tech––no!!

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby queenrinsky » Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:04 pm

how can i explain it? me and my girls got on the playa, we asked and we recieved... griz-nace wanted hip hop, she asked for it and she received... i needed some jungle tues night, voiced it and that night, i was out at "re" orient rockin out to bad ass jungle, dust all up in my...
simple lessoned learned. the magic on the playa is easy. keep your heart pure, ask and you will recieve yo...
its ALL out there... just go find it. from bands, to djs and drum circles... yum yum...love it all!!!!!!
p.s. celestial temple... will you be around next year? so so much to see and hear...
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MORE JUNGLE!

Postby blarghstint » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:00 pm

ok...no one can tell me there was enough jungle out there this year...or ever! I am currently trying to convince my dj housemate to come and fill a void at BM...we need a pied piper to collect al the jungle rats!!
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Postby dj_john69 » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:14 am

Since 2000, i have seen some of the Worlds biggest and best dj's on the Playa....Oakenfold, Collins, Freeland to name a few. It seems as though everyone is doing a "rave" camp nowadays but only a few are actually worth the time and effort. Much props to the groups that made the effort and spent the time and $$ to do it up right.

~John - Reno
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Postby Jordan 10-E » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:16 am

dj_john69 wrote:Since 2000, i have seen some of the Worlds biggest and best dj's on the Playa....Oakenfold, Collins, Freeland to name a few. It seems as though everyone is doing a "rave" camp nowadays but only a few are actually worth the time and effort. Much props to the groups that made the effort and spent the time and $$ to do it up right.


I agree there is some "competition", but not every group has $10,000 +/- to "do it right". Some camps are admittedly more successful than others, but everyone one deserves credit for their efforts in whatever they do. Is this any different than a large-scale art project vs. a small simple art piece? I don't see how it is. Groups should consider the implications and results of their proposed camp on their own and determine if it is worth it or not to put their resources into it. If it doesn't work out the way they wanted either they will have to morph into something else in the future or find a way to come up with the very large sums of money to do it right according to your criteria. I give props to camps large and small. I have seen even quite large rave camps with great sound not have the huge numbers of people you might consider making it worth it.

Another point while I am on this, I in no way agree that there should be more or less rave camps. At least not by any rule or imposed cap, the process of natural selection will do that business for you. I am not implying that you were advocating an imposed limit, but I have a feeling that a small handful of people reading will respond to this thread with such an idea. Frankly, I get really tired of the jump-on-the-bandwagon put downs I read from some people attending Burning Man about "ravers" (I'd like to know how they can tell the ravers from everyone else). Last time I checked Burning Man was about the ability for all kinds of groups to express themselves at the event. To make stereotypical judgements like "ravers" don't get it, etc... is very hypocritical. In fact, I think people who make such exclusionary comments are the ones that don't "get it'.

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Some people don't understand

Postby thehunt » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:32 am

Some people just think that any electronic dance music that they hear on the playa is "tech-no" but some don't realize that there are like a hundred sub-genres that are really different from your standard house, trance and "raver" music.

There will never be any restrictions on what kinda music people are allowed to play. DJs will play whatever they want, and same with bands.

This will be year six for me with Picasso Camp.
I've seen hella DJs/groups out at Burning Man:
Paul Oakenfold, DJ John Kelley, Lost At Last (twice), and various other not-so-popular groups/DJs.
I agree that popularity doesn't necessarily make someone good, but music on the playa is usually good, and not bad. Who the hell would wanna listen to bad music out there? Not me and not you. If you cannot hang with electronic dance music, then go to some other camp. I think tons of people have a blast dancing out there, and it wouldn't really matter what kind of music is even playing really.

If you feel the groove, stay and dance.
If you don't feel it, there are hundreds of other camps to go to.

I got to play my first "public" DJ set ever, out on the playa in 2003 at Picasso Camp. It was mostly "electronic dance music" but that didn't stop me from throwing in some hip hop and 80's and rock into the set. Thanks for the chance BM, and I agree that everyone should be able to take the chance to perform, whatever style of music they DJ or play.

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Postby dj_john69 » Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:01 am

Jordan 10-E wrote:
dj_john69 wrote:Since 2000, i have seen some of the Worlds biggest and best dj's on the Playa....Oakenfold, Collins, Freeland to name a few. It seems as though everyone is doing a "rave" camp nowadays but only a few are actually worth the time and effort. Much props to the groups that made the effort and spent the time and $$ to do it up right.


I agree there is some "competition", but not every group has $10,000 +/- to "do it right". Some camps are admittedly more successful than others, but everyone one deserves credit for their efforts in whatever they do. Is this any different than a large-scale art project vs. a small simple art piece? I don't see how it is. Groups should consider the implications and results of their proposed camp on their own and determine if it is worth it or not to put their resources into it. If it doesn't work out the way they wanted either they will have to morph into something else in the future or find a way to come up with the very large sums of money to do it right according to your criteria. I give props to camps large and small. I have seen even quite large rave camps with great sound not have the huge numbers of people you might consider making it worth it.

Another point while I am on this, I in no way agree that there should be more or less rave camps. At least not by any rule or imposed cap, the process of natural selection will do that business for you. I am not implying that you were advocating an imposed limit, but I have a feeling that a small handful of people reading will respond to this thread with such an idea. Frankly, I get really tired of the jump-on-the-bandwagon put downs I read from some people attending Burning Man about "ravers" (I'd like to know how they can tell the ravers from everyone else). Last time I checked Burning Man was about the ability for all kinds of groups to express themselves at the event. To make stereotypical judgements like "ravers" don't get it, etc... is very hypocritical. In fact, I think people who make such exclusionary comments are the ones that don't "get it'.

Peace and Freedom to All


I wouldn't go so far to say competition but rather expirence my friend. I do agree with some of your thoughts though. One thing to always remember, people dancing always equals HAPPY people. :D

~John
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Postby glam_daddy » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:18 am

My camp the "love project" has been playing funk , soul, and hip hop for years. guess its all a matter of where you go.
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Postby Chimp » Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:38 am

Your web page is the shit Glam Daddy - Love the random quotes bit.
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Postby elcircusmanotymboy » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:36 am

Actually its true. My deep inside spies have informed me that all electronica of any sort at a decibel rating over that of a regulure conversation will result in having the sound system confiscated for the duration of the event. In order to not interfere with their personal experiances all participants wanting to hear loud electronica will be given walkmen whiile their gear is impounded. There will be several sanctioned dj events for group dancing, one a night at either side of the city. the power will be shut off for an hour at dawn and all decibel readings must be turned down to that of a normal conversation till 1 pm. To be eligible to spin at these camps you need to personaly blow 2/3s of the LLC (with in the scope of your gender preference)or pay extra for the proper "speacile permits". There will be absolutly no other exceptions. It was unilateraly decided that loud electronica can no longer go on unchecked due to the inherent selfishness and tunnelvision of most of the folks doing it. Subjecting everyone to it wiether they like it or not and taking over the ethos of the event. That and the fact that well over two thirds of our medical expenses are the result of dehydration and ond over doses by irresponcible drug users associated with rave drugs, attitudes and excessive brain dead hippy type behavior.
These people always take more than they give and leave the biggest messes to clean up. Certainly not all of them but enough to ruin it for anyone else into that sort of thing. Apparently Larry decided that he didn't want his ideas run over anymore by the rave party type paridign.
The santioned dj/dance events will have a significant prescence of uniformed and un uniformed BLM rangers and Washoe county law enfrorcement personel to insure that no illegal drugs are being sold, possesed or consumed(remember in nevada an ingested drug counts as possesion).
This wouldn't have happened had some djs not selfishly assumed that all the world was their dance party. Oh well.
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Actually...

Postby metric » Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:21 pm

we're not gonna confiscate their equipment... just the fuses from the amplifiers.
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Postby KellY » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:41 pm

Actually, when I came with Antenna Theater to the playa we had the idea of creating a dance camp where everyone who came in would be given a headset and we'd broadcast different music on two or three frequencies. It would be a hell of a visual, all these people crowded on the dance floor dancing in different times, to complete silence.

Since I doubt Antenna Theater will ever actually follow through on that ancient idea, and since I don't have the equipment to make it possible, I hereby bequeath the concept to anyone who wants to pick it up and run with it.
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Re: Actually...

Postby Borris » Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:33 am

metric wrote:we're not gonna confiscate their equipment... just the fuses from the amplifiers.


You sureley know that amp fuses can be easily bypased with some foil.
Shit, where was i for the last week... ehm...
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:35 pm

My personal Webster... techno " No Talent "
/Running to catch the last basket of the day
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So what's the latest word on all this regulation?

Postby eirias » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:37 pm

I personally feel that the dialogue hear about the regulations of electronic music camps warrants further examination. Is any more info in regard to it from any of you all?
B-Man, for me, is a sanctuary of electronica contrasting the void of such music I experience the rest of the year. Sure it seems that in past years that there are more crappy techno DJs about the playa and those who disregard noise regulations, but "crappy" is subjective. And the presence of amazing artists year after year more than compensates IMHO.
My greatest fears are 1) that the surplus of mediocre techno music will stifle the creativity and artistic diversity of the event, and 2) the rumoured increase in the presence of law enforcement specifically stationed at the large techno events. This will surely result in protest and a decrease in attendance by those who feel that this would constitute "lifestyle policing", and thus violate their cognitive liberty, regardless of the participant's relative discreetness in use and consumption.
Futhermore, I feel that the answer to the medical issues that arrive from drugs, etc., are best dealt with via a harm-reductionist approach. Why are there no MDMA testing booths anywhere at the event? I understand the concept of self-reliance and relative stupidity, But do any of you really believe that increased law enforcment officers and a "techno gestapo" will either decrease chemical consumption on the playa or improve the overall nature of the event??
The answer, IMHO, to the dilemma of aural camp monotony is twofold-- 1) CREATE a superior camp, and 2) let the people decide what they want. If no one ever comes to your techno camp and/or several people express their annoyance at your musical stagnance or your disrespect for your neighbors, then perhaps YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ELSE. Of course, and unfortunately so, many people are too ignorant to care about either of the above.
Anyway let's keep this discussion alive, if not here then in a fresh post.
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Postby Badger » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:20 am

Not sure where a lot of this is coming from...

I personally feel that the dialogue hear about the regulations of electronic music camps warrants further examination. Is any more info in regard to it from any of you all? B-Man, for me, is a sanctuary of electronica contrasting the void of such music I experience the rest of the year. Sure it seems that in past years that there are more crappy techno DJs about the playa and those who disregard noise regulations, but "crappy" is subjective.


Agreed. We had several instances where the music was WAY beyond anything reasonable. One sound camp at the edge of the city gave rise to so many complaints within a two hour time period that we seriously believed - based on the collective demands by the disturbed - that a vigilante squad was going to rip the place apart.

It didn't help that the guy running the gig was a pretty oily promoter doing everything but advertising and selling shirts for his gig. A total prick with no regard for anyone around him. Some of us were ready to turn our backs to the pitchfork totin' citizens. They were PISSED!


And the presence of amazing artists year after year more than compensates IMHO. My greatest fears are 1) that the surplus of mediocre techno music will stifle the creativity and artistic diversity of the event, and


Not likely though I personally believe that there's the problem of less electronic oriented music being drowned out by the ever increasing volume (and numbers) of sound camps.

2) the rumoured increase in the presence of law enforcement specifically stationed at the large techno events. This will surely result in protest and a decrease in attendance by those who feel that this would constitute "lifestyle policing", and thus violate their cognitive liberty, regardless of the participant's relative discreetness in use and consumption.


It's rumor. Law enforcement personnel on the playa actually decreased last year. Unfortunately, they get wise like old grizzly bears during a salmon run. They know where the phat busts are more likely to take place. Large crowds in areas relatively well lit areas closer to the outer edges of the city make for great hunting - especially when they hang out on open playa with their night vision.

In the end most of us attending ARE - or should be - aware that the playa is not a free-for-all zone where the local, state and federal laws are somehow suspended in order to accomodate our gathering. Yeh, it sucks. The my experiences have been that the increase in busts [i[seems[/i] in to be related somewhat to the number of first time attendees that head up with this vision in their head that the opposite is the case. Taking for instance the seven Japanese tourists who were snagged when one of them leaned up against a BLM truck and fired up a fatty while the officer was inside.

Futhermore, I feel that the answer to the medical issues that arrive from drugs, etc., are best dealt with via a harm-reductionist approach. Why are there no MDMA testing booths anywhere at the event?


Interesting question. When are you going get around to putting such a program together? It's not our role. We don't babysit. We don't monitor. We don't enable your experience. Yours is an all too frequent criticism about an event that's built and sustained somewhat on PERSONAL responsibility. That responsibility extends to EVERY aspect of your tenure on the playa.

I understand the concept of self-reliance and relative stupidity, But do any of you really believe that increased law enforcment officers and a "techno gestapo" will either decrease chemical consumption on the playa or improve the overall nature of the event??


I think most of us are in agreement to what is the obvious answer.

The answer, IMHO, to the dilemma of aural camp monotony is twofold-- 1) CREATE a superior camp, and 2) let the people decide what they want. If no one ever comes to your techno camp and/or several people express their annoyance at your musical stagnance or your disrespect for your neighbors, then perhaps YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ELSE. Of course, and unfortunately so, many people are too ignorant to care about either of the above.


Unfortunately, with increases in attendees comes a proportionate number in clueless individuals and/or camps. BTW, the cluelessness isn't exclusively in the newcomers court.
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Postby eirias » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:04 am

Thanks for the response, Badger. A lot of the content in my post was based on elcircusmanotyboy's post above. He seemed to be speaking with a relative (presumed) degree of authority.
I am a huge psytrance fan, among other genres, and for me the psytrance experience is intrinsic with burningman. I suppose a good deal of what you posted I could have intuitively concluded for myself, it was more to get a ranger's/insider's input. I have been to every B-Man since 1999, and while that 1st year was definitely more anarchistic and autonomous in my experience, 2000 was the worst for law enforcement, etc.
So are they gonna shut techno-violators down?? Who decides what a violation consists of?
As far as the harm reduction stuff, I would be glad to help initiate testing facilities. I was moreso suprised that no one had not done so already, especially with all the Bay Area attendees. I'll have to do more research to find out about pill testing protocol in Nevada-- if it's illegal, then perhaps I could just whip up and distribute a bunch of Marquis or Mecke reagent test kits :) Just an idea.
I have had sacred expereinces on the playa, both with techno and without. I wonder if perhaps the reputation of the playa, what with the big "names" who've performed out there, encourages the more uninformed and self-righteous newbees (obviously not all of them) to "follow the dream" and attempt to make a a name for themselves. "DOOD I played at Burning Man for 30.000 people". I suppose that the increased attendance of the event is a double-edged sword.
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Postby III » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:27 am

>>most of us are in agreement to what is the obvious answer

requre all camps playing electronic or sampled music to give equal time and volume to the gummo soundtrack?
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Postby III » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:29 am

i meant require.

i hope no one got confused by the missing i.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:56 am

Uh,

would this be considered to be psytrance?

or at least close?
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Postby Jordan 10-E » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:13 am

Actually that is far from psytranc

Anyway, I have a few more comments to make on this subject, but I am a going to wait till I have a little more sleep and a little more time.

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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:22 am

Well after you get some sleep would you mind or anyone mind turning me on to some psytranc links?

thanks.

well off to check out Jordan's site. :wink:
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Postby stuart » Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:19 am

http://www.ishkur.com/features/music/#

thisi is the most exhaustive review of all the sub-genres I have seen. The guys writing is quite fun at times too.
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Postby Badger » Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:34 am

So are they gonna shut techno-violators down?? Who decides what a violation consists of?


Cart before the horse. The tentative plans are to have sound testing equipment available to check a camp should complaints start to trickle or flood in. The acceptable decible has actually been in place for a year or two but enforcement has been minimal due to a relative lack of complaints AND the fact that in the past most music camps have been pretty good in hearing what Rangers have had to say (i.e. mediation) when complaints do arise.

Given the experiences associated with several very loud camps and the general ass-o-holic attitude of several organizers, the plan will be to check sound levels and then give appropriate warning if said levels are above the established 'limits.' Should other attempts at mediation fail a fair warning will be issued. If there are continued violations to the levels then Ranger personnel are emowered to use necessary means to abate the problem. Because the policy has yet to be hammered out formally it's probably not a good idea for me or anyone else to say what might happen. Suffice it to say that in the past when individuals or camps have negatively impacted on the experiences of others they've been asked to leave the event. Such is THE last resort and one that none of us take lightly. I'm just highlighting this point to make folks aware that anything up to eviction is possible. I'd like to think that creativity, diplomacy, cooperation and a sense of community will drive all decisions and resolutions so that everyone in question can come out as a 'winner' rather than polarizing folks by having a winner/loser outcome when complaints arise. It's certainly an end to which I and others are currently working as this policy comes to the fore as we0 get ready for 2004.
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Postby Badger » Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:46 am

Damn. I sure miss that edit function.
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Thanks and some links

Postby eirias » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:31 pm

Badger, you are fantastic. Your aire of diplomacy, and the care and precision with which you construct your responses is par excellence. My respect for you has again increased exponentially. 8)
You have more than answered my inquiries-- should we meet on the playa I will not forget your efforts and kindness. :wink:
It will be interesting to see how the law enforcement scenario should pan out if indeed B-Man migrates to the rez (IMHO not a bad idea-- gets $$ to the tribal population, relatively more control and cooperation with the tribal police vs. the county cops, etc.)
In regard to psytrance/ Goa, the following are some good links to artists, labels etc. (some are keywords when I've forgotten the website):

www.tipworld.co.uk ; www.ceiba.com ; www.twisted.co.uk ; Thump! Radio (Burners they are) ; www.goagil.com ; www.spectralpsy.com ; Goa 604 list ; Flying Rhino.
Good artists IMHO include Bufo, KodeIV, Shpongle/Hallucinogen, Logic Bomb, Slinky Wizard, Wizzy Noise, Etnica/Pleaidians, Goa Gil, Raja Ram, Penta, Atmos, Tsuyoshi, Infected Mushroom, GMS, Shakta, Tristan, Space Tribe, Ollie Wisdom, Ocelot, Yohimbe, Quaasar(sp.?), Analog Pussy, Ololiuqui, Shiva Chandra, Astrix, Mindfield, Rob Rayle, and many more.
and the winner for the best old-school Goa trance artist's name sin qua non, SHAMANIC TRIBES ON ACID!! You simply don;t get much more Goa than that. :lol:

Hope that this is an ok psytrance 101.
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Postby DVD Burner » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:46 pm

Thanks stuart and eirias,

I will check out all that you've suggested.

Thanx.
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OOPS

Postby eirias » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:46 pm

Um, the Ceiba records link is bogus. Do a search for Ceiba Records in S.F. ( I believe they have a store in the Haight). Or perhaps their excellent sister label for break/tech/2-step/quasi-glitch stuff, Eyephunk.
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Postby Chai Guy » Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:36 pm

One glaring omission from your psytrance 101 (imho)

Infected Mushroom

http://www.infected-mushroom.net/
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CEIBA DOESN"T DESERVE YOUR BUSINESS

Postby technopatra » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:29 am

Ceiba has some really cool products & music, but Peter, the guy who runs it, is a wanker of the first order.

Last year Ceiba was a Burning Man ticket outlet. When the tickets started selling like hotcakes, he tried to make it out like his customers were buying the tickets, rather than the reality, which was that Burners were specifically going to his store to buy tickets, providing him with much traffic and bigger sales of other merchandise.

No one goes to a record store for a new CD and buys a $200 ticket as an impulse item. Sorry, that Charlie don't surf.

He actually YELLED at our ticketing angels (2 of the sweetest girls ever) when they would not fork over 4(?!) comp tickets because _he_ had made us so much money on ticket sales.

Go anywhere else. Ceiba doesn't deserve your business. There are other stores that could use your business who owners aren't rude creeps with inflated senses of entitlement.
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UMMM...

Postby eirias » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:37 pm

I'm sorry about your experience with Peter, is he the Kode IV Peter? I wasn't as into the Kode IV set this last B-Man on Sun., not very innovative and a bit fluffy IMHO, but the dancers' vibes were good. He was much better at Fusion in august 2001 (Gus Till and Shakta at Fusion 2001 were INCREDIBLE!!!!) . I don't know him personally, but the Ceiba record label has had a lot of artists and projects I like, such as Bufo, Goa Gil, and the B'Man compilations that they've done.
Chai Guy-- OF COURSE I listed Infected Mushroom. Their listed with the other artists above-- I just didn't know what their web site was. Just wanted to clarify, but thanks for keeping me on my e-toes. I'm sure that there's other talented psytrancers that I may have overlooked as well. But not Infected Mushroom for Chrissakes!! :wink: They're frikkin' legends!!
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