Towards a More Accessible Burn

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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:31 am

Mine is about 3 1/2 feet high, maybe 4... a ramp/platform would make it easier but it still takes people to do some lifting because there's a 1 1/2 - 2 foot drop down to the floor. I'm mentioning this because that's another design point of many mutant vehicles. However, that same high freeboard that makes chair entry/exit a bit tougher also makes it safe to drive around with a wheelchair on the back. You really couldn't fall off.
In my experience, not having clear space to accommodate a chair is more the deal-breaker than not having a self-loading ramp system, considering that people were always available in BRC to help load. It would be nice though, those powered chairs are HEAVY!

I know cuz my sister is wheelchair-bound.

LeChat, good point about the effect of people seeing chair loading ramps... maybe you're right, even if no one has a vehicle compatible with them, seeing them might keep it in their mind when building.

It's hard to convince people to compromise the design of their MV for the 1% that might use it, but sometimes you don't have to. That same clear space that can hold a chair is just as useful for carrying bikes, coolers, standing people, and whatever else.
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:12 am

Looks like The Contraption’s deck is right about 27â€
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:51 pm

LeChatNoir wrote:A short gangway could accommodate small variances that any platform height changes couldn’t (or didn’t) adjust to.


That is the idea with the concept I am coming up with. It will probably be a platform at the average entry height of the vehicles. The lift will be on one side and a ramp that can be raised or lowered to the actual vehicle height will come off the other side.

If I had a 10 foot gangway and chose a 10% slope as the maximum up or down slope of that ramp at the end I would have 2 feet of total vertical adjustment to match MV height. One foot rise in ten feet of length is a pretty heavy slope but I think it could be negotiated.

Any thoughts?
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:03 pm

I think I see where you’re going.

The approach I was thinking on was to have the lowest setting of a height adjustable platform be at a height that would allow an access ramp to be at the 1:12â€
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:15 pm

So you’re thinking a lift like the one you posted the pic of is what lifts the person up to the fixed height platform. Then a long gangway accommodates the variances in MV height. So if the platform is built permanently at, say 24â€
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Postby motskyroonmatick » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:17 pm

[quote="LeChatNoir"]So you’re thinking a lift like the one you posted the pic of is what lifts the person up to the fixed height platform. Then a long gangway accommodates the variances in MV height. So if the platform is built permanently at, say 24â€
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:49 pm

What about a platform with a long ramp... then once up, the ramp lifts to become a gangway? The ramp could have a hand-cranked winch & pulley arrangement, and the chairperson wouldn't have to depend on the lift not failing and dropping them because the ramp end would be on the ground at first, then on the MV deck while boarding?
The longer the ramp, the less angle and greater height range.
I'd want side rails on it so there was no worry about dropping off the sides. Crypto said falling while in the chair was pretty fucking scary without legs to land on... I bet... it sounds pretty fucking scary to fall off of something in one of those things WITH legs.
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:51 pm

This is just what I am thinking.


I do believe your thinking is sound. The tricky part now seems to be the long gangway and it's positioning apparatus.
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:19 pm

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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:26 pm

here is an idea;

http://www.wheelchair-lifts-ramps.com/Solid-5--Ramp.htm
http://www.wheelchair-lifts-ramps.com/S ... -Ramps.htm

buy 12 of these $261 x 12 = $3132

then buy 12x chains and 12x locks

secure them at strategic locations (ie; 1 each plaza, 2 center camp, 1 man, 1 temple, 4 along Esplanade)

horrible, and depends on others to set-up and help load, but better than nothing?
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:17 pm

And there's still the question of mvs having space that can be used that way.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:16 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:And there's still the question of mvs having space that can be used that way.

Yes exactly! That's way more important than ramps to nowhere.
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Postby fciron » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:41 pm

Ms. Fishy,

LeChat and I have found an elegant solution for the access issue, but I could use some suggestions for my art piece.

It's basically a giant spirograph. The outer ring gear is a circular fence and the central moving gear is suspended from a track above. The track ensures that the central gear level and against the fence. The central gear will have handlebars on it so that people can step in and push it around as though they were the pencil in a spirograph. (The gear is a toothed ring with an open frame in the center.)

The handlebars are above the gear framework, so people with less reach can grab onto the frame instead. I know where to put the handlebars for standing peoples, because I am one and because they have more latitude, but I am not sure what height to use for the lower level. What do you think is a comfortable tow height?

I think accessibility is a building process. It's not really anymore work to do this, but I would not have thought of it on my own. If people see an MV with wheelchair access, or if the org made a point of indicating which installations were accessible a lot of people would pick up on it without being told what to do.
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Postby LeChatNoir » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:51 pm

fciron wrote:I think accessibility is a building process. It's not really anymore work to do this, but I would not have thought of it on my own. If people see an MV with wheelchair access, or if the org made a point of indicating which installations were accessible a lot of people would pick up on it without being told what to do.


That's my line of logic.

Incidentally, fciron, you might consider starting a thread here on eplaya detailing out the project. I have no doubt that there would be some good feedback, especially about the strut spacing and possible loading issues.

Plus, I think folks would just like to hear more about it 'cause it's cool.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:50 am

I was looking at some motorcycle jacks that go up 20 inches..

Maybe 6 inch higher platform (on the jack) and a flip out ramp to fit a MV..
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:10 pm

I'll have to get out the measureing tape when I get home.

YOu could get a sense by sitting in a chair and streaching out your arms. Then sit a few other people in chairs and measure thenm at maximum streach. A wheelchair is a chair after all. Measure a couple of kids, too.
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Postby fciron » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:22 pm

Thanks, I wasn't sure how much the sear height on wheel-chairs differed from standard chairs.

Upon reflection, it would have to be pretty close so that standard desks and tables would be accessible as well. I'll check a few folks.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:26 pm

There is some variation. Afterall, there is variation in the people riding. If you're a leggy chap, it's vital to have legroom, especially if you cannot feel uncomfortable. (This is using one case. There is a lot of variation in the population.)
I believe that mine is called a demi or a hemi and it's three inches shorter than a standard.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:47 am

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Postby MaryLou » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:54 pm

My husband can use a walker for short distances but tires easily. I'm bringing a big strong caregiver to push his chair through the tough spots and up those steep ramps. We're putting on the big off-road tires which will smooth out the ride.

Asking for help is a tough one, but we'll take it if offered and we need it and thank you very much. We plan to use our car to get close to the art installations and chair or walker to get up close and personal. There are many things he will not be able to do (like climbing anything) and with his brain injury, most of them will be too scary anyway.

I've thought of asking others in need to share the ride but I'm not sure where to post the offer or how to hook up. Don't know yet where we'll be camping in the City.

I've been to the burn twice without him - both time wishing he could be there to share. This year we're giving it a try and he is so excited! The caregiver's excited! Damn, I hope this works.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:06 am

MaryLou wrote:We plan to use our car to get close to the art installations and chair or walker to get up close and personal.


You've been to the burn before... did you see people, other than law enforcement, driving cars around the playa?
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Postby gyre » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:25 am

I kept seeing some flying dutchman from the floating world, seemingly haunting the playa ever since.

What wraiths must pilot that eerie craft, from so long ago!


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Postby Captain Goddammit » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:00 am

I can count a LOT of mutant vehicles originally built prior to Floating World. Most have evolved since, but are essentially the same rig.
All are a lot of effort, not lightly decorated cars.
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Postby gyre » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:12 am

And yet you haven't noticed all the sedans and vans licensed as handicapped vehicles out there, which shows how unobtrusive they can be.


And anyway, isn't a boat just a Camry for the water?
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Postby MaryLou » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:33 am

[quote="Captain Goddammit"]
You've been to the burn before... did you see people, other than law enforcement, driving cars around the playa?[/quote]

Almost none, you're right. But I've never seen anyone try it with a walker either. And the very few power chairs I've seen looked broken down with someone rying to make them run again. A manual chair would be impossible to use by oneself.

If my husband was to ride on your MV would you be prepared to get him to an outhouse when he needed it, give him the considerable time he'd need to use it and not drive off and leave him stranded? Would you be willing to take him back to his camp when his energy runs out long before yours? I doubt if you or any other MV would be interested in doing that once or twice a day, every day.

Do you suggest because he has special needs he should be banned?
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Postby gyre » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:38 am

MaryLou, enable bbcode and smiles on your last post and on your profile and the quotes should work.

Everything should work in preview.
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:26 am

MaryL,

There is a camp that builds and loans playa friendly chairs.. They are capeable of going out to the deep playa art.. They are also set up to charge your chairs...
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:27 am

MaryL,

There is a camp that builds and loans playa friendly chairs.. They are capeable of going out to the deep playa art.. They are also set up to charge your chairs...
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:39 am

And how many mutants are even accessible to chairs?

And even Mr. Fixit admits that he didn't make enough chair-friendly art cars for everyone who wants/needs to use them. Can I get a show of hands of people who want to spend the entire event in camp, except for two morning jaunts?
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Postby gyre » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:50 pm

Mr. Fixit's goal was always to try to help people acquire their own mode of transportation eventually.
Often people just need technical guidance or ideas, though I think cost is usually the major obstacle to getting something more playa friendly.

He has had many successes.
He and his camp loaned out as many modes of transport as possible, but they never had the resources to cover everyone all the time.
He was loaning out a range from powerchairs to a full blown mutant.

As of last year, he had passed the project on to others.
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