Busted by the cops at the burn

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Busted by the cops at the burn

Postby ubu » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:51 pm

We had BLM rangers come into our dome and bust a few of us because they saw they say someone smoking from a pipe.

they searched a few people and the premises without asking for consent.
i guess they figured they had reasonable suspicion and probable cause.
now i dont think they had either, but they rolled us over like dead salmon and searched everyone in the dome. most were just drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco, but one fellow had his salvia, a legal herb, siezed.

we had a lawyer in our dome, who talked the rangers down. tickets were issued to four people for marijuana possession and some was siezed.

my question is about the wording on the tickets, my lawyer was curious as well about the wording. it does not say, i plead guilty or i plead no contest, it only says i wish to terminate this matter by paying the above fine of $250. strange indeed. so this does not result in any record at all? just a fine? will anything show up in their NCIC records? does anyone know out there?

there was plenty wrong that the cops did, but the lawyer says it is not worth raising a ruckus about, unless. unless it affects the records and immigration status of these members or our camp. they are foreign nationals and I am concerned about their fate. I warned them not to smoke outside but told them it was ok inside our dome. apparently not.
i feel like i should have warned them more emphatically.


be careful out there next time!

as someone who have been involved in this thingy since the early nineties and has not been back in a few years, i was disheartened to see this kind of over policing and surveillance. makes me never want to go back.
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Postby Lydia Love » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:18 pm

I'd be interested to hear more on the issue - I actually felt that overall the police presence seemed mellower and less pervasive this year than the last couple of years. My perceptions, however, could be skewed (they usually are).
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Postby ubu » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:41 pm

i wonder if we couldn't get some comments from you legal savvy types out there? not legal advice mind you, just information.

just what exactly is this termination convention that they are using on these tickets?
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The cops seemed low key because they were more under cover

Postby dusthead » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:56 pm

The cops were hard to notice this year, but there were lots of them. They just looked like randoms in white pickups or normal looking guys on 4 wheel ATVs.

We heard from a camp on 9:30 near the bathrooms that got searched because the cops thought a glass digereedoo was a giant bong.

It's all about revenue collection at this point, and BMORG just rolls over and lets the cops do whatever they want.
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Possetion of Roling papers...

Postby Borris » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:30 pm

we had a couple of guys at our camp (Intel. hostel) issued 250$ tickets for possetion of roling papers, they were picked up by an undercover art golf cart with a guy in drag and a girl.

and a cop tried to find out from me at center camp where he could score some E. he tried to pay me a dollar for a cigarette i gave him, when i asked him if he was a cop he said yes. (I guess it's the Nevada entrapment laws).

Police was present and rather seen at the event at all times, either on unmarked ATV's and SUV's, in proper police cars or on foot. still i guess it's a pound of flesh BMorg has to give to the authorities to run this event.
Shit, where was i for the last week... ehm...
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Postby Halo Joe » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:46 pm

I had several people ask me where they could find drugs -- some in VERY stupid ways, such as, "So, where can I/we buy drugs?" Of course, my response was: "If you're serious, you're going about this in the wrong way. If you're a cop, you're going about this in the wrong way."

Oh, and by the by, I neither sold nor purchased drugs at BM this year. So there, nyah.
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Postby Hotspur » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:17 pm

Yeah,I had a very cute girl come up to me at Lite Brite and ask me if I knew where she could get some mushrooms. Now, I doubt she was a cop (unless they've changed their recruiting policies--she was probably too young and let's just say she wasn't dressed like a cop!) but even if I did know, I wouldn't have told her.
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shakes head...

Postby manberne » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:54 pm

"Ask them if they are a cop"
Good idea...friend of mine was asked by some fairly straight guy (with a glow thing in his mouth) about some E....guy was just wierd... he ignored him, but the guy was persistent.

I forgot you can ask them their copness...yet still be vewwy caewfull...
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Postby III » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:13 am

>forgot you can ask them their copness

that's a myth. i mean, you can ask, but them denying it is no violation of your rights.
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ixnay on the entrapmentsay

Postby manberne » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:59 pm

too bad...I need to do some more research on entrapment. Not good to make assumptions especially in the ASHCROFT era we are in...

Anyone do the research on this topic and can point me in some good directions?
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Postby III » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:09 pm

the entrapment laws vary by state, but they are designed to protect people from being coerced into engaging into behavior they would not do. it seems to me that simply asking if the person is a cop indicates a willingness to engage in a known illegal behavior more than it does a reluctance to do so.
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Curious

Postby manberne » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:18 pm

III wrote:the entrapment laws vary by state, but they are designed to protect people from being coerced into engaging into behavior they would not do. it seems to me that simply asking if the person is a cop indicates a willingness to engage in a known illegal behavior more than it does a reluctance to do so.


Good reminder....I know the next time I get asked at BMAN if I know where to get illegal substances, I will be curious to see how it plays out. In the meantime, I'll have my bases covered and be discreet.
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Re: Possetion of Roling papers...

Postby zeno » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:19 pm

Borris wrote:we had a couple of guys at our camp (Intel. hostel) issued 250$ tickets for possetion of roling papers, they were picked up by an undercover art golf cart with a guy in drag and a girl.


Let me guess... he looked like those guys with beards who dress up for ladies night in the Budweiser commercial.

:D
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Postby PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:51 am

I wonder if it's even worth mentioning that one way to have no concerns about cops at Burning Man is to not do anything illegal?
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Postby tbone » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:33 am

What part of "no vending" changes when you want drugs? No vending = no vending.

The only *possible* exception I could see would be for the folks who fly in from other countries. On th eother hand, if you can't live without your drugs for a week, stay home and go to rehab.
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:50 am

PJ wrote:I wonder if it's even worth mentioning that one way to have no concerns about cops at Burning Man is to not do anything illegal?


Naw, that'd be too fucking easy.
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Postby ubu » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:24 am

That or organize enough to get some reasonable civil rights back.

if the cops find that you have any meds on you, absolutely anything that requires a prescription and you do not have the prescription with you, that is a schedule 1 controlled substance and you will be ticketed and your domicile will be searched without a warrant. they may further go out of bounds and attempt to search everyone currently inside your domicile.

One guy was ticketed for tylenol 3 which he claimed he had a prescription for but put in a pill box.

Now, you could applaud the cops and chastise the free spirits who want the freedom do what they will with their own bodies, but I'll call you a docile body and a victim of the panopticon. I call this behavior by the cops over and unneccessary policing of adults.
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Postby PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:30 am

ubu wrote:...organize enough to get some reasonable civil rights back...


It was hard enough to organize people to eliminate slavery, acquire voting rights for women, and eliminate racial segregation laws. Somehow I suspect that organizing people that want to be stoned will be tough since they'd rather be getting stoned than marching in the streets and organizing political events.
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:17 pm

ubu wrote:...organize enough to get some reasonable civil rights back.


Define "reasonable."

YMMV
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Postby precipitate » Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:36 pm

> if the cops find that you have any meds on you, absolutely anything that
> requires a prescription and you do not have the prescription with you

If it's in the original bottle, that's the same as the prescription. Are you so
strapped for space you can't pack your pill bottles? Or do you really think
it's a reasonable excuse to say, "But Officer, I have a prescription for this
Oxycontin at home, it's for my chronic back pain. I know I only have one
here, but I swear I have the script for it. 'Scuse me while I just chew on
this, I'm feeling a bit nervous."

> chastise the free spirits who want the freedom do what they will with
> their own bodies,

OK. Now I'm done. Fucking stoners want everything their way and they
want it now, is that about it? Quit complaining about how things are and
fucking change them if you don't like it. I don't chastise their desire for
"freedom," I challenge the position that because they want it, it's OK to
violate the law and then whine that they got busted. Laws bad? Change
them. Or violate them, and pay the price when you get caught.

Or would you prefer that I take my illegal assault rifle to my local range
and when the cops show up to take it away say, "But Officer, I don't agree
with California's assault weapon ban, so I thought I'd just do a little
shooting today." Pretty much the same thing.

If you want to run a PSA on how not to get busted for drugs at Burning
Man, go for it. If you want to lobby for repeal of marijuana laws, go for it.
But don't tell me you were wronged. You weren't.

(And yeah, I know it wasn't you, it was just people you know. Same diff.)
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Postby Isotopia » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:03 pm

Just got an e-mail from someone who got popped. He's from the SF bay area and is wondering if there's anyone who knows a savvy lawyer he can contact to see about going to trial. Any help appreciated. Contact me via email please.
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Postby ubu » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:09 pm

just what the hell are you getting bent out of shape for precip?

no one in our out of their right mind is going to lecture a cop about anything. it would be a pure waste of time. if you think your rights have been violated, you can save that for the judge. i don't know where the hell you got the idea that anyone tried to lecture any cop on the playa.

Fact is, LEOs break proper procedure all the time, in the act of enforcing laws, victimless or otherwise. In fact, last year the Washoe or Pershing county LEOs were sited for illegal search and siezure and the whole lot of tickets issued to "fucking stoners" was thrown out by the local court and people's monies returned to them, including those who were in fact smoking in public places.

If you don't like this thread or find it boring or whiny, then just move on friend, there is as much discussion board real estate as there is playa real estate for you to spread your vitriol. You are welcome, here as well, to vent as much spleen as you choose. be my guest.

There is a reason, believe it or not, why use and possession drug crimes are called victimless and why violent crimes such as assault are more serious. you may or may not condone vigilante justice assault, but that is a crime and a crime that does require the intervention of police officers to ensure safety. use and possession of drugs do not and their enforcement is left to the discretion of a peace officer.

of course they are still crimes, duh! might the laws be changed? yes, of course. we tried in NV to do just that. short of changing the laws, might LEOs be encouraged to relax enforcement of victimless crimes and focus on quelling violence and aiding in rescue?
I think so.

YMMV.

Further precip. Noone, least of all I, said they were wronged by drug laws, or asked for your boundless compassion to rain down on them like flowers from the prajnaparamitra sutra. I alluded to the fact that the peac officers in question used improper procedure. It is my opinion and my lawyers opinion that they did. Did I tell the cops that? duh. hell no!
I would take it to court if it were worth the time and effort which it is not.
I have no idea what kind of bug you have up your ass, but you seem to read into other's posts what you want to find there. fine with me. go for it.


perhaps you need a drink, friend, if that is your drug of choice? or perhaps you need some sleep....
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Postby TestesInSac » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:33 pm

Funny, I didn't have a single run-in with LEO's, nor did anyone in my camp. In fact, many in my camp wondered aloud whether there were fewer this year than last.

My sense is that if you want to partake, and do so with a modicum of common sense, you should be pretty safe. I also notice that many of the true stoners I know seem to seriously lack common sense.
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Postby PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:37 pm

casnimot wrote:many of the true stoners I know seem to seriously lack common sense.


Duuude, YOU try having common sense when you're, like, totally stoned. Dude.
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Postby ubu » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:49 pm

this is from the guy who applauded vigilante assault! really rich pj!
doesn't look like you can think straight with or without marijuana.

this has been a interesting anthropological experiment. as someone who does not even drink coffee or a drop of alcohol, let alone "illegal" drugs, I'm fascinated to see the reaction of folks to a questioning about procedure and enforcement on the playa in regards to victimless crime. a priori, it's assumed that I'm a "stoner", that I'm a whiner, that I want the sympathy of blinking avatars in a psuedo community!

in reality, i was only curious about others experiences and about the legal consequences for a few friends. if i can be of help to any of you that did get popped and need to be pointed to an attorney, that would make this exercise useful.
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:05 pm

ubu wrote:this is from the guy who applauded vigilante assault! really rich pj!
doesn't look like you can think straight with or without marijuana.


Is this a man that you would want to have on drugs...?

Image

I don't think so...
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Postby TestesInSac » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:09 pm

Awww, there's that cute little wheel gun again! Isn't it adorable?
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:11 pm

He won't fire my shotgun again, for some strange reason...
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Postby s5 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:58 pm

PJ wrote:I wonder if it's even worth mentioning that one way to have no concerns about cops at Burning Man is to not do anything illegal?


the new mantra of the police state:

"if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"

just repeat this 3 times before bed every night, and you'll wake up a good, pure citizen of our Great Country.
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Postby s5 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:06 pm

looks like it's time to pass around the ACLU bust card again:

http://archive.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html

read it, print it out, keep it on you at all times, no matter what kind of activities you engage in. your rights are precious, and there's no reason to surrender them just because someone in a uniform says you should.
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