Exodus 2011

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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:53 am

$tormy wrote: Obviously maintenance and safe driving are not burner strongpoints

Indeed. Nor is not standing where you might be hit after car trouble or an accident.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby ibdave » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:28 am

I leave pre burn sometimes as I did this year. But here's what I would do if I was in charge of the pulse...(can't be on playa that long)

Make the pulse lanes(like they don't have the room) groupings maybe 3-4 lanes and then move the next pulse lines 50-100 ft apart and so on and so on.. Now when it's time to pulse the whole group get to go.. No line jumpers and if a stall happens it would be easier to move around that broke down rig without pissing people off. also time to offer free tickets with less working commitments for exodus workers.. fucked jobs should get rewards faster.... yes?

Pulse needs lots of workers... 8) 8) 8)

edit to add extra 0
Last edited by ibdave on Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby AntiM » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:34 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Good to spot you at Love's AntiM!

Good to see you too, I'd have chatted more, but we were in the middle of the road!

There were lots of broken down burners on EB I-80 on Tuesday. One accident closed the road, it was an RV, but unknown if they were burners or not.

Saw the Utah Jellyfish trailer at the side of the road, alone and lonely. That POS breaks down annually it seems. Perhaps part of funding a mutant vehicle should include funding reliable transportation (says teh woman who thought her own vehicle was road ready when ultimately, it was not).
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:30 pm

After listening to BMIR all day saying "do not try to leave the city as there will be 7 to 8 hours to pavement", I left at 7:30 pm monday and hit the blacktop about 11:30.

Slept about 5 hours at the Loves.

I finally got home at 10pm last night.

The biggest pain was the people in front me falling asleep during pulse and not closing the gap, thus letting the dredded lane changers in.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby bradtem » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:14 pm

Another exodus beef: Motorcycles lane-splitting.

Now wait, you say, what's the problem with that? They do it on the highway, let's them use the extra space to move more vehicles through.

But on the playa there is no shortage of space for lanes. We could build all the lanes you want up to the merge point. The chokepoints come at the merge and the turn onto the blacktop, and through Gerlach and the highway south. And there the motorcycles, unless riding two abreast, take up almost as much room as a car.

So in fact there is no difference between passing everybody by lane-splitting and just taking your motorcycle or car onto the playa next to the lanes, driving up ahead of everybody and butting in at the front of the line. No difference at all, except the lane splitting is a bit more dangerous because during pulse tons of people are walking around between the lanes. So it's really just line-jumping, which we would all like to do, but can't. For every bike that passes you lane splitting, your departure is delayed a similar amount to a car coming in up front -- perhaps slightly less due to the greater agility when merging and shorter length. (The shorter length is quite minor, since most of the space on the road taken up by a vehicle is not its length but the headway around it.)

In fact, the ideal thing to do with a motorcycle when it gets to the head of the line (taking its turn like everybody else) is to have it wait a bit longer for another motorcycle to arrive, and let the two leave at once so they share the lane going out. There are not enough bikes to really do a lot of work to make this happen though. (One approach would be to have the 1st bike to arrive take a place in line, and then allow the 2nd bike to ride the playa to join it.)

That's because while on regular roads, motorcycles are fuel efficient and road efficient, at Burning Man it's extremely rare to see a car that has only one person, and most have more than 2. So the cars are more fuel efficient than the bikes. If you came on a bike, most of the time it means your campmates brought the water and other stuff you needed. So take your turn like the rest of us. Though I am not quite sure how to do that, because there is no way to stop the bikes from lane-splitting and jumping the line short of having cops ticket them. Which would bewilder them because in the default world, what they are doing makes sense. On top of that, it's harder to sit in the sun in leathers on a bike. But it's hard for everybody out there, and that doesn't excuse cutting in the line. It's a decision you make as to what vehicle to use.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:12 pm

We pushed out of camp at 6:39am on Monday morning, hit line stoppage at 7am and were wheels on pavement at 11:15am.

Last year I did the same thing almost to the exact minute and was on pavement in 1.5 hours.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby penrose » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:06 pm

I'm a big fan of leaving Tuesday. No stopping; and Monday night has a great vibe.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby tspinning » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:15 am

We got up and started packing at 3:30am on Monday, left the site at 5am, and hit pavement at about 8:30am. Hit Reno at noon for a feast at Black Bear Diner which was amazing!
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby creativecstasy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:50 pm

We left around 7p on Sunday, no wait to the pavement. The only delay was our poor sedan bouncing on the awful bumpy roads out!
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby The CO » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:29 pm

I do my part by not leaving until Tuesday.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:39 pm

The CO wrote:I do my part by not leaving until Tuesday.

Don't *say* that. The last thing I want is more people leaving Tuesday and fucking up my Exodus.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby ygmir » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:43 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
The CO wrote:I do my part by not leaving until Tuesday.

Don't *say* that. The last thing I want is more people leaving Tuesday and fucking up my Exodus.


damn it you guys.........SHUSH!!!

I think someone should dress like a teacher, and go along the streets saying: "you may be excused", to those waiting.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby joya » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:59 am

Left at 4:30 am-ish. Planned to leave earlier, but our battery died. THANK YOU to the couple in the pick-up that helped us with a jump. I had to flag down and ask several people before finding help -- and hey, I completely understand -- at that point you just want to leave and not dick around helping someone else. So again -- THANK YOU. I wish I got your names, but I was barely functioning at that early hour.

Hit the pavement at 8:30 am. So was in line for four hours. Slept the whole time. (Thanks to the husband for driving this shift!)

Then we ran out of gas in the middle of the salt flats -- totally my fault! bah.

Got to our destination (Park City, UT) at 8 pm where we remained for two nights (wonderful place to chillax and recoup) before pushing on back home.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby StaceyS » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Left camp (7:45 & I) at 9:30am on Monday. Hit the pavement pretty much 6 hours later. Worst time in 4 burns, but it sounds like we did pretty good compared to others! :shock:

Gotta admit some guilt to changing lanes, BUT it was caused by an extenuating circumstance: People in front of me (in my lane), would just leave their vehicles. This happened in my lane no less than 4 times. Twice I managed to squeeze by them carefully, but the RVs behind me couldn't. I always returned to my lane after dodging the empty cars.

Seriously, I saw at least 15 vehicles hold up traffic for the specific reason that the occupants were asleep/partying/gone. I did see some mechanical issues (2 or 3, and people were helping out). The last abandoned car I saw happened 2 cars ahead of me and we were just about to enter the last pulse area. The whole line had been emptied and we weren't moving. People were getting out of their cars and going over to this while Ford Transit Connect to see what was going on. No one inside. Gone. Once I found out there was no one inside and it was locked up, I got back in my car and managed to squeeze between it and the flag fence. My lane was empty all the way out to the road.

Maybe they could get a few Exodus crew people to drive up the line when a pulse happens and get people back in their cars and paying attention. Maybe just 2 people on ATVs, one on either side of the line with air horns all the way to the city. They could at least identify where breakdowns or abandonments happen and help direct people around the blockages...
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby mars » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:54 pm

$tormy wrote:We hit pavement at 3:30pm Monday and I counted 13 burner related automotive issues on 447 and 80. All were tire or axel related except for 1 roll over and 1 jack knifed trailer on 80. This tied my 2006 count. Obviously maintenance and safe driving are not burner strongpoints :(


One of those was mine...maintenance and safe driving are definitely a focus for me, but sometimes you just get a tire blowout. We had two spares with us, so with a little elbow grease, we got a spare on and went on our merry way.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby Canoe » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:29 am

bradtem wrote:Another exodus beef: Motorcycles lane-splitting... lane splitting is a bit more dangerous because during pulse tons of people are walking around between the lanes. ...


They have to be aware of people walking around in line, but My Vote is to let them SLOWLY and SAFELY pass through. This minimizes their time in a long hot line without the protection from the environment that a conventional vehicle offers. Yes, the bike was their choice, but this lessens the likelihood that they:
1. become a burden on First Responders,
2. hit someone/something when over-tired/-heated (see #1),
3. Exodus is delayed while First Responders look after them.

Bottom line: passing them through (safely) minimizes the chance they'll delay everyone else.
(it's also keeping fellow Burners healthy... if such things matter to you...)

The number of bikes there, if passed through, are not going to have any practical effect on your Exodus time.

Same at Gate for entry.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby ibdave » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:28 am

why can't all Motorcycles have an express lane. just how many cycles do you really think are on the Playa?? 20? 30? either way can't be many and should be expressed right to the front...I rather have them out of my way as I surf back home in the RV pulling a trailer.... I ride also, but come on.... 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby Packoderm » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:40 am

ibdave wrote:why can't all Motorcycles have an express lane. just how many cycles do you really think are on the Playa?? 20? 30? either way can't be many and should be expressed right to the front...I rather have them out of my way as I surf back home in the RV pulling a trailer.... I ride also, but come on.... 8) 8) 8)


I like the idea of a separate bike lane too.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby CapSmashy » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:08 am

Tuesday was horrible. We rolled out of camp and waited 23 hours before we made it to pavement. You people leaving on Monday had it easy.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby bradtem » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:18 am

ibdave wrote:why can't all Motorcycles have an express lane. just how many cycles do you really think are on the Playa?? 20? 30? either way can't be many and should be expressed right to the front...I rather have them out of my way as I surf back home in the RV pulling a trailer.... I ride also, but come on.... 8) 8) 8)


There are not a lot of motorcycles, I agree. You can't really come to burning man on a motorcycle and be radically self-reliant very easily, you are relying on others to carry some of your gear, unless you are coming for just a couple of days. However, with pulsing I don't see a big problem. Ride your bike in the pulse. Stop. Get off and socialize like all the other people who are wandering through the pulse. If you need some shade sit next to an RV or ask to go into one, I can assure you that you will get invited. But many people seem to spend the entire pulse outside their vehicle. When you get close to the blacktop, put on your leathers. You will be going much slower than a bicycle until you get to the end of the line.

There is no reason to jump ahead of everybody else in line. Wait your turn like the rest of us.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby DancesWithElves » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:40 pm

We got out so fast when leaving on Sunday at 11 am that we only had time to do one rushed round of in-flight service to those around us - paused briefly for one surge, and then *bam* - back on the pavement! :shock: Good 'ole BRC - the only place I'd ever say I'd like to take a little longer to leave!
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby Skyote » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:52 pm

Exodus was an unfortunate end to a great week for us. Admittedly we left at a bad time (12:30pm Monday) but we were prepared for about 5 hours. A nearby Ranger quoted that time as were hopping in the car. The line wasn't even into the city at that point, but we still spent 9 hours waiting. We had some food, but minimal water as we were overloaded already and got rid of our extra before leaving camp. Not BMORG's fault, just a bummer for us. And BMIR reporting 5-7 hour waits the entire time we were in line, including past the 8 hour mark, didn't help. Shoulda turned it off sooner but we were hoping for...well, hope!

Some thoughts:
-the outside lanes DID move faster than he middle lanes. We were tracking vehicles and those on the outside quickly disappeared forever, while those in the middle lanes tracked roughly with us (at least for several hours). My biggest mistake was not trusting my gut and telling my bf to get in the far left lane at the beginning. In 2007 our camp's three cars entered the line at the same time. One car bound for Sacramento got into the far left, the over two got into a middle lane. The Sac folks called to tell us they were home while we were still in line! I assumed, silly me, that in 4 years they could solve that problem. And you wonder why people change lanes?

-speaking of lane changing, IMO it's much less of an issue than the mismanaged merges. At several points (merging into the gate road, going from 2 to 8, and then going from 8 back to 2) merges are totally unmanaged (favoring the aggressive) or managed in a way that strongly favors the outside lanes. As far as I could tell, the janky merges meant that the outside lanes moved at about twice the rate as the inner lanes.

-everyone praises the efforts of the too-small Exodus crew, and I admit up front that I don't know the details of the job. However. We saw not one single Exodus worker until the last 30 minutes, and those three were working hard herding cats. I thought at this point "wow, hey are hard up for help!". Imagine our surprise as we finally approached the blacktop to see at least 20 uniformed staffers/volunteers hanging around a few official vehicles, not doing a damn thing. It's possible they were not Exodus volunteers and were performing some other vital function...hanging around, chatting, leaning on cars...but if they WERE, perhaps next year they can be cruising the line, checking for stall points, and managing the merges. It's a simple matter to ensure that each lane waits approximately the same amount of time, but until the last tiny bit it's an entirely unmanaged free-for-all.

There's an arena in Washington that holds tens of thousands, and is in the sticks. Two-lane road for many miles before any major freeway. I've only been there once, but it was for a sold-out Radiohead show. At least as many vehicles were attempting to leave that amphitheater at exactly the same time as tried to leave all of Monday, and it took 3 hours to get to the freeway. I'm certainly no expert on this, but watching the chaos for 9 hours followed by a very smooth ride past the entrance (yes, through every "bottleneck") tells me the problems are entirely on the playa.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby Clar-i-ty » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:34 pm

I've decided that Exodus is now the first of the Burning Man after parties.

Sorry, but complaining about Exodus is like complaining that it's hot or dusty.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:13 pm

Skyote wrote:There's an arena in Washington that holds tens of thousands, and is in the sticks. Two-lane road for many miles before any major freeway. I've only been there once, but it was for a sold-out Radiohead show. At least as many vehicles were attempting to leave that amphitheater at exactly the same time as tried to leave all of Monday, and it took 3 hours to get to the freeway. I'm certainly no expert on this, but watching the chaos for 9 hours followed by a very smooth ride past the entrance (yes, through every "bottleneck") tells me the problems are entirely on the playa.

How often do they have shows. I bet they've honed it with more than one show a year.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby Skyote » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:43 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Skyote wrote:There's an arena in Washington that holds tens of thousands, and is in the sticks. Two-lane road for many miles before any major freeway. I've only been there once, but it was for a sold-out Radiohead show. At least as many vehicles were attempting to leave that amphitheater at exactly the same time as tried to leave all of Monday, and it took 3 hours to get to the freeway. I'm certainly no expert on this, but watching the chaos for 9 hours followed by a very smooth ride past the entrance (yes, through every "bottleneck") tells me the problems are entirely on the playa.

How often do they have shows. I bet they've honed it with more than one show a year.


Great point! I'm sure that's the case, they certainly have far more chances to try out the best method, and likely even have different protocols for different circumstances. And you've got a majority regular cars, with few school buses, rvs, and overload trailers. I still think the point can be made, though, that we can't simply blame the entire situation on the remote nature of the event and the two lane highway.
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:45 am

Skyote wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Skyote wrote:There's an arena in Washington that holds tens of thousands, and is in the sticks. Two-lane road for many miles before any major freeway. I've only been there once, but it was for a sold-out Radiohead show. At least as many vehicles were attempting to leave that amphitheater at exactly the same time as tried to leave all of Monday, and it took 3 hours to get to the freeway. I'm certainly no expert on this, but watching the chaos for 9 hours followed by a very smooth ride past the entrance (yes, through every "bottleneck") tells me the problems are entirely on the playa.

How often do they have shows. I bet they've honed it with more than one show a year.


Great point! I'm sure that's the case, they certainly have far more chances to try out the best method, and likely even have different protocols for different circumstances. And you've got a majority regular cars, with few school buses, rvs, and overload trailers. I still think the point can be made, though, that we can't simply blame the entire situation on the remote nature of the event and the two lane highway.

Yeah, we can debate the nuances for-fucking-ever...
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby red arrow » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:53 am

we left centre camp exit at 1pm on monday, got to the road at 6pm so it only took us five hours

we were on the outside right lane for the whole time

was still a killer though, but thats just the way it goes
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby delle » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:33 pm

red arrow wrote:we left centre camp exit at 1pm on monday, got to the road at 6pm so it only took us five hours

we were on the outside right lane for the whole time

was still a killer though, but thats just the way it goes



I find this kind of interesting.

We left at noon sharp and it took 7.5 hours from first stop to pavement.

Skyote left at noon-thirty and reports 9 hours.

Both of us were in the middle lanes.

The outer lanes definitely were moving more quickly. Which seems really wrong to me.


(still, I personally didn't mind it at all, and had a great time meeting people during the wait. Highlights: the guy with the lotion for our hands and the guy with the gas can full of the most delicious stuff I think I've ever tasted!!)
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby felony » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:51 pm

I'm with Clar-i-ty on this. 7 hours to pavement on Monday. Moving pic-nic on top of the hood of my car. Chilled absinthe for those who wanted to partake. People walked around misting, handing out home made trail mix, Ice pops, dried fruit. We just stayed near the car, moved a mile when we could, popped back out and continued to enjoy the last little bit of the BM vibe. I Still haven't washed my car. Need to snort up a little more Playa before I can let go
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Re: Exodus 2011

Postby delle » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:10 pm

It just occurred to me.

To create an equity in the lane advancement, maybe every 10th car or so in each lane could have a marker of a different colour or shape corresponding to placement -- then those directing could easily see just how far ahead or behind any given lane was. Seems to me this would cut down on line-jumping (or line CREATING -- which brought the first harsh tone out of me in the entire event) as well if everyone knew going in that their lane would reach the end at the same time as every other one.

Of course this might not be at all feasible when factoring in breakdowns and peeps not being anywhere near their vehicles when the clock hit the hour.
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