Why did the DMV reject our couch?

Exchange camp ideas, find places to perform, announce your events, etc.

Postby Badger » Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:15 pm

Was up until 12:30 last night looking over Jewelz's(?) shoulder and watching her as she went through the applications (several hundred remain). Haveto say I was impressed. There's some great stuff - some FANTASTIC stuff that's getting approved. Was also cringing at the number of people submitting info based solely on scribblings and generally vague descriptions.
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Postby Steven bradford » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:52 am

Several Hundred?

Yikes.

I'm glad there are so many rejections then.
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Lmao

Postby dj big E » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:51 am

What kind of a motorized couch doesn't have a bullhorn allready. I would have rejected it to wtf. LMAO
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Postby JezebelinHell » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:35 pm

Our artcar got daytime/nighttime approval, and is rather cool looking. So far as participation goes, the only time I used our MV last year was when my buddies showed up Thursday (due to work restrictions) and wanted to check out all the art installations all over the playa. We gave them a tour, and gave rides to all sorts of people we picked up along the way. It was fun, and it kept our group together (which was kinda cool since we all have a tendency to wander off if we're on foot/bike).

I was a big fan of the Double Decker bus last year. Most interactive MV I've seen so far. I hope it was able to get approval again this year. I don't remember who was running it, but they were some of the nicest people I met all week.
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Postby mamagrrl » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:41 am

jaygo wrote: ...you are really saying that this vehicle, whose very *nature* is something that you would never see outside the playa, is insufficiently decorated?


I just wanted to point out that in fact, some folks DO see motorized couches outside the playa. My kids elementary school had a motorized couch for several years at their fair. It showed up 7 or 8 years ago for the first time. It sat four or five and had a side table with a light that worked. There was also a matching motorized ottoman which a rider could work independently of the sofa. The thing was red velvet. They later went on to motorize a Lazyboy chair. After a few years, the school 'retired' the couch and etc from the fair because it was 'done'. An elementary school, man.

Shoot, if I remember correctly, there was a motorized chair in the local Fourth of July parade.

Maybe you should motorize a toilet or something a little more outre'? Take it as a challenge.

No offense intended, just an awareness call. After all, I haven't motorized anything in my entire life! That other folks can and do, is cool.
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Postby Steven bradford » Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:42 am

The mobile commode's been done before. Certainly not over done though.

Which points up an essential feature of a mutant vehicle. It should be impractical, though safe.
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Postby Steven bradford » Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:44 am

Couldn't find the toilet, but here's the carpet http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi? ... y=art_cars
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i feel your pain... and I will have a bull horn as well.

Postby Sunflowergrrrl » Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:03 pm

I have a good idea of how you feel about not being approved as a mutant vehicle. I think your motorized couch is out of the ordinary,...artist... I think that seeing a couch float on the playa does provide me artistic visual different from everyday 'normal' art.

I have tried to look at all sides of this,..and from all angles.
I understand that to be driving on the playa a mutant vehicle should be: contributing significantly to the community, must be dramatically adding to the art, must be safe for passengers and pedestrians... etc.

I am having a hard time with the review process because I too received a vague letter as to why our vehicle wasnt approved. If the letter wasnt so vague I might be able to make adjustments/alterations to my vehicle so that next year it will be approved... or decide to not apply as to not waste the "HOTTIES" time.- I am still trying to figure it out, It has been dramatically altered, has no previous history of playa violations (as this is the first year for our art), contributes in many ways to the sense of community and interaction, has room (and intention) of being used as conduit to bring people /discussions/onemindedness together - with space for ten to fifteen burners to catch a ride, exchange a thought, paint their own (blacklight) planet to hang in the art car, sing kareoke..and more. I have come up with three possible reasons why it was not even invited to be considered on site (although its going anyway because its our transportation to the event)

1) They didnt take the time to match up the mailed in photos/diagrams/explaination with the completed online application- and said NOPE, because it was too time consuming to do so.
2) Because the outside of the vehicle looked like a simple rocket (although dramatically lit up with rope lighting/fog machine/strobe effects) and not something a completely different shape from the rectangle shape an rv is in was not enough, even with the mindblowing massive alteration and unbelievable airbrush/blacklight art "Universe" on the inside.
3) They were more overwhelmed with applications than they thouight they would be and didnt give each mutant vehicle the time and consideration that they all deserve.

our vehicle is safe. Our drivers are safe and sober, might I add. it is an incredible space to interact with fellow burners.... and as such,.. we will be parked around 6:30 and saturn -uranus - jupiter. and although the hotties didnt approve us,...you will approve.. and have your mind blown.... and hopefully come share your bm experience with us.... we would like to share ours... we would like to contribute to the sense of community... we would like to interact in a safe space,... that we know that we can provide. come look for us. You will see us... with all the lights... from over a mile a way,...im sure.
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Postby AntiM » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:19 pm

I'm no hottie and I can guess why you weren't approved. You have made an exquisite and wonderful art project, no doubt about that. It doesn't sound like you have created a mutant vehicle at all, art car perhaps, but that's not what's getting licensed. The base vehicle is street legal enough to transport you to BRC, so it doesn't sound mutated, it sounds decorated. IMHO naturally, I haven't seen it or your plans.

(although its going anyway because its our transportation to the event)

and

2) ... and not something a completely different shape from the rectangle shape an rv is in was not enough, even with the mindblowing massive alteration and unbelievable airbrush/blacklight art "Universe" on the inside.


There's a reason I have an art bike and not a mutant vehicle! I do hope to find your little universe and create a planet of my own ...
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Postby Sunflowergrrrl » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:26 pm

I am open minded enough to consider that as a possiblity... and I am really trying to keep my eye on my goal-to share experience with other burners, but I cant say that I wont be disappointed if I do see golf carts wired with EL driving around... for personal use, not contributing to the community in the way that a motorize vehicle on the playa should (according to the Mutant Vehicle standards).

in any case,...come by, we would love to meet you and have you in our universe.
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Postby AntiM » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:52 pm

And if you do see a golf cart, don't jump to conclusions. There are some there which are used by disabled burners or staff. It isn't things like the golf carts that get to me, it is the mini motorcycles and go-carts, or the people who drive up to the burn in their SUVs. I saw that twice two years ago.

My bike is Heads in the Clouds. Four wheeled bike, two boat seats, cloudbank canopy with 13 painted heads, twinkly lights, blacklights, and rope lights, a misting system, plus a treasure chest on the back deck to haul our cooler. We can give one or two small people short rides. Great for ice runs!
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Postby stuart » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:53 pm

I think a lot of folks are going to find themselves rejected at the 11th hour. I think most of those folks have a legitimate gripe. I would love to see a camp of missfit, i.e., un-licensed art cars on the playa. Camp Impound Lot if you will.
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Postby actiongrl » Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:05 pm

I know this was five pages ago, but

if i see one cigarette-butt-pitching first camper driving around a fucking golf cart with a string of beads on it this year



Fine. I'll put on some freaking blinky wire this time, just as soon as I find two spare minutes between meetings and handling crises...maybe I can do it while you're enjoying another leisurely 2 PM bacon breakfast with all your favorite playa friends. Blah blah blah...you know what I have to say about that. Don't mean to sound antagonistic, J., but is there anything keeping you from understanding that we're not there just enjoying the event, the way you are? I work really hard out there, and yes, I use a golf cart to do it. And no, last year I never got around to putting on my decorations. Everyone else had deco'd theirs, for the most part.

Sigh.

But what I really wanted to say is: if you actually saw anyone from First Camp throwing a cigarette butt on the playa, I will eat Larry's hat.
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Re: i feel your pain... and I will have a bull horn as well.

Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:11 pm

So many people were griping about the number of half-ass so-called "art cars" running around in the past that the DMV, by popular demand, finally did something about it. Now they're catching hell about that.
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Postby simcoe » Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:21 pm

I, for one, welcome our new auto-rejecting overlords.

But seriously, as a bike chick I sincerely appreciate that there will be fewer autos and golf carts cruising on the playa this year. Less dust, less noise, less danger.

I know there will be those whose quirky creations are unfairly rejected, but I'm sure that, once the trend of "cheater" art cars has been discouraged, in future years the DMV will again become more lenient in their judgment of artistic merit.

In the meantime, it's my hope this will encourage more people to create art bikes. Two wheels good -- human power!

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Postby Badger » Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:54 pm

if i see one cigarette-butt-pitching first camper driving around a fucking golf cart with a string of beads on it this year


Actiongirl makes a good point about a reply that I answered in the affirmative to. I should have read the post a second time but, well, with no edit function all of this is moot.

There have been complaints in the past about the marginal attempts to decorate carts that are used by the project folks. Personally, I htink it'd be best to just leave the damn things undecorated. Even the half-assed attmempt to decorate takes away time and resources to get the City ready to function.

AG, *is* is speaking WORD when she makes her points. For a good many folks its not about just hopping in and sight seeing the city. Except for the occasional touring that takes place, I'd say anytime you see a someone driving about - sometimes dusting - its because there's another fire to put out, issue to handle, camp to get placed, blah, blah, blah....

Its pretty easy (and often tempting) to toss stones from the sidelines when you don't have all the facts or your perceptions are clouded with some level of negativity (vehicle rejection for instance) but it might be nice to at least consider that sometimes there's a story behind the picture one paints based soley on their perceptions.
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Postby actiongrl » Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:56 pm

it's worth noting that there's a plan afoot to decorate the senior staff carts as rockets...i opted to do my own thang, but that's just me.
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pedal power

Postby bdongray » Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:06 pm

simcoe wrote:In the meantime, it's my hope this will encourage more people to create art bikes. Two wheels good -- human power!


And last year I did. And was proud:
Image

Each member of our camp (4 of us) had one, so cycling around together in the open playa looked great.

Here's what inside:
Image

Unfortunately, pedal power does not have the power of an engine. I found a new respect for the wind, even a light breeze has <b>significant</b> power, and would stop us in our tracks! We had to generally cycle around without the coverings. :(
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:57 pm

Before I built some powered mutant vehicles I did some pedal-powered ones too, and it did suck trying to get them anywhere. Bikes need to be super-light and have little surface area, both challenges to making a wild mutant thing,
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Postby Steven bradford » Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:22 pm

Those are beautiful PyraBikes!!!
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Postby cookie » Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:21 am

I find it hard to learn that so many burners have become so used to what happens at Burning Man on the playa that their senses have been dulled as to what is art.

Art has to be mind boggling, mind blowing, amazing, fantastic. wonderful...blah blah blah, plus it has to be obvious that an enourmous amount of time and money went into making it before a piece of art gets any respect or is judged worthy.

We need to realize that everyone that attends Burning Man is not creatively inclined on an equal plane. Some art will obviously be judged as better, but that doesn't make lesser art - NOT ART. By being such snobs, we're not allowing less creatively inclined people to participate.

Why do we go to Burning Man? Many reasons, but one of them is to be entertained. What entertains one person (a motorized couch for example)might not entertain another. However, I feel that the other person should be open minded enough to realize that some people find the motorized couch stimulating and entertaining.

Some people might be entertained by building and then driving a motorized art car around the playa - while catching gazes and looks of awe and laughter from others.

Last year on Sunday morning, I wore a suit and tie around my camp area and walked around to all the neighbors passing out a phony business card and reminding people to get to work on time on Tuesday. I got a lot of dazed looks and laughter from a lot of people. However, I was wearing a suit and tie that you'd see on any street in any city in America. Was what I was doing not artistic and entertaining just because I was wearing a common suit and tie?

Too many people are seeing Burning Man art in only one dimension - Visual.

I feel that there are visual, audible, tactile, olfactory, and mental art forms.

Potentially, this couch is not particularly visual, but more mental.

I personally don't feel that just because the creator of the motorized couch *might* have wanted to use it just to get around should be a reason for rejection or mockery. Who out there hasn't wanted to ride in an art car? A person definitely gets to see much more of the city while riding on an art car, particularly way out on the playa that you might not, especially if they are disabled. There is no way one can see all of Burning Man on foot.

Someone who gets together all the logistics to acquire a vehicle, transport it out to BRC, and makes an effort to modify it - is obviously making an effort to be interactive with the city.

All that being said, I understand that there were problems last year. I, for example, had my art car stolen. Additionally, I saw several instances of larger art cars which had tons of people on them that nearly ran over me, my art car, or a pedestrian. The only way to cure problems is to enforce parameters, and those BM Staff, regardless of how good they are, can't guess it right the first time every time.

The problem is that I find it hard to imagine any of these larger art vehicles, who were so reckless, being rejected.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:20 am

cookie wrote:I personally don't feel that just because the creator of the motorized couch *might* have wanted to use it just to get around should be a reason for rejection or mockery.

The problem is that I find it hard to imagine any of these larger art vehicles, who were so reckless, being rejected.


Two of the largest and most famous, La Contessa and the Shark, have been denied due to behaviour issues.

Motorized couches will be permitted. The couch in question just doesn't have the surreal majic floating couch look.
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Postby Sunflowergrrrl » Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:43 am

stuart wrote:I think a lot of folks are going to find themselves rejected at the 11th hour. I think most of those folks have a legitimate gripe. I would love to see a camp of missfit, i.e., un-licensed art cars on the playa. Camp Impound Lot if you will.


Camp Impound Lot,..interesting idea... yep,.. i would love for our vehicle to be apart of the "rejects camp"... that would crack me up.
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Postby Isotopia » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:13 am

Camp Impound Lot,..interesting idea... yep,.. i would love for our vehicle to be apart of the "rejects camp"... that would crack me up.


Already done. Will be referred to as 'Long Term Parking' and it'll be where people leave their vehicles that aren't pre-approved. The vehicle will NOT get beyond the gate of Black Rock City. That is to say that unless people elect to take their rejected/unapproved vehicle back from whence it came that it will sit unguarded in a defined area that is OUTSIDE of the fenced area that defines the city.
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Postby stuart » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:16 am

Its pretty easy (and often tempting) to toss stones from the sidelines when you don't have all the facts or your perceptions are clouded with some level of negativity (vehicle rejection for instance) but it might be nice to at least consider that sometimes there's a story behind the picture one paints based soley on their perceptions.



I think one of the things that makes that stone tossing a little easier is the big target. If the information regarding vehicles, or anything else for that matter, was wrapped in a little less dogma and a little more practicality it might be easier to parse.
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Postby Sunflowergrrrl » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:48 am

<< "Already done. Will be referred to as 'Long Term Parking' and it'll be where people leave their vehicles that aren't pre-approved. The vehicle will NOT get beyond the gate of Black Rock City. That is to say that unless people elect to take their rejected/unapproved vehicle back from whence it came that it will sit unguarded in a defined area that is OUTSIDE of the fenced area that defines the city.">>


Actually, Im not referring to driving it around the city or disobeying any law (BM or otherwise) by thinking about camps or ideas like this. As stated earlier in this thread, our vehicle is our primary form of transportation to the event. As such, we have already been told that it IS welcome INSIDE the city, to be PARKED in our camp. Which we will be happy to comply with. You are more than welcome to come by and enjoy some kareoke...planet creation.. a cool beverage.. share experience.. or just police whether we are really parked. We would love to have you. There is always a chair at our table for you.

Thank you for the information on the 'Long Term Parking' anyway, I appreciate your concern.
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Postby Lark » Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:42 pm

cookie wrote:Last year on Sunday morning, I wore a suit and tie around my camp area and walked around to all the neighbors passing out a phony business card and reminding people to get to work on time on Tuesday. I got a lot of dazed looks and laughter from a lot of people. However, I was wearing a suit and tie that you'd see on any street in any city in America. Was what I was doing not artistic and entertaining just because I was wearing a common suit and tie?


I would say that a common suit and tie on the playa would probably stand out more than anything else. Wish I'd seen it.
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Postby Dork » Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:49 pm

base vehicle is street legal enough to transport you to BRC, so it doesn't sound mutated


My car is street legal, was stated as such on my application, and was approved. Hopefully the on-playa inspection will go smoothly as well.

When you see it I don't think you'll feel it hasn't been mutated! The previous shell of the car is basically gone.

Likewise, it's easy to cut a bunch of safety equipment off an existing car so that it is no longer street legal but still wouldn't get a mutant sticker.
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thanks everyone

Postby jaygo » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:03 am

our couch has been granted a take-a-look-at-dmv, tentative pass.

my whining and profanity, as well as the support of many good people on this board, made a difference. i am thrilled to report that the org is reasonable and city hall can be fought.

a couple of points for closure:

- i have never seen a cigarette butt fall onto the playa from anyone at first camp. i was inappropriately stretching the truth, and andie grace is right. (i have seen some pretty normal looking golf-carts, though. :D )

- the couch as it was last year was under-decorated. in return for the good faith of the DMV, we will be improving its attire before it is taken for final inspection.

- i am sorry about cryptofishist's stalker and threat, and repeat that by no means was my PM intended to threaten. CF, please visit disorient and find me. we'll treat you right.

thank you all for your support and patience in this matter, and to those who were hatin', well, disorient loves you too!
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Golf cart with fur

Postby bdongray » Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:38 am

I was looking through my 2003 photos and even though this golf cart just has fur added I thought it very in-theme, enjoyable to see, especially as the riders were in costume too (either dressed as devils or angels):
Image

I feel this is a good example of why I hope the DMV is not rejecting vehicles which could be classified as golf carts with some fur added.
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