American Flags Flying in Black Rock City

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

for KnowMatterWhat--

Postby P-Mobius » Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:42 am

reagrding the first message posted here
if looking at the flag of the United States reminds you of the republican party you need to be more alert and resistant to how other entities program you

take a very powerful symbol of the US flag and define it more on YOUR terms not somebody elses.
the american flag is a symbol that is highly flexible

keep in mind that there are many types of american flags too

"dont tread on me" for example, or
a flag with 13 stars in a circle represents more Revolution to me--
and a flag with 50 stars in it represents more Empire to me

guess what ? today you live in an empire...and there are positive and negative things about being a part of it. the same goes for its flag.

granted being at bman there is an empowerment about its properties as a temporary autonomous zone
one often feels like you are on another planet and/or dimension so the presence of a US flag can seem so--limiting or even quaint? or just too much of a reality you wanted to leave behind...ok..fair.

but

i think its fine that folks fly american flags--hey its part of ones communication--its a multilayered trip
more directly, its a very visually interesting and emotional symbol and since it provoked you to the point that you posted this forum query--well accept that as a valid growthful part of your everevolving impossible to define bman consciousness

im not the greatest lover of the flag but i still love it and the country.
but--i dont love it the way a loyal 4th grader loves it.
nor do i challenge (hate?) it the way a rebellious 18 year old does.
i relate to these things as a more even keeled adult. you know. and since i have a choice to relate to the flag on a more positive or a more negative note
i choose the positive...its more healthy to use it as an ally than as an enemy. and if you can dig the flag, it gives you a huge bridge to other americans who may not be as critical or burner type as you but are just down home good people.

ive done alot of travel in the usa and ive felt that the presence of a us flag sticker on the rear view mirror helps me out alot. not necessarily among counterculture rebel types (ive got other 'ins'), but among the establishment and everyday joes.
it can act as a huge symbol of unity...it can build an "im one of you mentality"

i believe that cops respect you more if you display the flag, local yokels accept you more, and it makes my freakky nature a little more digestible for the masses.

helps start up conversations that you may have never had
keeps you out of trouble in a way... psychically, culturally, maybe prevented a speeding ticket or two?

and if youve ever travelled in a foreign country and display the local flag on your backpack or tent---it can act as a bridge between you and the locals

that being said bman is not your everyday thang

but
remember too that
the event does take place on PUBLIC land in the United States, which "belongs" to all us citizens.
wow
we have public land
what a concept

bman did not originate in other countries. it started here and this is where its main thang is held, even as it replicates in other locales

contrary to some of the other comments posted in this forum---whether bman could have originated in another country is moot--IT DIDNT!

for one thing, dont underestimate the effects of the physical environment on shaping the event--the presence of a large remote (but not too remote), openslated salt flat is critical to the bman experience-----so that eliminates non desert countries...etc (dont get into baker beach stuff--not quite the same thing)

also--the way bman is requires a certain degree of surplus--of time, materials, enthusiasm---which you dont necessarily have in poorer nations

so in my brief list of remaining nations theres not that many left---too poor, inaccessible, dangerous, conservative----

i respect that the convergence of events that allowed bman to emerge and continue have unique and synchronistic elements of US culture.

but maybe its just chance too

ok back to the flag and the nation---whether you like or not, if you are an american citizen, you end up carrying both the fruits and the baggage of the national karma...fortunately, you get to shape it too---and thats a really bmanesque/american idea too

a little bit of international travel will ring this home even clearer


furthermore one can consider bman a microcosm of the american experience as whole.
quintessentially the ultimate american event. the usa in miniature--highly distilled and concentrated.

aspects of freedom, abundance, decadance, beauty, tranquility, unity
also aspects of restraint, scarcity, austerity, horror, destruction, tribalism and anarchy

historically the immigrants/residents to both America and Burningman have imbued both "events" with high degrees of utopianism. and that utopianism was more pure , more exciting, more genuinely free when they were both younger...

as the "unoccupied" space became more populated and the culture became more established, an awareness of each's shortcomings became more apparent
elements of control emerged and vested members of the communities
contemplated what has been lost from the original vision---whatever that was--seeee
also whats been gained through growth and maturity

so thats why you (we, we all) have mixed feelings about the flag.

just remember, overall---its a good thing
P-Mobius
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:19 am

Postby Simply Joel » Fri May 21, 2004 1:38 pm

Where the hell was i when this thread began?
Simply Joel
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri May 21, 2004 3:23 pm

Wow Mobius--great post. Thoughtful, honest, lucid.
Especially liked your analysis of "american" things that went into the creation of Burning Man. I wish you had contributed that to the thread that discussion was on.

(Even though I was on the side that was arguing that it wasn't about the specialness of america.)
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri May 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Simply Joel wrote:Where the hell was i when this thread began?

Um Seven months from signing up on e-playa?


She says brightly
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Postby LeChatNoir » Fri May 21, 2004 7:39 pm

P-Mobius,

Well said...
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
User avatar
LeChatNoir
 
Posts: 5831
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
Location: Louisville, Ky

Postby Bob » Fri May 21, 2004 8:30 pm

Image
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
User avatar
Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

Postby Bob » Fri May 21, 2004 8:33 pm

Image
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
User avatar
Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

Postby DVD Burner » Fri May 21, 2004 9:08 pm

Simply Joel wrote:Where the hell was i when this thread began?


You think this thread is something, you should meet the author. KnowMatterWhat is a riot. hope he's at the event sunday.
Image

"The art is in the digit!"

The Original Digiman
User avatar
DVD Burner
 
Posts: 9741
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:09 am

Postby LeChatNoir » Fri May 21, 2004 9:41 pm

Hey, pretty great examples, there Bob.

Ya’ know... Speaking of animals on flags, Ben Franklin felt that the bald eagle was a poor symbol for the United States. He advocated the Turkey. In fact I’ve got the text of a letter penned by him somewhere on this hard drive about that very thing. Excuse me whilst I dig......


Here ya’ go:

"For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.

"With all this Injustice, he is never in good Case but like those among Men who live by Sharping & Robbing he is generally poor and often very lousy. Besides he is a rank Coward: The little King Bird not bigger than a Sparrow attacks him boldly and drives him out of the District. He is therefore by no means a proper Emblem for the brave and honest Cincinnati of America who have driven all the King birds from our Country....

"I am on this account not displeased that the Figure is not known as a Bald Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native America... He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on."

--Benjamin Franklin, in a letter
to his daughter


Heh, Heh... Now I wonder how would things be different had it worked out to Ol' Bens liking?
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
User avatar
LeChatNoir
 
Posts: 5831
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
Location: Louisville, Ky

Postby Bob » Sat May 22, 2004 12:04 am

Image
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
User avatar
Bob
 
Posts: 6762
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: Royaneh

Postby Dr. Pyro » Sat May 22, 2004 3:20 pm

Post 100! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

Doc

P.S. I suspect a lot of you, especially you newbies, don't get the joke. I think that is just as well.
User avatar
Dr. Pyro
 
Posts: 3670
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:11 am
Location: Newcastle, CA
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro

Postby Simply Joel » Mon May 24, 2004 9:20 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:Post 100! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

Doc

P.S. I suspect a lot of you, especially you newbies, don't get the joke. I think that is just as well.


where is zane?
Simply Joel
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Land of Lincoln

Postby blyslv » Mon May 24, 2004 2:50 pm

When I came back from more than 2 years overseas I saw the statue of liberty from the airplane window and was literally bouncing up and down on my seat. When I saw the american flag overseas, it made me proud and happy.

Once in greece an old man said to me that he could give me only half his heart, becasue while he loved America, he hated our leaders.

This past weekend at a large even I used camo netting of white, blue and red. People started comenting on the patriotic theme, which truthfully hadn't occured to me (nothing unusual there, many things don't occur to me). And I thought about it and said I love this fucking country it's a gret place to live, but I hate the fucking politicians. A symbol's power is only what you give it.
Fight for the fifth freedom!
blyslv
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:22 pm
Location: Fanta Se NM

Previous

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest