Camp Fees?

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Camp Fees?

Postby CalebCamera » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:28 pm

I'll admit I'm a bit new to this. (2nd year).
Is there a general range of what one might expect to pay as camp dues?
What would you expect for say $200. Is that high or low or average?
Do some larger camps offer discounts if you work (more than expected)?
I live 2500 miles from BRC and I'm trying to budget for next year.
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Postby Edana » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:44 pm

Two things quickly:

1. You don't have to join a camp (in fact, it may be preferable not to join one).

2. Not all camps charge fees. It totally depends on how they're set up.
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Postby weirdscience » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:03 am

i joined mine cough the new theme camp :)
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Postby gaminwench » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:31 am

fees vary widely, so do amenities...
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Postby Fire_Moose » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:28 am

200$ (for me) is on the high, i wont pay that side.

I would expect that includes showers, full kitchen, meals, plenty of personal space, lots of shade, lights and no drama.

Keep in mind you may also have to donate water towarsd the shower/bring food.
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Postby Dr. Pyro » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:30 am

Barbie Death Camp has a very modest fee structure. This year if you paid prior to July 1 dues were $50, after that $75, and if you paid on the playa (unless you were an international traveler) $100. The vast majority paid the $50. What did that get you? 800 feet of shade and three sofas, glowsticks for every night, access to our shower than ran electrically so you could actually get clean as well as some water (we pretty much ran out by Thursday, then it was BYOW), pancake breakfast on Wednesday, all the wine you wanted within reason, use of the 5500-watt generator, access to the art truck, hot dogs after the burn on Saturday night, guaranteed space and really as much as you need, and of course the attention of the thousands of visitor to our camp. Now is that worth $50? I would say so. We keep our dues structure low because we have so many people in the village. If there were only 40 people, we too would have to charge $125 or more. We are going to have to increase our dues this year modestly ($60 before June 1, then $90 after) since we haven't had a rate increase since 2004. But still, by Black Rock City standards, a bargain.
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Postby mdmf007 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:26 am

80.00 at our camp got your showers, 1800 feet shade, breakfast and dinner daily, and a bar.
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Postby buckycat » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:53 am

Dues have been $20-$30 per year at our camp for 5-6 years running, population of 35 to 65. Our avg yearly budget of ~1K has facilitated the accumulation of collective group gear including 1300 sq ft of shade, tables, shower, stripper pole/stage, 1000w sound system, carpets, lights, tools.

Stoves, sinks, showers, bar setup, evap pools, gennies, have been made available each year by motivated campers who step up to the needs. All camp members are expected to contribute to setup and take down.

We also have 6-7 group meals; everyone is on duty to provide, cook, clean up for one of those meals.

Sounds like at our camp we run it a little more low cost DIY than some. It's worked for us, but our growing size and aspirations may require higher fees next year.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:16 am

We have to pay for JotS, ice and bring booze for the bar.

I don't have a problem with this. Some flexibility is built in. I can't get behind the bar or do much to set up infrastructure, so I try to "greet" new customers at the bar and moop more to compensate.

We don't try and run it as a place that operates to get funds from campers. We hope you are here because you like the bar, and the people, and want to be with us. Does that make the money hurt less? I don't know. I'm a founding member, and see this through different eyes than someone asking these questions might.
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Postby The CO » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:36 am

We've charged a JoTS fee Since Terminal City started. Otherwise, this year was the first year that we charged dues, a whopping $20. Our fees were prompted by someone else in our camp that thought it was unfair that 3 of us were shouldering most of the infrastructure cost. Worked well this year.

I'm not a fan of the higher priced ($150-$300) all-inclusive deals. To each their own.
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Postby Rilopie » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:24 pm

I guess it all depends on the camp. I paid like $150 one year- and when we got there there were no kitchen, no showers, and no space to stretch out...we were packed in there like sardines. Major let down. :(
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Postby Dustdevil » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:44 pm

Our camp is $15/per day /per group (or vehicle). IE: if there are four of you staying in your RV or camping in a tent and you stayed for five days, your dues would total $75. Split 4 ways it is not too bad. For this you get to be on our power grid, you have access to our margarita machines, you have access to our 40' tower to view the City. We have no kitchen or showers, no porta pottie. We have a large shade structure and some cool fire art and other devices to entertain yourselves. Everyone is required to work. Set up, strike, work the bar etc. Everyone is responsible to keep their area free of moop. Everyone is required to help if we are doing a show. Usually that is just perimeter as most don't have Pyro experience for show set up. We usually have between 60-75 people in our camp. I don't feel we ask too much, but we have had those who have not been asked to return. That is usually because they won't do their share of the work.
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Postby Eric » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:23 pm

My camp is basically 4 people. We pay our share of the RV/ Gas/ water costs. We work on the paper. We pay for and bring everything we need. No actual dues. The occasional member who drives up with us but camps in their own tent just throws in for gas.

Our village also has no dues, but you are expected to be completely self-reliant. If you need it, you bring it.
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Postby Bling » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:00 pm

We paid nothing but volunteer time to help run events, and got:
-- Awesome campmates
-- A spontaneous potluck dinner one night with a costume contest & prizes for all
-- Access to a communal shower (that we didn't use because we bring our own)
-- A huge shade structure with tons-o-chairs (plus cookies)

We have no communal kitchen, because we didn't want one--we're all happier cooking/eating/cleaning up for ourselves.
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Volunteer - and join the camp!

Postby DancesWithElves » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:16 pm

Many of the larger volunteer organizations have camps, and don't charge a camp fee - your fee is your participation, if you want to look at it that way. Greeters, Lamplighters, BRC airport are some of the larger ones. I was a part of the Lamplighters for four years, and it was a wonderful way to be a part of the community! So if you find a group that calls to you, might be a great solution all around.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:10 pm

I'm going to go at this from another direction.

I'm not sure what the amenities are that you are looking for. But I urge you to consider finding a camp that you think is "kick-ass" that you'd be happy to be with, even if you end up eating clif bars and taking baby wipe showers.
If you are camping with people you enjoy being with and doing something that you really want to do with your on-playa time then the budgeting and paying for it doesn't matter all that much.
If we put it as your founding a camp and nurturing it through it's first 3 - 5 years then we have, you've got your people who want to be together, then your "theme" (if you have one), and then you start building your camp. So the first year or two you bring in your shade structure and everyone supplies the basics for his/herself. Then some one builds a shower, and someone else gets a wild hair to make a "bucking rabbit" (what is a bucking rabbit? I don't know, and since I just made it up, maybe we'll never know), and they get placed. Then the next year 3 new people who love the bucking rabbit join and one of them brings a basic kitchen set up and 2 people who were with the camp from the beginning decide that the bucking rabbit needs a giant snapping turtle to go with it and you are off to the races: getting gennies and lighting and ...well you get the jist of it.
I am going to suggest that you don't join a camp unless you find one that you love. Then, whether the dues are money, or time, or effort you'll be excited to put it in, rather than counting pennies to get to some sort of solution you can only be tepid about.
As for the whole not living near enough to drive, there are various solutions, storage spaces, shipping beforehand, finding a more local friend who can store and your stuff. I'd suggest that you figure out what works for you, rather than trying to squeeze yourself into a themecamp just for convieniece.
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Postby Boijoy » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:35 pm

Image

+

Image

bucking rabbit
don't forget to floss
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Postby AntiM » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:34 pm

Eric wrote:My camp is basically 4 people. We pay our share of the RV/ Gas/ water costs. We work on the paper. We pay for and bring everything we need. No actual dues. The occasional member who drives up with us but camps in their own tent just throws in for gas.

Our village also has no dues, but you are expected to be completely self-reliant. If you need it, you bring it.


We do the same in Hushville.
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Postby Elorrum » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:41 pm

Image

could happen....
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:01 pm

Rilopie wrote:I guess it all depends on the camp. I paid like $150 one year- and when we got there there were no kitchen, no showers, and no space to stretch out...we were packed in there like sardines. Major let down. :(


No, major lesson! This isn't an event where one makes hotel reservations, it's a cover-your-own-ass kind of thing. Being with a camp ought to be about being with your friends... not about renting amenities.
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Postby TomServo » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:19 am

Large camps are expensive...even after fund raising parties. I'm not going to ask for camp dues, but rather contributions to the booze and mixer stock. While I undertand the need for dues, Id like to think the campmates are more important than the camp. BM is an expensive trip...if they demand dues, make sure they're well established!
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Postby bluesbob » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:08 am

Start your own theme camp, charge yourself, then come back and tell how much fees are.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:03 am

Boijoy wrote:
bucking rabbit

Certain the most literal interpretation. I'm not sure if that is verified or contradicted by the fact that the orgasmatron was floating around in my head when I pulled that rabbit out it.
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Postby Rilopie » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:21 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Rilopie wrote:I guess it all depends on the camp. I paid like $150 one year- and when we got there there were no kitchen, no showers, and no space to stretch out...we were packed in there like sardines. Major let down. :(


No, major lesson! This isn't an event where one makes hotel reservations, it's a cover-your-own-ass kind of thing. Being with a camp ought to be about being with your friends... not about renting amenities.


Totally agree! It was my first year and I went along with friends who wanted to camp there. We got there and built our own shower, kitchen, and shade structure, we had no problem making what little space we had fantastic. But we were kinda wondering where all of that money went...
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Postby Cheyenne » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:15 am

I read this following article in the BRC weekly for 2010:

[quote]our
new readership right off the bat, I
have a question. Did you pay
“Camp Duesâ€
313

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Postby The Bass » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:42 am

Disorient's dues are high: $200+ depending on when you register. We give discounts to virgins and partial refunds to folks who stay the week after for breakdown/cleanup (ie a virgin who stayed until Weds after the burn wouldn't pay anything).

We have communal meals, showers, potties, power, water and other stuff.

But the dues also pay for sound system rental, generator rental, lighting rental, transport of our gear, storage for our containers, repairs to our mutant vehicle, etc.

I'm not a big fan of people thinking they're paying cash in exchange for comfort and services. Not too playa-terrific.

I will say that we have a healthy internal debate going about whether we're too tricked-out to foster enough self-reliance.

Also, no one gets paid anything, no one takes money out. I am happy to say that this year we _finally_ got out of debt (mostly through fundraisers in NYC) and don't have to depend on the kindness of a few big donors each year any more. After 10 years we're finally getting to be relatively self-sustaining.

May be oversharing, but this is Burning Man, and I figured it might be worthwhile hearing about this topic from the perspective of a camp on the other end of the scale.

Much respect to no- or low-dues camps.

Anyone who wants to chat privately about big camp organization, finance, etc feel free to pm me.
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Postby brushfire on the playa » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:09 am

all this talk about camp dues or fees is strange. these $200 fees don't seem to ridiculous. each year i camp with just a few friends, like maybe 5-10 depending. no village, no larger camp, just us. and i would say that with gas, food, supplies, glowsticks, beer/alcohol, gifts, etc i am paying well over $200. not even to mention the ticket!

do other people camp this way and would agree that $200 is about what it costs for food/supplies/beer for burning man? it might even be more than $200 for me, it depends on how many people are camping with us that year. and with this money i'm spending, none of it goes to other people doing my cooking or cleaning and we don't have a shower. i'm doing everything myself. but i think i prefer that to having someone else do it for me. but i guess if you really didn't want to do any of this yourself, paying something around $200 for someone else to take up their burn time to do it for you doesn't seem too pricey. maybe it's just me...?
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Postby Fire_Moose » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:57 am

brushfire on the playa wrote:all this talk about camp dues or fees is strange. these $200 fees don't seem to ridiculous. each year i camp with just a few friends, like maybe 5-10 depending. no village, no larger camp, just us. and i would say that with gas, food, supplies, glowsticks, beer/alcohol, gifts, etc i am paying well over $200. not even to mention the ticket!

do other people camp this way and would agree that $200 is about what it costs for food/supplies/beer for burning man? it might even be more than $200 for me, it depends on how many people are camping with us that year. and with this money i'm spending, none of it goes to other people doing my cooking or cleaning and we don't have a shower. i'm doing everything myself. but i think i prefer that to having someone else do it for me. but i guess if you really didn't want to do any of this yourself, paying something around $200 for someone else to take up their burn time to do it for you doesn't seem too pricey. maybe it's just me...?



Just note that the 200$ doesn't mean someone is going to take care of things for ya.

the 200$ is on top of yer water, food, batteries...and i doubt many camps take trash for ya...don't confuse camp fees with having yer mom there.
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Postby Elderberry » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:23 am

Fire_Moose wrote:
brushfire on the playa wrote:all this talk about camp dues or fees is strange. these $200 fees don't seem to ridiculous. each year i camp with just a few friends, like maybe 5-10 depending. no village, no larger camp, just us. and i would say that with gas, food, supplies, glowsticks, beer/alcohol, gifts, etc i am paying well over $200. not even to mention the ticket!

do other people camp this way and would agree that $200 is about what it costs for food/supplies/beer for burning man? it might even be more than $200 for me, it depends on how many people are camping with us that year. and with this money i'm spending, none of it goes to other people doing my cooking or cleaning and we don't have a shower. i'm doing everything myself. but i think i prefer that to having someone else do it for me. but i guess if you really didn't want to do any of this yourself, paying something around $200 for someone else to take up their burn time to do it for you doesn't seem too pricey. maybe it's just me...?



Just note that the 200$ doesn't mean someone is going to take care of things for ya.

the 200$ is on top of yer water, food, batteries...and i doubt many camps take trash for ya...don't confuse camp fees with having yer mom there.


Yup, good point. Dues usually cover infrastructure like showers, shade, etc. For our camp it also covers cost of providing the root beer floats we serve. There are some camps that do include meals, trash and other amenities, but the dues are usually considerably higher, in my experience.

One of the guys that usually camps with us wanted to try one of these 'full service' camps...everything was provided including a yurt, but I believe the dues were $500.00 per person.

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Postby zorro sings » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:14 am

We have had dues for many years.Seems only fair considering the amount of work,time and money it takes to make a theme camp happen on an annual basis.Campers should also remember that some of their dues goes to previous years work,time and money as well.A favourable BRC address to camp at does not happen unless many people before you made it possible.Now it's your turn.

We also find that charging dues cuts down considerably on the no shows we were plagued with in our earlier years of operation.

For the record we charge $75 and a 24 cans of beer.(No Coors products)This provides you with use of our tent and gennie,trash removal and a bike.Some years we have a shower,some years we don't.The most sacred of The Suarez Principles in our camp is No Kitchen.We always assume you can feed yourself.
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