challenging "the Temple"

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 am

the vibe is "privilege" and I was chastised by one of them..a former classmate and friend for hanging out with "losers"

thank you for letting me express my dismay as I have been holding it in for some time

now it is gone and I say say good riddance !
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby unjonharley » Wed May 14, 2014 7:39 am

ygmir wrote:I guess I'd like to see, an experiment, with several, if no dozens, of small, individual, "temples".......each done by a small group or an individual (of any size), denominational or not........no rules. Guarded or unguarded.
An area, as a blank slate, to be made by and for "the peeples". as grandiose or plain as wanted.
See what organically evolves. "nothing lasts forever".

the thought came, from my dismay a few years ago at the temple:
I was going to climb up and some suited "goons" (3) stopped me, and said it was a "private party" up there, and I'd have to come back later........WTF?
Later, saw tons of suits and well dressed folks coming down, maybe a wedding or some such? got into limo/MV's and drove off. All clean and pretty, their own security keep the "rabble" away...........
At that point, I knew it was "for sale".............
Wounder who that party of pretty people were..
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Wed May 14, 2014 7:43 am

"lots wife"

hmm
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Wed May 14, 2014 7:46 am

unjonharley wrote:
ygmir wrote:I guess I'd like to see, an experiment, with several, if no dozens, of small, individual, "temples".......each done by a small group or an individual (of any size), denominational or not........no rules. Guarded or unguarded.
An area, as a blank slate, to be made by and for "the peeples". as grandiose or plain as wanted.
See what organically evolves. "nothing lasts forever".

the thought came, from my dismay a few years ago at the temple:
I was going to climb up and some suited "goons" (3) stopped me, and said it was a "private party" up there, and I'd have to come back later........WTF?
Later, saw tons of suits and well dressed folks coming down, maybe a wedding or some such? got into limo/MV's and drove off. All clean and pretty, their own security keep the "rabble" away...........
At that point, I knew it was "for sale".............
Wounder who that party of pretty people were..


yeah dunno, except the "security" seemed very professional, very large, well dressed, forceful, seems they had the radio things in their ears, but now I can't remember that part for sure. I know they were well over the 5 mph limit as the Limo left.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Elliot » Wed May 14, 2014 9:00 am

Maybe a "Circle Of Regional Temples", in a tight circle?
But it will be fine. They will learn from this year's snafu.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Wed May 14, 2014 9:02 am

Elliot wrote:Maybe a "Circle Of Regional Temples", in a tight circle?
But it will be fine. They will learn from this year's snafu.

that's sorta the idea, except no regional......just anyone who wants to make one, does. an area to do it, with placement related to size. No rules, just a space.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed May 14, 2014 9:37 am

i enjoy the structure, it's amazing...i appreciate the artistry of the build....i love to see it burn, although i have missed the last 3.

david best always makes incredible ART.


BUT

i hate the spirituality attached to it.

i loathe the buddhist overtones.

i despise the obliquely enforced silence and "respect"

it's burning man, for fuck's sake, dear temple, get the hell over yourself.

oh yeah, btw, freebird.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby unjonharley » Wed May 14, 2014 11:14 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:i enjoy the structure, it's amazing...i appreciate the artistry of the build....i love to see it burn, although i have missed the last 3.

david best always makes incredible ART.


BUT

i hate the spirituality attached to it.

i loathe the buddhist overtones.

i despise the obliquely enforced silence and "respect"

it's burning man, for fuck's sake, dear temple, get the hell over yourself.

oh yeah, btw, freebird.


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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Joeln » Wed May 14, 2014 11:40 am

@ Simon
As a noob, it's pretty easy for me personally to get the quietness/reverence aspect of the temple.
You have me looking from a different angle and that's good - I like being able to get perspective.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed May 14, 2014 11:50 am

Shove enough LSD-25 into anyone and they get glassy-eyed spiritual real quick.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby ygmir » Wed May 14, 2014 11:54 am

and that's part of it:
with the large and grandiose, come expectations and rules and ownership
and all that..........

at least with little ones, you can sidestep the Buddha reverence and Mormon canned fruit, and go straight to "Sister Mary Elephant"
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed May 14, 2014 12:14 pm

Yeah, it's the scale that kills, IMHO. Cities as well as religions.
If you can't fit everyone in your irreligion into a standard phone booth, then it's time to move on.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby tatonka » Wed May 14, 2014 12:18 pm

temple was a nice build , some in the past the pics have been very nice. I went there once during the day and then seen it burn on Sun but did not stay . Took off right when it fell . I put to rest my demons of the past and hope to find no use for it.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Wed May 14, 2014 12:30 pm

and then we are back to remembering our stumbles in the original years of BRC

yes it was a beautiful endearing event ..Yggy , exactly as you are projecting

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Every-one did it right

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Wed May 14, 2014 1:19 pm

i will admit, in 2004 i was in awe of the temple.

i also met a little 6 year old girl who had lost her mom, so it took on a little deeper meaning.

i also ate an assload of lsd.

so all of the above.....but i did it from a distance....i didnt try to impose my silence or reflection on anyone, and i believe, there might have even been a vocal "wave" that went around and around, far from being "shushed"...

but again, in the same year, i had enormous fun riding on the back of a garbage truck back to recycle camp...it was just as spiritual, quite frankly, as any temple visit, hanging on to that truck, cruising through the back streets of black rock city...i remember it vividly.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed May 14, 2014 2:56 pm

Replace the "amens" and the "ommms" with "oh wow" and you're good to go.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Wed May 14, 2014 4:00 pm

yes
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby C187 » Wed May 14, 2014 4:05 pm

I say fuck it. Let's just make our own mini temples and place them ourselves. Then come temple burn day, we'll gather them up and toss them into the sanctioned temple.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby aserendipity » Wed May 14, 2014 4:14 pm

and to be clear about this
we all do make our own temples
and I do honor David Best , the artist within and without
and the fabulous temple of years ago with music at just the right time

xoA.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby fbcota » Sun May 18, 2014 10:55 pm

Hi All, it's a pretty interesting topic so far. And their is a large amount of information that is floating around. I was sitting in the background watching and it has been weird seeing my name getting thrown around.

I personally took it quite poorly when Embrace didn't get Temple. I know personally that my own ego was deeply invested in the project and it felt like a rejection of our teams idea. There was also a concern about whether or not creating multiple giant projects was financially feasible considering that most of the art funding comes from a similar pool of "benefactors". It is hard detaching ego from these projects, and its unfortunate that mine got in the way so much. But, I learned quite quickly that our community is feircly protective of what it defines the "temple" as. It was surprising reading some of the darker things people were saying about it, and it was even more personally surprising to see how angry I got about the recent announcement that David would be doing it. It's hard not to let ones humanity seep through and start to feel like this is a giant competition. Which, is the last thing any of this should be about. Emotions run high though when chasing down what is never an easy task (building art on Playa).

David will make another great David Best temple. The Temple is not required to take hundreds of thousands of dollars to build, and it does not need to be 7 stories. I do think the Temple is stunningly important for our city. I needed the Temple last year as I had lost my father immediately after returning from Burning Man in 2012. And the 2013 temple helped me personally in a way that nothing else could. And I will need this years Temple to reflect on a second year of moving through that journey and a place to mourn my dog. The Temple is not for everyone, and it is not meant for everyone. But it is so important when you find that you need it.

None of the projects on playa receive a huge amount of money from Burning Man or any other groups for that matter. A wide range of camps spend amounts that make the art look like spare change. And it is not easy finding out the exact terms of Burning Mans contract if you have never dealt with it directly before. I can see how Ross, or anyone for that matter could find themselves in the dark in regards to the terms of the contract. I feel that Ross made some wonderful points on his site that hit on some things that have frustrated myself at times. It is stunningly scary to consider the potential personal liability that you are taking on when building a huge project at Burning Man. For myself it hasn't been so bad as I am single with few if any tangible assets. But for a person with a family, a house and savings a large amount of the joy of making art can get sucked out of your lungs when you realize that you could very well get sued for everything you own if a drunk finds themselves seriously injured on your art piece. The stress multiplies when you add in the sheer logistics of a large project, the act of being in the public eye (especially while doing temple), managing volunteers (who are mostly good friends who you would like to continue being friends with after the event) and dealing with trying to find ways to raise between $100,000-$200,000 in a period of 5 months.

Art at times can feel maybe a bit too challenging to build at Burning Man then it should be. I can only speak for myself on this, but at the end of the day when a project gets hard it is the smiles of the people who enjoyed our past projects that push me forward.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby fbcota » Sun May 18, 2014 10:58 pm

And shit, everyone should build a god damned temple :). And everyone should interact with it the way they see fit. The cool thing about the temple at Burning Man is that you can run inside, take your pants off, put them on your head and yell and scream and giggle and move on without a worry in the world. Temples have been fun, they have been silly, they evoke tears, and joy, and hate and love and well everything.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby fbcota » Sun May 18, 2014 11:07 pm

I am looking forward to seeing the Temple this year. I may have thrown my tantrum, and David and I may not get along so well. But the man makes great art and it was his art that finally got me to go to Burning Man. :)
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby lucky420 » Mon May 19, 2014 6:31 am

fbcota wrote:I am looking forward to seeing the Temple this year. I may have thrown my tantrum, and David and I may not get along so well. But the man makes great art and it was his art that finally got me to go to Burning Man. :)


S'okay fbcota, it's understandable. You and the crew have put so much into this. It's an emotional issue for sure...
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon May 19, 2014 8:05 am

this too shall pass.


Embrace will be Awesome....The Temple will be Fantastic....The Alien Siege Machine will Try to Over-Run the City and the man will Burn.


Amen

Ohm

Namaste

FreeBird

Fuck Yer Day.

i love you.




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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby msj2u » Mon May 19, 2014 7:48 pm

I prefer the temple to the man burn every year.

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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby gaminwench » Mon May 19, 2014 10:22 pm

Most years, i can feel the temple from ~100 yards away.
All of the energy and intention that goes into the building and 'inhabiting' of that open air structure creates a (to me) palpable field.
That alone blows my mind.
Every time. :D
Temple burn is a highlight.
(and for the record, I treasure the only communal silence 'we' have an opportunity to experience out there.
if you're rockin' it, I will relocate; I don't wanna yell).

Based on the stuff that gets left there,
and the energy it holds,
the Temple fills a need for a great many people.
Its presence in our city grew, organically, from that collective need.

But there's always room for more temples.
it's f**king Burning Man.
Brang it*snap* and BURN IT!!
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eddaytona » Mon May 19, 2014 10:45 pm

Last year someone hung their hospital gown in the temple with a sign that said "This was me in cancer. It's not me anymore." Or something like that. It stunned me. Blew my head off. Changed my worldview.

2012 I worked on my cynicism. Last year I worked on my pessimism. Freebird pissed me off. I embrace it now. It's not me anymore. Thank you temple.
One day we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny.
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby DoctorIknow » Mon May 19, 2014 11:29 pm

gaminwench wrote:I treasure the only communal silence 'we' have an opportunity to experience out there.


I also treasure every second of silence during the temple burn, and there are very few groups of even 5 seconds of only hearing the
sounds of fire, wood snapping/exploding, and one can sometimes even hear the sound of the mini-cyclones. Also, so many people not making sounds creates sort of a vacuum/out of phase effect, real or imagined, that makes every little sound of the fire so much more audible and ear-gasmic.


The thinking (if that's possible) for "woo-hoo-ers" (that aren't drunk or morons) during the temple burn might be that they are feeling justified with their elitist, arrogant and perhaps sociopathic actions by believing: "Although whoo-hoo screaming during 30,000 being silent is obnoxious to almost everyone, this is my art because I say so and BM encourages self expression, i.e. art, so fuck off hippie."
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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Jackass » Mon May 19, 2014 11:35 pm

Should we be sitting or standing?



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Re: challenging "the Temple"

Postby Eric » Tue May 20, 2014 12:10 am

DoctorIknow wrote:The thinking (if that's possible) for "woo-hoo-ers" (that aren't drunk or morons) during the temple burn might be that they are feeling justified with their elitist, arrogant and perhaps sociopathic actions by believing: "Although whoo-hoo screaming during 30,000 being silent is obnoxious to almost everyone, this is my art because I say so and BM encourages self expression, i.e. art, so fuck off hippie."



Or they could be letting out a version of primordial screams, much like the cultures that use keening or wailing to lament the dead (or their release from whatever it is that drew them to the Temple). Calling them elitist and arrogant, and worst, sociopathic, because they don't follow the action you personally think they should shows a bit of the narcissism and demagoguery that is the root of the recurrent problems there (and a major reason I don't sit anywhere near the Temple for that Burn).

Just like no two people burn alike, no two people mourn alike. The world I come from has both solemn moments and loud wailing, plus riotous drinking and dancing to celebrate the memories of those who passed. All those expressions are valid, even if only some people only take part in one of them.
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