If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:08 am

With all this Political crap going on, would this be the right time to move the Event to a new Location?...

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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby chiefdanfox » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:45 am

Research the judge. I think Burning Man is fucked. This guy is not only ultra conservative, he is considered a loose cannon by the 9th Circuit. In the county's attempt to force the Org's hand, they memorialized the depraved behavior this judge probably imagined. He is a mormon, hell-bent on imposing a conservative, mormon world view on all within his reach.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:54 am

.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Lonesomebri » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:55 am

Where would you find a place so perfectly flat, without any obstacles to night-time bike riding, nothing to burn naturally, no grass, trees, brush, wide open space for art placement, access, no local or federal law enforcement or politics? Is there a place that offers a clear and open path? Our Australian friends might enjoy this, but it would be difficult to make it there.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby BBadger » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:58 am

Ah, that judge is a graduate of BYU, so I guess I'm not so surprised. Anyway, his rulings can, and have been, overturned by other judges. I'm not too worried about this guy, and despite his bluster an agreement was already made to the satisfaction of the two groups involved -- they just wanted a federal blessing. I don't think Jones's antics are going to affect things anyway.

But move it? Nah. Certainly not anywhere green. The placement of BM is great, and at the locus of a great number of communities. The event will probably receive the same amount of shit and exploitation from other places as well, especially as its profile is much larger now.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:10 pm

I'm giving this a nudge over to Politics & Philosophy, since that's a better fit. I suspect the settlement will still be settled. If anything, I suspect the bitchy judge took exception to the language in section 6.1, which took exception with another bitchy judge. I'd guess that judges don't like it when lawyers team up to call out judges like that.

Do I think the time is right to move the event? Not really.

If the event moved, would I still go? Most likely. I don't think the black rock desert is the only place it can ever be held (and where would we be if people felt "ZOMG you can't ever move Burning Man!"), if it really came down to it I think it could be done.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Elliot » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:32 pm

I see that Judge Jones was appointed by George W. Bush. Hopefully Judge Jones’ irrational behavior will serve as a lesson on the dangers of electing a President from the Republican Party.

I expect many perfectly sensible citizens vote Republican for that party’s fiscal philosophy. But then look what happens.

A party “platform” can be a dangerous thing, because any sort of rotten plank may be nailed to sound ones. In this case, we seem to have on our hands a poisonous sliver of religious fanaticism.

There is no doubt we have similar cracked planks in the Democratic Party platform. It is my hope that our nation can move away from the two-party-platform system in favor of a more “line item” oriented system. Fiscal responsibility really has nothing to do with dancing in a desert.

Ooops.... Sorry about the thread drift. I have this instinctive tendency to search for root causes.


Of course, I very much prefer to keep BM where it is. But to say never, is never wise.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby lucky420 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:33 pm

What BBadger said :coffee:
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:09 pm

We have other Deserts here in the States, comprabale to Black Rock... There's Place in Texas, New Mexico, the Baja.. Huge wide Expansive desert. Hell the Baja Penisila has desert with Ocean on both sides. And is only a short drive from San Diego... There are so many other fabulous places available and would beg to Host the event. Why are we even dealing with these Twerks? We have the upper hand, we control the money...

Hell even if they just took the offer by the Indian Tribe to hold it on Tribal Land, would beat the shit we're treated like now...

YMMV...

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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby lucky420 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:28 pm

And you don't think any other area it would move to would not have the same fed/state regs, stipulations, greed, etc?

But than again I'm slightly biased...
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby fernley1 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:31 pm

I like the idea of using tribal land. I know a lot of local tribal member who go to BM.
Was there a deal once to hold it on tribal land?
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:39 pm

Looks like the lawyers have "cause" for a change of venue, or let him make his ruling, put in for reconsideration, and kick it to the higher court.

If I'm not mistaken, that would be the 9th circuit court in San Francisco! 8)
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby lucky420 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:42 pm

Quite a few of the local tribe members do go. They used to get discounted tix ( or maybe that was just a myth).

Symbiosis music festival was held on tribal land over by the pyramid side of the lake. Some of the tribal members were said to be opposed to this but others were in favor of the money generated.

As I was leaving symbiosis on Tuesday after the event I was appalled at the amount of trash that had blown into the surrounding sagebrush. Was advertised as a LNT event. Guess the dirty hippies and hipsters didn't get the message.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Lonesomebri » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:45 pm

"Better the devil you know..."

Sure, moving it to Texas would solve lots of problems.... Heck, I'll just citizen arrest myself before buying a ticket for that one, save the run-around. And have you ever camped at Pyramid Lake legally, and read the regulations the Paiute Tribe hand out? Not saying that there are no other alternatives, it's just they all seem overly rosy when not tried. Though I like talking about moving BM as a bargaining threat, and maybe something better will show up. Of course, there is also alot invested in infrastructure and storage and whatever right where it is at by people higher in the org than I...
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:14 pm

It was on tribal land once... 1998? What they found was that it left them more vulnerable to conditions imposed by outsiders, iirc.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby burner von braun » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:48 pm

I went ahead and looked it up...

1997 (the year after Helco), Burning Man moved to nearby Hualapai flat, which apparently is a playa with some grasslands. Indeed, it was a problematic event, with the sheriff keeping most of the gate receipts, and added to that, political concerns as well. Larry made an impassioned speech to the crowd prior to exodus asking for donations, of which there were many, but they ended up in the red that year. The next year, it was moved back to the location we are familiar with.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:25 pm

It's still west of the rockies making it a big trip for all the east coast people, but in northern Nevada at least it's fairly central for the west coast people. Putting it way down southwest would be fine for Californians but it'd make it a hell of a trip from up here and almost unmanageable from the east coast.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby tamarakay » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:39 pm

The deserts here aren't really barren. Cactus, brush and creepy crawly things in abundance.

Yes I would go anywhere it was held.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:56 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:It's still west of the rockies making it a big trip for all the east coast people, but in northern Nevada at least it's fairly central for the west coast people. Putting it way down southwest would be fine for Californians but it'd make it a hell of a trip from up here and almost unmanageable from the east coast.

I suppose someone could really fuck up their soil in Kansas or Nebraska, and create a barren spot there...
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby BBadger » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:17 pm

Rabbi Dali Rick wrote:We have other Deserts here in the States, comprabale to Black Rock... There's Place in Texas, New Mexico, the Baja.. Huge wide Expansive desert. Hell the Baja Penisila has desert with Ocean on both sides. And is only a short drive from San Diego... There are so many other fabulous places available and would beg to Host the event. Why are we even dealing with these Twerks? We have the upper hand, we control the money...


Baja peninsula? In Mexico? Oh yeah, that's a great alternative. Instead of police trying to catch people with a bit of pot on the last leg to the event, we can pay bribes along the entire route. Instead of a population-limiting highway, we get to ride on roads in various states of disrepair, some lacking striping or even guard-rails, all while avoiding cattle, large trucks, and pot-holes. The whole "Lost Persons" section on ePlaya will have an entirely different meaning when the kidnappings occur near Tijuana; we'll even have Kickstarters for ransoms! Instead of paying Pershing County for security, the Los Zetas can provide security -- and bring the drugs! Just don't cross them if you want to keep your head. We get to have our vehicles checked for stowaways on the way back, not just entering the event! Oh, and what's the law on bringing mutant vehicles across the border? Or back across the border to the US?
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:37 pm

The Rangers will protect us from all that, Bbadger.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby happydragon » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:11 pm

Well, you could move it to Louisiana- the whole state is so damn damp it won't burn no matter what we do and as long as enough of the ticket money goes to bribes in the right pockets then anything is legal. Of course, then the debate will be whether houseboats or tents are burny-er and do we need to protect the sparkle ponies from the alligators, or is it the other way around.....
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Eric » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:17 am

Personally, I wouldn't want a theoretical move to happen unless it moved somewhere as remote & as much a trek to get to. I'd say the Scablands in eastern WA, but I think there's too much life there. Also don't know if you could find a big enough flat spot.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby cow dog » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:18 am

a local opinion, fly ranch, to small 4000 acres, odd shape, wetlands, blm permit in 2013 was 4500 acres, pyramid lake, no flat land, symbiosis was a very small event, held in an area deemed tainted by tribe from a mid 80"s grateful dead gig, washoe county, plenty of the black rock desert, anyone notice lack of law enforcement in empire, gerlach this year as to years past? just a local opinion
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby shroom » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:32 am

only if it's still in the desert. that is part of the appeal to me since I live in the Georgia mountains and am from the beaches of Florida. If it wasn't in the desert I could just do a regional burn. The desert makes it special to me.
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby lucky420 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:33 am

Black rock desert on Washoe county side may be to close to Gerlach and I think it generally gets more water so it may not dry out enough.

Just passing on what I heard once (probably here on eplaya)
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Patsh » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Northern Arizona... lots of big, dry, barren space...

just sayin'
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby FossaFerox » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:26 pm

Patsh wrote:Northern Arizona... lots of big, dry, barren space...

just sayin'


Having hiked all over AZ and had more than a few unpleasant experiences with a variety of cactus, scorpions, spiders, snakes, mountain lions, and javelina (fuck those things are mean) I'm not sure there's barren enough space there.

Seriously, the near total lack of dangerous wildlife is part of what makes BRC so enticing for me. I feel like I'm on Mars.

Were the event to move, I'm a firm believer that we'd have to pick one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... ted_States
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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby Patsh » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:35 pm

FossaFerox wrote:
Patsh wrote:Northern Arizona... lots of big, dry, barren space...

just sayin'


Having hiked all over AZ and had more than a few unpleasant experiences with a variety of cactus, scorpions, spiders, snakes, mountain lions, and javelina (fuck those things are mean) I'm not sure there's barren enough space there.

Seriously, the near total lack of dangerous wildlife is part of what makes BRC so enticing for me. I feel like I'm on Mars.

Were the event to move, I'm a firm believer that we'd have to pick one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:S ... ted_States



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Re: If Burning Man Moved, Would You Still Go?...

Postby tatonka » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:42 pm

there is a playa surface in se Oregon, ne of the town of Fields , has some hot springs around also .
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