Camp Fees?

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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:05 pm

United delivers. Which can be worth the extra money do you don't have to do some wacky towing thing when you've got other freight to move and a time limit to beat.

Or so I understand.
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Postby googbox » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:06 pm

Hmm.... Lost-- are you talking about the camp I was at? ;)

Yeah, by Thursday the public port-a-potties were way better.

I'm going to beg that we a)use a company that will clean the pots and b) put them closer to the street so the cleaning companies can come do that service.

My van was fairly close to the potties which was great and convenient at first and really sucked after Thursday.
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Postby Boijoy » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:36 pm

United is $450.00 delivered and picked up. Includes 1 cleaning. Additional cleanings are $25.00 ( if you can get them to come back ).
It is awesome having your own potty though. :) oh that's 2010 prices.
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Postby LostinReno » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:22 pm

googbox wrote:Hmm.... Lost-- are you talking about the camp I was at? ;)

Yeah, by Thursday the public port-a-potties were way better.

I'm going to beg that we a)use a company that will clean the pots and b) put them closer to the street so the cleaning companies can come do that service.

My van was fairly close to the potties which was great and convenient at first and really sucked after Thursday.


That'd be the one! :lol: Looks like my post was deleted, apparently it was too sales like, sorry about that. Which is kind of odd since it was about a company that BMORG contracts anyway.
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Postby AntiM » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:23 am

Wasn't me, I would have contacted you to let you know why. Eplaya allows referrals anyway, and the BMORG contract would have zip-zero-nada to do with it.
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Postby LostinReno » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:13 pm

AntiM wrote:Wasn't me, I would have contacted you to let you know why. Eplaya allows referrals anyway, and the BMORG contract would have zip-zero-nada to do with it.

Eh, no big thing. :D
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Camp fees 2011?

Postby marck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:02 pm

So . . . Now that the countdown is less than 100 days.

Does anyone know what camps are charging fees this year and what they are offering for that amount?
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Postby Savannah » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:20 pm

There are many camps and highly varied leadership, so that might be a difficult question to answer. :) I'm not sure they're in agreement on fees, either . . . those tend to be unique and based on their costs.

ETA: It looks like you run a theme camp (?) based on your post in another thread. Are you setting fees based on what other camps charge, to stay competitive?

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Postby marck » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:23 am

I'm part of a theme camp but I do not "run" it.

I help build and haul the stuff out that supports the camp. I try to be the first there and last to leave.

I'm just curious about what people are paying for. Our ~30 person camp fees are under $50 and it goes directly into common consumables like paper towels, propane, genny fuel and JOTS.

When I hear of $200+ fees with very little additional benefits I tend to think that someone is profiting from others without telling them.

I've always thought the biggest rip off was the kitchen. I've seen poorly managed kitchens with poorly kept food which winds up being tossed. And most of the food purchased is crap or stuff I would not want to eat.
(That's saying a lot because I'll eat almost anything)

Most people would be better off bringing their own food with them. The nice thing about camping with others is the shared resources. Someone brings a genny, someone brings a stove. then you don't have to fork out all that cash for your own. You provide your portion of the infrastructure.

The only thing you really need is for everyone to respect other people's property. This isn't a materialistic viewpoint, if you feel this way don't use other people's stuff, get your own. Because if you break the stove you are using not only will the owner have to pay to get it fixed/replaced but no one else will be able to cook their food.

This tangented off so I'm done with this post. To sum it up, I'm looking for different perspectives, and maybe someone will give me an idea I can use.
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Postby marcgorcey » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:33 pm

I have been part of a shared kitchen experience. It's difficult, but we learned a lot over 6 years - how to organize volunteers, pre-shopping, reducing waste, and making food that people actually like are all things that you learn to do well over time.
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Postby Packoderm » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:03 pm

No dues or fees at Endorphin/Orphan Camp, but then I guess you wouldn't want to plan on getting a whole lot more than what you contribute. It all seemed to work out last year, so I don't see why it wouldn't this year too.
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:53 pm

No fees at Stag Camp either. Several of our members step up in medium and huge ways to provide assets for the camp. We consider it as voluntary gifts to the camp members and the other participants that arrive in camp and enjoy what we have. This also makes it so there are no group owned assets to have things get complicated over.
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby Igneouss » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:36 am

Camp fees = non-issue.
Or, you get what you pay for.

1 - go by yourself. Organize and transport everything you need all by yourself. Store your food properly. Bring enough water for cooking, cleaning, drinking, showers. Handle your grey water. Cart your moop home. Pay for all the stuff you need (camp fees).
2 - go with a few friends. Divide up the responsibilities. Share the costs. Share the labor. Pay for your share (camp fees).
3 - Get involved with a theme camp. Participate. Give your labor (labor has value = camp fees). Maybe your camp has a rental storage facility. Maybe they rent a truck or two. Maybe camp needs a new generator. Big camp like the one I am in = nice showers, meal plan (14 good, serious meals), alcohol, water delivered to the playa... You get the point. It all has to be paid for somehow. I pay my share and then I pay extra because I live far away and cannot give labor off season. I am happy to do it. It's a screaming good deal.

Sure, #3 has higher cost then #1. Sure some camps claim 'no fees' but I bet they do lots more labor. And divide up all the logistics such that each person's cost is roughly equal...but you still pay one way or another.
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby marck » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:30 am

Igneouss wrote:Sure, #3 has higher cost then #1.


If comparing the differences in complete equality, then option 1 should cost More than options 2 or 3 with 3 being the least cost.

Why do you think Option 3 is a higher cost?
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby Igneouss » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:00 pm

IMHO Option #3 is highest because one is contributing to the infrastructure of a big camp as well as all the other stuff. Really big theme camps have 5 figure budgets. Who paid for the tower of babble? or Opulent temple or Root society? You get the point...
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby marck » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:58 pm

Igneouss wrote:IMHO Option #3 is highest because one is contributing to the infrastructure of a big camp as well as all the other stuff. Really big theme camps have 5 figure budgets. Who paid for the tower of babble? or Opulent temple or Root society? You get the point...


I'm quite sure my camp has about five figures in equipment, I know that the Boobie Bar is solidly in the fives. Putting that investment into a camp is not hard to do. But not all theme camps are huge theme camps and not all camps have the same amenities that other camps have.

But you, as a camper, are not shouldering the burden of the entire infrastructure. You are paying just a portion of what you would have to pay to have the same installations on your own. With a larger group of people sharing the financial and construction burdens, the overall cost to camp with other people is less, even large scale theme camps.

It comes down to what are you wishing to contribute to and what amenities do you want available.
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby Cheyenne » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:06 am

T'Gon and pandora fees are $150 each: This includes everything except your food and bike transport - For us coming from abroad, space on the articulated truck and our water catered for is invaluable, as are the communal evap showers, the shade, a fully functioning kitchen, electric hookup for the recharging of rv batteries etc... I know this camp is costing around 10k to set up, and people have invested thousands of their own money to make it happen... we even have an air compressor to clean out the dust from the sound systems etc...

I remember having a whinge about camp fees, but when I saw the costings and the massive financial risks put up by a few people every year, it was more a proportionate contribution...
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby The Chinese » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:20 pm

Cheyenne wrote:T'Gon and pandora fees are $150 each: This includes everything except your food and bike transport - For us coming from abroad, space on the articulated truck and our water catered for is invaluable, as are the communal evap showers, the shade, a fully functioning kitchen, electric hookup for the recharging of rv batteries etc... I know this camp is costing around 10k to set up, and people have invested thousands of their own money to make it happen... we even have an air compressor to clean out the dust from the sound systems etc...

I remember having a whinge about camp fees, but when I saw the costings and the massive financial risks put up by a few people every year, it was more a proportionate contribution...


Thanks Cheyenne.... I appreciate the kind words...

It's hardest on The Mid-Size camps, like Us (Transmorphagon)... We also have had very healthy deabtes, and some not so healthy arguments about Camp dues... When it was just us, we often footed $500-$1000 each, and Built all of our infrastructure we own now - Sound System, Stage, Trusing, Lights, domes, Speedrail, etc. We don't have the numbers to "go Big" we're about 40, so we have to have a fee structure of $150. With gas at $4/gal and Power needed for camp, we hit 4k, Before we even get into deco and Repair of speakers (Last year I took $750 in damage), Decks (we lost 5 last year), rental of scaffolding, Cabling, etc et al. the inner circle al pay full dues, and much more out of our own pockets.

Trust me , We aren't profiting, and if we have a few hundred left over, we'll put it toward our Decompression party back in Los Angeles.

Chino
The Biggest Distraction... Funk On the Playa, Live uncut Funk, TheBomb, Comin at you from the Transmorphogon, 500 Kilowatts of Pure Funk Power. You Will be groovin'. So when yer sick of the Boomp Boomp of the Burn, come down to the T-Dome and Learn....
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Re: Camp Fees?

Postby Igneouss » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:12 am

Good discussion here!
I'm aware of camps that are reasonably elaborate but have no dues. Those folks simply divide the load and make the purchases individually. It works if you are small enough. They can claim to be 'no dues'. But in the end the members are putting out just as much money so it's essentially semantics.

I'm aware of a few camps that have 'angels'. In at least one case it's a person that rarely attends BM. But that camp still has dues as well.

Then there are a few camps that defy logic. Huge and expensive setups with relatively few members. Money is coming from somewhere. Or maybe each member is selling out thousands.

But most camps with any sort of theme and infrastructure seem to fall into a 'normal' dues paying model. It's all good. It makes BM what it is. Debate will rage. I suspect debate would rage louder if some folks actually could see how some of the camps operate financially.
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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