300 watts bullshit

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Postby DeafGuy » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:12 pm

Stuart-it's hard to know how to respond to your post. Sounds like the org did not put your camp where loud sound works were to go but you decided to be a loud sound work anyway? I can see how on the Esplanade a camp might direct most of their musical energy towards the uninhabited middle?

While it appears the "rules" were not really enforced, they are pretty clear regarding how much power you can run if you are not in a designated loud area. I assume you were running much more than 300 watts and were not in such an area?

I guess when it comes to how loud and how long/late it just comes down to being a decent person. The 2 rave camps that surrounded us were nice guys but being ultra-loud was much more important to them than being good neighbors or their affect on surrounding camps. When confronted with the fact that our camp's sound could no longer be heard, that one could not even have a conversation within our camp and (since they were playing all night long) even sleeping in our camp was next to impossible they said EXACTLY what you just said..."the org placed us here".

I have no insight whatsoever into whether the "org" knew what those camps were going to do or not. Hence I don't know whether the org made a mistake or the camp fooled them. The rules are really clear though.

I doubt many burners want to run around enforcing rules. But since the most logical discussions yielded nothing in terms of compromise, I'm not sure what else could have been done.

If you read most of the comments above, I think you will see that everyone thinks there is room for loud camps but there is no room for bad neighbors.
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Re: my experience

Postby Mr. Mellow » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:12 pm

cowgirl wrote:i had an event which required music and had a measley 170 watts. i asked them repeatedly to turn their music down during this time.

'you gotta talk to the dj' was what i was told. they turned it down bit and then turned it BACK UP during my class.

frequently they had less than 5 people lingering around the camp. most likely just their own crew.

and they didn't speak to their neighbors or openly engage with anyone not a part of their scene all week.

**yeah this shit bothers me... but its about being a good fucking neighbor moreso than enforcing rules and regulations.**


Ditto here, almost an exactly similair position, except we were trying to have an acoustic muscians jam performance that was bluntly rendered nil several times over by the thundering bass.
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Rave Camps =

Postby nocturnal_steve » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:46 pm

Loud obnoxious sound camps other than the ones at designated LS sound area's are equal to ......"Look at and listen to me. I am KOOL and powerful 'cause I can play/distort pre- recorded music, and you have to listen to/can't avoid me! " Its like being an exhibitionist, only if someone doesn't want to look or isn't interested you grab their chins, turn their heads and MAKE them look !
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Postby Major Roosevelt » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:04 am

The question is, is anyone at the Burning Man organization listening? Maybe they got their eardrums blown out.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:18 am

Spectabillis posted elsewhere that the ORG doesn't look at this board as much as people might expect. My hunch? The answer to your question is NO.
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Postby stuart » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:22 am

Look at and listen to me. I am KOOL and powerful 'cause I can play/distort pre- recorded music, and you have to listen to/can't avoid me! "


actually, our camp had a live performance by a band every night that had custom built most of their instrumentation to function both as sculpture and playable pieces. When they played it was loud. The org knew what we were about.

I'd like to address a common image floated by those in opposition to 'distorted* pre-recorded music' apparently being enjoyed by noone. I have been invovled in/run esplanade camps with music for the last three years and have observed a very interesting phenomenon WRT the amount of folks patronizing/dancing at such camps. The population size is very dynamic. That is, it can fluctuate quite wildly within the course of an hour. I have seen population, during DJ sets, in my camp go from 20 to 200 to 100 to 5 to 0 to 200 all within the course of an hour and a half set. It bugs the shit out of the DJs but is utterly out of their control. It's just the dynamic of the population. We mitigate this slightly by having large visual art installations in camp as well. With so much to do and people so distracted camps with dance music can not be expected to function like a dance club in the real world and maintain a relatively steady population. If I shut down my music every time the floor dwindled to 5-10 folks I would be denying the opportunity for the 2-300 folks to patronize the joint in the next 20 minutes. You keep on keeping on knowing the place will be jumping when the next big group of folks who likes what you have to offer strolls by. You shut down when you have a gut feeling that folks just aren't cruising around the playa looking for that kind of fun anymore. This can be at 2 a.m. or 8 a.m..


*due to cutting edge computer monitoring and control of the amplification on a channel by channel basis we managed to avoid the crunchies.
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Postby mo_corleone » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:17 pm

DeafGuy wrote: something I should have mentioned was that BEFORE WHINING TO BRR we did go to the primary offending camp and discuss the situation with their "leader" and "DJ". We explained that since they were not in the designated "ear blowing" areas they had to abide by the 300 watt rule (despite packing in 10 times that capability). They were very, very polite (which frankly suprised me) but said "dude, blame the BM placement....we should've been out by the loud camps and they put us here..." They flatly refused to turn their knobs one bit.


this sounds like a nearly identical story that i can imagine one of our neighbors telling. i can understand working with adjacent camps, compromising, and all that, but i have to agree with the loud people that the BM placement for many camps was grossly inappropriate.

this is the first year out of about 8 that our camp bothered registering. boy did we learn our lesson: never again. we stated quite clearly on our application that we were going to be loud and have DJs, amplified live performances, and parties. we explained our speaker setup. i think somewhere while jumping through one of the many placement hoops we mentioned our music would "make your ears bleed".

does this sound like a nice, quiet camp to you? i hope not, because we never intended to be and we outlined as much in our application. yet we still were placed next to a guy who, according to him, specifically said on his application that he didn't want to be near any loud sound.

if the org is going to insist we register almost everything we touch (camps, art installations, vehicles, etc.) and then make the registration process so lengthy, the least they could do is actually read our applications.

i opened this thread because i agree that 300 watts is bullshit. anyone's car stereo at my camp could have pumped out sound exceeding that level. it's an arbitrary rule that's only enforced when people bitch, and even then the org has no way of measuring it. we asked. we said "show us what 300 watts sounds like and we'll set our levels accordingly". they could not. and then, after our "arbitration" with the placement team and offended neighbor, we were actually told we had to turn our music off entirely by 1:00am every night. at one point a ranger even told us we were on the "quiet side" (south side of the playa/3:00 side) even though this very website has said for years that there is no such thing.

to be clear, none of us were making attempts to be "kool" or "powerful". what we were doing is trying to salvage a DJ lineup that had been months in the making and included performers from various countries. one of our camp's focuses is music, and we made this clear in our application. dismantling several of our planned events over a 300 watt rule that is selectively enforced is pretty harsh, particularly when the org was informed ahead of time that we planned to bring the noise.
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Postby mo_corleone » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:40 pm

DeafGuy wrote:While it appears the "rules" were not really enforced, they are pretty clear regarding how much power you can run if you are not in a designated loud area. I assume you were running much more than 300 watts and were not in such an area?


i'd like to address this "designated loud area" bit as well. the areas you are likely referring to are the loud sound zones at and around the ends of 2:00 and 10:00, and yes, those are the official regions for loud sound. however, i'm pretty sure the only places you can safely expect a near-silent burning man experience are hushville and walk-in camping. everything else is gray area. to be clear, the gray area between a 300-watt boombox and the earth-shattering, shake-your-pubic-hair-from-their-follicles large scale sound at 2:00 and 10:00 is a very large gray area indeed. most mid-range sound systems, from 301 watts on up, would never survive in the "designated loud area". this is probably how they end up scattered throughout the burbs.

burning man is a loud place. that's not to say that your complaints aren't valid, but i honesly think lovers of quiet should be more realistic about the level of noise they're likely to encounter on the playa. citing the official 300-watt rule in an effort to control even the most basic of sound systems out there will probably continue to disappoint you. it's kind of like insisting that there are no drugs allowed or citing nevada's public nudity laws. technically you're correct, but that fact is not likely to yield results.
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Postby DeafGuy » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:52 pm

mo_corleone wrote:burning man is a loud place. that's not to say that your complaints aren't valid...


If your camp shut their music off at 1am, then its neither of the camps I started the thread discussing. As you can see from the many replies, many burners and a number of theme camps had the same problem we did....and clearly are spread out across BRC.

You may be confusing the thread of complaints as an overall "there's too much noise" complaint and they are clearly not.

Our camp was assembled Saturday/Sunday/Monday. The 2 rave camps setup Monday onward. They started really cranking Wednesday with a plan to play "dusk to dawn" Thu/Fri/Sat. Moving a major theme camp was never considered.

Once either or both of these camps (and clearly many other loud camps) realized that they were drowning out their neighbors something should have happened. Since the "org" placed them they believed that they had a right to play at "ear bleed" levels. Since the "org's" rule regarding 300 watts (BS or not) are clearly stated, this is a built in conflict.

While the 300 watt rule might be arbitrary, I feel certain that solutions such as ear plugs and simply reducing the volume so that neighboring camps weren't shaking would have resolved the issue....though the ravers/audience may not have been as happy.

Bottom line is that the "rave" camps should have "suffered" either turning down a bit or shutting off....the result should not have been that the surrounding theme camps and campers should have had so much of the end of the week ruined. Sorry....
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if there are to be rules...

Postby jevfro » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:18 pm

The rules should make sense. The pressence of these rules is one reason I'm probably not coming back to brc next year. If I wanted to be policed, enforced and threatened I'd just stay home where it happens everyday. I thought this was part of the reason ppl travel ump-teen thousand miles into the middle of the desert. Freedom, and a society that solves it's own problems, talking it out is usually going to work. Our neighbor who complained told me that after talking to some of our DJs he began to understand that DJs (real DJs atleast) dont just play music they mix and sculpt it in real time for an audiance.

But if you really think it is too loud cut the cord, pull the fuse, steal the genny... A good sound camp will repair, replace, and electrify the genny.

The least the org could do is make the rule mean something like: Xdb@Yfeet from the camp. 300W means nothing... I have a 150W guitar amp that would drive anyone nuts if I played it full volume.

DJ's and live musicans have as much of a right to express themselves through their art as anyone else who comes to burningman. Even if they are playing at 3AM. It's one week out of 52. you can go without a li'l sleep no?
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Postby Ranger Genius » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:08 pm

DVD wrote: We could make a whole new 'area' like Husville but call it the 'Suburbs' or something similarly icky.


Some of the members of HV have actually been talking about proposing something similar to this for next year. A Generator-Free Zone, or Gee Eff Zed. Two of the largest villages (HV and the AEZ) are already creating such a zone by themselves, but that doesn't do much for those who want to camp in open camping, but not have some bigass sound system or RV plonking right down next to them. Like-minded theme camps and villages could be placed in the area, and allow campers who are interested in sustainable energy sources, or just a quieter place to camp, to join them. It's not like it would be an enforcement nightmare, either. It would be as easy as walk-in. Self-policing, for the most part.

Is there anyone else who would be interested in seeing something like this?
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Postby spectabillis » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:45 am

Ranger Genius wrote:Is there anyone else who would be interested in seeing something like this?


yep
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Postby Davoid » Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:54 am

I've never camped outside of the walk-in zone, simply to increase my odds of having escape when I want it, though I also enjoy the view. My persistent curiosity about downtown living is always dampened by threads like these. And I'm a guy who enjoys some thumpa-thumpa! You know, if it's, like, quality.

Yes, Ranger Genius, I for one am all for exploring new zones of quietude. Maybe I just need to sniff around those AEZ and HV types and say hi regardless.

By the by, don't outlaw roving artcars on the outer streets. I like those transient reminders of chaos. They serve as little tugs at my sleeve when I'm loitering at camp. Not that the general screams don't serve in that capacity.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:56 am

Ok, this outta start some serious flak coming my way but I'd like to see the 300 watts limit or at least some minor restrictions enforced on the large scale sound camps that get placed at the 10:00 and 2:00 positions. I'm riding my muffled but still basically noisy gas powered scooter clear out to the trash fence and I'm at the far North point. With my engine running I can clearly hear the thump, thump, thump of those camps. Now I love good dance music, I play the stuff every single day. But damn, do you need that much power and does the sound need to travel that far?

Sol System was out there one year with a surround sound system that while having the best sound I've ever heard on the playa before or since, also seemed to do a nice job of cancelling the sound out as it tried to travel very far. Or at least that was my perception of it. It's too bad other camps couldn't figure out a loudspeaker arrangement that might cancel or at least reduce the volume going outside the venue. In any event I'm beginning to think a power reduction or at least a rethink of the large camps is in order. On top of that when I spoke with the Windsurfers clear out past Trego they claim the thump, thump, thump kept them awake. When the sound travels that far from the event site it's a bit much.
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Postby zorro sings » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:10 am

The shame of all this is that with any sort of planning it should not have been a problem for anyone. Everytime I wandered out to the sound art section it seemed like only a few of the camps were creating any sound art at all.One camp only had a boom box.Looked like plenty of space available for dusk to dawn max volume interpretations.
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Postby zorro sings » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:15 am

A further aside-Have felt for a long time that the theme camp registration deadline should be moved up a couple of months.If you don't have enough together to register by May than you have problems already.This would give everyone involved more time to get placement issues reviewed,maps laid,WWW guide done earlier, etc etc
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Postby dj chai » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:46 am

some of you people are asking for more red tape and more rules from the burning man org. this perplexes me.

i was camped at one of those "placed" camps last year and had issues with my neighbors, even though by mid-week it was all resolved the tension in the beginning of the week made me feel as though making all this effort, hard work, spending all that money, and traveling that far wasn't worth it anymore. this has never been an issue before and we have never registered before this year. to me, it says the org is not only dis-organized, but depending on someone else to make sure your burning man experience is a good one doesn't work.

what my camp (a moderately loud-ish camp) has decided is we're going to search for like minded camps to join up with. possibly make a village, possible just camp together without registering.

the playa is a large place with room for everyone and their own interpretation of art. if quiet is what you need at burning man then you should re-think where you were camped last year and find a more suitable placement with like-minded neighbors. you can't trust the org to take care of that for you.....obviously. and really we shouldn't have to. we should be self reliant enough to find fellow burners with-in our own community who agree, and band together as neighbors, not vandals.

stealing people's generators and cutting their power cords is vandalism and theft. isn't there enough of that going around without you guys encouraging this type of behavior? also someone mentioned people complaining about a sound camp on the esplanade being too loud. come on people, really! the esplanade is the main street of our event! it's suppossed to be lively with camps open 24/7. i think there would be a lot of dissappointed burners if the esplanade went quiet from 1am-10am.

as someone already mentioned, if you don't like where you were placed because your neigbors are too loud, set up a tent in a quieter zone. be prepaired for this ahead of time, and re-think the placement for next year. it's 1 week out of the year, and did you really come to burning man to sleep it all away?

just my 2 cents.
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hmmm

Postby cowgirl » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:50 am

its not really about quiet vs loud.

its about DROWNING OUT other people's projects and not being considerate. there is room for everyone, and EVERYONE'S sound.

no amount of red tape can make people not be an asshole. this one example of the whole 'community' aspect of burningman failing if people don't respect each other.

consideration of others and working together is key and clearly lacking when it comes to wattage.
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Postby Ron » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:13 am

I'm amazed at the lack of empathy shown in sentiments like, "you can do without some sleep for a week, no?" The equating of freedom with being rude reflects a limited view of the concept, IMHO. You're always free to be an asshole, the question is why would you want to be?

If a neighbor comes and asks one to turn the music down I'm a believer that one has a default obligation to do so. It's one of those, "your right to swing your fist ends where another's nose begins," kind of things, IMHO. That's especially true during the post midnight/early am hours, as far as I can see things. More permanent cities use zoning and noise ordinances to regulate sound, allowing for both parties and sleep, and BRC would probably do well to follow their example.

Noise was more of a problem this year, for me, than in years past. But I'm not talking about generators, RVs, or so on. I'm talking about the earth shaking base being put out at 3am by various camps. (Including my own until I finally managed to take care of the problem.) Next year I may make a mobile art project designed to fling 5 to 10 gallons of water 100 or so yards and hire myself out to bombard the electronics of camps that insist on pumping out the sound at all hours. Hey, it's the burn, read your ticket, I'm free to do that if I want to, right?

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Postby mo_corleone » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:44 am

Ron wrote:Next year I may make a mobile art project designed to fling 5 to 10 gallons of water 100 or so yards and hire myself out to bombard the electronics of camps that insist on pumping out the sound at all hours. Hey, it's the burn, read your ticket, I'm free to do that if I want to, right?


it's amusing to me that a guy who came in here to point out the "lack of empathy" by others ended his post with the above statement.

to help mitigate these problems next year, we're just going to post a giant sign on all four corners of our property during setup: "note: we are going to be loud. often. please choose your camp site appropriately."

maybe the quiet brigade could do something similar in an effort to attract additional lullaby types.
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Postby djmalloc » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:44 pm

There seem to be two issues being argued here.

One is people arguing that neighbouring sound camps should make an effort to equalize their noise levels so as not to drown out the other. This one is tricky.
We are a sound camp with about 5k watts of sound which was silenced this year because of the complaints of a person who wanted quiet. We thought about going to the loud zones but the sound systems there are easily 10 times as loud as ours and we would be drowned out. Would it be fair for me to camp next to the 100k watt sound system of FnF next year and ask them to turn it down so that my 5k watts of sound could be heard? Not really, because they put a *lot* of time and money and energy into getting each of those 100k watts out there and to ask them to play that sound system at the equivalant of 5k watts just wouldn't seem right. They would have wished they had just brought up 5k watts!

I think people should be respectful of other peoples art/music but this goes both ways. They should not unduly try to drown me out, but I should not disallow them from experiencing the full measure of their own sound system.

The other point I have seen raised is that some people believe that sound camps anywhere but in the loud zones should turn their music off if someone asks them to. On the face of it, this seems incredible that people would think this. But then I realised that perhaps they don't fully understand the experience of the people at that sound camp. Let me lay it out in the hopes that it will give you more empathy for sound camp folks.

To put a good sound camp together takes an amazing amount of money, time and energy. You have got to buy generators. You have got to buy sound equipment and lights which are not cheap. You've got to find good musicians and coordinate with them. You've got to haul all this shit up there. You've got to setup your giant dome or shade structure or whatever. And you've got to deal with last minute flaky musicians or broken gear or what not. It is a giant effort!

And then, it's all setup and you get to enjoy the fruits of your yearlong labor of countless hours and thousands of dollars. You are rocking out to your minimal techno, or your ambient noisecore, or your post-pop jug band ensemble or whatever the hell it is you have decided to share with the playa. And it's all working! It all came together and you've got a grin on your face a mile wide. And somebody pops out of their tent and tells you to turn it off. So you gladly shut down the party that you have been working for a year to produce and head out to see what everyone else is up to.

Or do you?

Would *you*?

Or would you maybe say "Dude, this is kind of important to me. Possibly more important that your night of rest. Did you plan for a year for this night of sleep? Did you coordinate with 100s of people to make it happen? Did you spend five thousand dollars on gear to ensure that this night of sleep would be the most kick ass night of sleep you have ever experienced?" It's not that his night of sleep is more important than the artistic climax of the year's worth of effort of my entire camp it's just that...well, maybe it is actually. Either way, I certainly know I am not going to artificially shorten my experience without a good bit of cajoling or at least a handjob or something.

And it's not just at night that this is a problem. A lot of people move to a nocturnal schedule at bman. This year, as I crawled into bed at 6am some electrified folk band from hell decided to start pumping the jams out of a super loud sound system. I went out to look and they were having a freaking blast. Some guy walked by me asking where the Ranger were, saying he was going to shut them down. I told him that was harsh but he didn't listen. I just popped in my earplugs and thought of the good times I'd had that night. While I didn't really sleep, I made up for it later on with a mid afternoon nap when they finally shut up.

I guess my point is, put yourself in the shoes of the people you are trying to quiet. Be aware that this means a lot to them. Be aware that they have been looking for to *this very minute* for a year and you are asking them to stop that which they have been so yearning for the other 360 days of the year.

If you make it clear to them that you understand how important this is to them, maybe they will listen. But if you come over and say "turn off this crappy shit I am trying to sleep" don't be suprised if they are less than agreeable.

Oh, and to the fellow who thought that sound should be regulated in the loud zones, I think this is a noble goal. I say you try to make this one happen. And once you're done, grab a lance because there are a number of windmills on the playa that seriously need a tilting ;)
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Postby EB » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:00 pm

djmalloc,

In a nutshell, it doesn't matter how much time, money and effort you put into your sound camp. If it's not in the "loud" zone and it's over 300 watts, you have to turn it down.

If you want to be louder, move into the loud zone. Go that extra mile of planning. Maybe that guy who's night of sleep doesn't mean much to you is driving 12 hours the next day. Maybe the earplugs he brought isn't cutting it.

The "This is Burning Man, sleep when you're dead" argument is soft. Rules are rules. And I think MOST burners give sound camps the benefit of the doubt before approaching to have the sound turned down. We ALL travel and make significant sacrifices to make it out to the desert. I don't see that fitting the profile of a "cranky, Mr. Wilson-type" who demands all the fun to stop -- those types don't make it out to the playa.

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Postby DeafGuy » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:11 pm

EB wrote:djmalloc,

In a nutshell, it doesn't matter how much time, money and effort you put into your sound camp. If it's not in the "loud" zone and it's over 300 watts, you have to turn it down..........
EB


Amen!

I started this thread a few days after getting back from BRC. It really had me bugged. I have felt heartened not only by the responses of other folks who had similar experiencs personally and/or as a camp but also am glad some representatives of the "we're loud, sorry" guys responded as well....I do appreciate it!!

I don't think anyone has summarized the long and the short of it better. If you are going to be a thunderingly loud camp, plan on being in the area designated for such camps. Don't allow a beauracratic screwup on the part of the org to force you to be a jerk. I just find it so hard to accept that anyone would argue "BM knew we were loud so we have the right to drown out your camp, neighbor".
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just be fair

Postby cowgirl » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:23 pm

if you are playing your music ALL DAY EVERY DAY and NIGHT... give others a chance for their one or two hours. you'll fucking live.
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just be fair

Postby cowgirl » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:24 pm

if you are playing your music ALL DAY EVERY DAY and NIGHT... give others a chance for their one or two hours. you'll fucking live.

i'm speaking about specific people here and am not going to name their camp.
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Postby Mr. Mellow » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:35 pm

EB wrote:In a nutshell, it doesn't matter how much time, money and effort you put into your sound camp. If it's not in the "loud" zone and it's over 300 watts, you have to turn it down.


For others of us, it really isn't that we mind a misplaced sound camp most of the time. It's that these misplaced sound camps, in my experience, wouldn't even stop for two hours once during the entire BM event for an acoustic music event, even after they said they would.

I keep hearing the same story everywhere I go, the sound camp agrees to accommodate someone else's much quieter sound project that was properly placed in the first place, they quiet down for fifteen minutes, and then in the middle of the event destroy it by blasting full bore and refusing to stop.

They're misplaced, inconsiderate, and use the org's placement as an excuse for being rude. As I read the BMORG's report for the previous years, they say that there are "no problems." How completely out of touch can they be?
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:49 pm

We are wipping a dead thred horse here. Those that move into the burbs wth there trash loud sound are a bunch of fuckwits. They are there just to annoy others and build there small egos. In 03 two moved into the burbs. About three blocks apart.. Then went to sound war. Some rather large locals asked one to tone theres down. The other kept it up. About the third day two uniformed cops busted the camp. Never heard a peep after that. Funny how things work out.
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Postby Ron » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:51 pm

Why yes, in fact, I did spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to create a theme camp experience. Just short of $7,000 and 500 person hours. I kept track of both. Furthermore my playa offering, the big black pyramid floored with live grass, is just about unique in BRC. Unlike your thumpy thumpy noise maker that's a dime a dozen, no matter how much you spent on it. Furthermore I did have to coordinate with dozens of people, four different commercial vendors, and had to haul about 10,000 pounds of sod (alone) off the playa when we were done. I see your "I worked hard for this," argument with one of my own, and think it's irrelevant anyway. No matter how hard you've worked to produce yet another thumpy thumpy in BRC you don't have the right to ruin someone else's burn with it, IMHO.

As for the amusement provided by the water cannon point, it it's a step to understanding I'll take it. Those who insist on making loud noise into the a.m. in the face of requests not to are displaying the same insensitivity needed to actually launch water onto someone's expensive electronics. But the noise makers justify their attitudes with platitudes about "freedom," and "this is the burn," and I wonder if they'd feel the same if those words were parroted back at them after someone dunked their tables?

Again, you can be an asshole and blast out your neighbors, but why would you want to? Given the opportunity to craft a culture from the nothingness of the playa I'm always a bit amazed when folk choose to build a collection of rudeness.

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Re: just be fair

Postby djmalloc » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:04 pm

What I love about BurningMan the most is the fact that it means something different to everybody.

Like for instance, some folks love the chance to follow rules laid out by an arbitrary governing body:
EB wrote:Rules are rules.

And boy are they fun to obey without questioning! Fuck talking about things, let's ask Larry Harvey what he thinks we should do!

Yet others revel in the chance to destroy private property:
Ron wrote:I wonder if they'd feel the same if those words were parroted back at them after someone dunked their tables?
EB

There's nothing that builds community like destroying the property of others! But why stop there, wouldn't physical violence be even more fun?

It's this wild and divergent set of interests that makes BurningMan such an amazing place to me. And it's only gotten better over the years.

I remember back in the day when everybody was all the same and was only interested in creating a community where people could live together without blind obeyance to arbitrary laws and where the threat of theft, violence or property destruction was nowhere to be found. Boy were those some boring years!

Thanks to all those who are bringing some much needed variance to BurningMan. The rainbow of diversity this year was beautiful, like the colors on the tail of some demented assfuck of a peacock.

Oh, and thanks for disparaging my art installation without even seeing it Ron. That kind of closed minded and aggressive mindset is also something that's been sorely lacking in previous years. Seems like you're making up for that in spades!
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300 watts bullshit

Postby retropsycho » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:51 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Spectabillis posted elsewhere that the ORG doesn't look at this board as much as people might expect. My hunch? The answer to your question is NO.


The answer is YES, though the tone on this board can drive me away. The Theme Camp Placement project manager is lurking about. We are looking for and finding feedback on the new city design.

Did you like more unreserved space close to the Esplanade held back till Monday midnight? What about the 4:30 and 8:30 zone reaching Theme Camps deep into the body of BRC?

Deaf Guy, I need the name of the camp that played too loud, please.

I camped in non-reserved theme camp area, across 3:30 from Omar's Otter Oasis. A dome across the street had poor live guitar playing with an audence of zero, followed by a couple days of video (and loud audio) of 911 conspiracy "theories". Talk about bumming your mellow!

I'm thinking Hushville or walk in camping in 2006.
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