see and experience...if you didn't like it don't go back. If you wanted to beat on people, don't go back.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby The CO » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:38 pm

wedeliver wrote:Save the Temple, don''t burn the temple, save the temple, the temple did nothing wrong, save the temple, Save the Temple, don''t burn the temple, save the temple, the temple did nothing wrong, save the temple.


I'd be right there with you!
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby WitnessCrew » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:16 pm

I find it bizarre that it's ok to scream "MOM!" or wail or sob or make any other approved noise, but not to talk about unapproved subjects or make any unapproved noise. Who decided that anyway?

I was the one who screamed "Mom" btw, I do it every year. The rest of the time I'm silent, but that's because I have nothing else to say, not because someone explained to me that I was "supposed" to be quiet. Trying to shame people (or even to "educate" people) into doing what you want them to is never really effective anyway.

I still wear my formal attire to the Man Burn, but I don't yell at others for not doing so, nor do I try to "educate" virgins about the proper clothing for the occasion. Nor does it ruin my Man Burn to see tens of thousands of people dressed in such a slovenly and disrespectful way. :wink: And that particular tradition pre-dates the temple by quite a bit.

Just food for thought.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby penrose » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:25 pm

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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby hookahdude » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:33 pm

bluesbob wrote:I think much of the din and disrespect came from the 10:00 to 2:00 side of the Temple. We ran screaming into the desert because we were melting.


Dammit - 2nd time tonight I almost choked on my coffee.. You people really need to post warnings...
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby yealf » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:42 am

The biggest spiritual buzz kill for me at the temple burn was all the self righteous control freaks yelling
"Sit the fuck down!" just before the burn. It was pathetic.
I have a knee injury and considerately stood WAY behind all the seated folks.
A bunch of assholes sat down behind me rather than in front of me where there was a ton of room for them and started
berating me. I went up to them and told them there was plenty of room for them to sit in front of me but it became clear that they really were just interested in yelling "sit the fuck down" as loud as possible. As were many other jerks out there.
No doubt if they had spotted two mourners quietly consoling each other they would have jumped on the opportunity to yell "Shut the fuck up!"
So here's a big fuck you to all you control freak wankers hiding behind the phony facade of pretending to defend some idea of piety. It's all such hypocritical garbage. you are busted.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby bluesbob » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:57 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
bluesbob wrote:
Bob wrote:Sentiments like the above are why I leave early Sunday. Fuck the Temple, I'm fucking embarrassed to be associated with or indirectly funding this tasteless hippie-religious abomination. Plus, it was ugly as fuck this year. Isn't there something in the Ten Principles mandating separation of Church and City?


I'm embarrassed you consider yourself a Burner.

Bob goes to the burn; I don't think I've ever heard him say that he considers himself a burner.


Yeah...no big deal. We all have our own opinions about things.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby gekko59 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:45 pm

I'd agree that people making a big public issue out of trying to force reverence or silence clang the big ol' irony gong and are, in their ways, worse than the assholes who figure disregarding an emotional or spiritual aura is a fun thing to do. Generally speaking, anger is too easy to come by. Ppl would be happier if they'd just mellow out.

Caveat: I chose to skip the Temple burn and have no real horse in this specific race. That said, generally speaking when it comes to life on or off playa, I'd like to see a stronger spirit of understanding and connection among participants at something like a Temple burn or something regarded by the many as a solemn event. Not force it, no. Not require it, no. Just have people who'd rather be jovial go be jovial elsewhere so those who need to process sorrow can do so. Feel the humanity flowing between us and do the appropriate thing.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby MooseJoose » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:10 pm

"we aim to ensure that The Temples effectively and reliably deliver an experience of reverence, reflection, peace and togetherness to the largest possible cross-section of our community. We hold that the Temple and the experience of the people within it deserve enormous respect . . ." -- The Temple of Transition Crew

Everyone should come to understand and respect the way their fellow burners participate in this event. The Temple burn, as well as Burning Man as a whole, is the last place for anyone to be stubborn and say "this is how we all should behave". There aren't set rules or expectations for the event, or any one way we're supposed to act -- the only expectation is that, as a human, you look out for, assist, accommodate, and/or respect your fellow people at the burn. Burning Man is made possible by the idea of contributing to your community purely for the sake of the people within it. Not for money, but for the expectation that whoever you're accommodating is going to turn around and contribute to the community in some way themselves. Burning Man is the #1 place for "what goes around, comes around". If you treat others well, assist them, or keep yourself flexible to their needs, the same will be done for you.

Not everybody is going to be silent at the Temple burn, because it's unfair to say that everybody should. If somebody wrote a prayer on the wall of the Temple directed at his/her deceased loved one, and is filled with so much ecstasy and joy from seeing their pain and suffer fly up into the air in flames that they cheer and roar, the person next to them who decides to be silent should understand and respect that. If the noise bothers them, move further away where it's quieter. Or, on the other side, if you are the louder one, move closer to the people who also want to be loud -- away from the silent mourners. Respect has to be mutual. Both parties need to accommodate each other, because the event is FOR them both -- the community as a whole.

As for the people who attend the Temple burn for the sake of seeing it burn, you have to understand that many people use the temple as a means of acceptance or peace after a loved one has passed. Some people put the very ashes of those loved ones inside the temple to be burned along side it. It's an huge deal for many mourners, so you have to weigh which is more important: a fellow human gaining peace and happiness, or you screaming your head off at the sight of fire. If you've placed yourself among a group of people who wish to meditate in silence on the burning of the temple, respect that and either be silent as well, or move towards a group of people who are celebrating the life of a passed loved one with cheering. Or, if you're somebody who wants to be silent during the burn, and you've placed yourself near a group of cheering people and art cars, you've made a mistake. Move to a quieter location. I decided I wanted to be silent during the burn, so I set up about 300' from the temple. It was beautiful, amazingly profound experience -- and I couldn't hear a thing except for the crackling of the temple in flames.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby gekko59 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:40 pm

MooseJoose: +1
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby unjonharley » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:52 pm

gekko59 wrote:MooseJoose: +1


All you long winded (posting) lovefest people are giving me an invite to raise as much hell as I can at the temple burn.
I'm a real heartless prick.. When it comes to whiner here..

I said it before.. If you want to control "your" temple burn.. Build your own and burn it your.. But get the fuck out of others faces..
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby polyresin » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:23 pm

unjonharley wrote:
gekko59 wrote:MooseJoose: +1


All you long winded (posting) lovefest people are giving me an invite to raise as much hell as I can at the temple burn.
I'm a real heartless prick.. When it comes to whiner here..

I said it before.. If you want to control "your" temple burn.. Build your own and burn it your.. But get the fuck out of others faces..
Next year I'll write on the temple for you, the jaded stranger who might never gain the empathetic capacity to understand. Prepare to be commemorated.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby gekko59 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:37 pm

[quote="unjonharley"][quote="gekko59"]MooseJoose: +1[/quote]

All you long winded (posting) lovefest people are giving me an invite to raise as much hell as I can at the temple burn.
I'm a real heartless prick.. When it comes to whiner here..

I said it before.. If you want to control "your" temple burn.. Build your own and burn it your.. But get the fuck out of others faces..[/quote]

:D Awwww, somebody needs a big ol' hug. {{{ unjonharley }}} smoochies!
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby The CO » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:41 pm

MooseJoose & Unjonharley:

YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Bob » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:52 pm

The Temple was better in 2000.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby yealf » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:02 pm

Ulli, I was also standing, maybe 25 feet behind you. I saw what was going on with you. Indeed you did arrive and stood behind all the sitters. That's what we did too. You were completely reasonable and all the people were really bloody obnoxious. Some assholes did exactly the same to me.

Here THE point, THE solution.

If you want to sit down and have a nice unobstructed view of the temple, just fucking show up a little earlier if it means that much to you! If you get there late and end up behind everyone what the fuck do you expect! You can't scream at everyone and expect to get your way. Try that childish scenario at a concert and see where it gets you.


ulli wrote:What's up with all the hate and aggression at the temple burn? You can make the temple mean what you want, but some common decency and respect can't really hurt, can it? And I mean, anywhere, anytime, really.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby The Bee » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:56 am

Kenny Z wrote:As for silence, man, hearing that mammoth structure crackle and whoosh in silence was fucking awesome to even an atheist like myself!

Absolutely! Don't need no rules or dictates to appreciate the sound in silence of that fire. And this year it was particularly awesome with whooshes and cracks and booms. What a great burn!
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby BettySaidWot » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:52 am

We were sitting around there. For the most part, the vast majority of people were quiet but the jackasses on that scissor lift kept on screaming "Yeah bitch!" every five minutes. If you're gonna heckle, at least be creative and witty or something.

When the burn was over, they were trying to get people to clear out the bottom in order to get down. I told them we weren't gonna move because they were cunts, and then my bf shined his FireSword (erm... world's brightest flashlight) in their eyes for a few minutes.

Funny.

Anyway, I love visiting Temple. Looking forward in 2012 to actually being at the Temple burn on Sunday night. In 5 years I still haven't made it. I welcome those who bring their silence, and those who bring their shouts.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:07 pm

BRING YER BULLHORNS!

one of the best things i heard on the playa was when this guy in 2007 screamed "WILL YOU PEOPLE SHUT THE FUCK UP IM TRYING TO HAVE A RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE HERE!!"

it was a joke.....it was perfect, and it highlighted the burnier than thou attitude that comes with the Temple sometimes from some quarters.

and yes, this same stupid fucking argument rears its head every year....


i'm with bob, on most points.


except i love the temple, it's a helluva burn, and i'm a pyromaniac. i get off on seeing something that big burn to the ground.

it can be meaningful, or spiritual, if thats what you want.

however, the moment you start telling me how to do it is the moment i tell you to go fuck yourself, with my bull-horn.

BTW, i have never raised my voice at the temple, but that was MY CHOICE not to do so.

you may request that this is the appropriate behavior, but do not for an instant, expect us to do so.

keep pushing this as a mandatory thing and trust me, i will bring my bullhorn and i will use it if i feel like it, because you told me i can't, or shouldn't, in order to appease somebody's sense of decorum.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby lemur » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:33 pm

I LAUGHED OUT LOUD REALLY HARD

in 2012(edit: whatever fuckin year that was) when a buncha people started chanting

"NO LASERS, NO LASERS, NO LASERS"

i was kindy tipsy, i might have said "FUCK OFF" or something..

whatever it was..

those moments are some of my favorite... people trying to control how people act at the temple burn! LOL
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Risky » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:04 pm

We were sitting around there. For the most part, the vast majority of people were quiet but the jackasses on that scissor lift kept on screaming "Yeah bitch!" every five minutes. If you're gonna heckle, at least be creative and witty or something.


"Yeah Bitch!" is from the Kiwi's, many of who built the Temple 2011.
That's our team cheer. So we have a tendency to say it loud and proud.
"Yeah Bitch!"

And Jub Jub's made a sticker this year, a monkey flag flying from the top of our arch logo with a
FYTC!

It was a crazy year.
I am tired and happy, still.
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Re: Temple Burn -- one hour of silence and reverence possibl

Postby Drawingablank » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:17 am

A Jester wrote:
vargaso wrote:
changoloco wrote:My biggest problem with people at the Temple Burn this year was the DPW crew


I respect what the DPW do every year to set up the city, but almost everyone of them I've come across are total self-righteous assholes. Truly.



I'd hazard a guess that the majority of non-art car noise that happens at temple is from DPW or like minded individuals, not burgins.

I've seen what you're talking about Vargaso, but I've also found that once I actually talk to them, they turn into sweeties. Heck, I had a guy throw a half empty beer at my head, then about an hour later he lent me his portable hard drive so I could copy all his movies and music over to my computer.

It's that their performance art (and all our performance art can be a bit possessing from time to time) is about being gruff and tuff and fuck your burn.

Even though I'm not particularly interested in spending too much time in the DPWasshole, I definitely find their lack of hippie BS to be life savingly refreshing from time to time.


The DPW folks we were next to at the temple burn seemed really nice to me. Throughout the boards you see a lot of gripes about DPW, and I'm sure most of them are legit. But overall it seems more of a stereotype based on the actions of a few - if they were all as obnoxious as folks claim they wouldn't even be able to put up with each other.
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