Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:29 pm

lemur wrote: the staff camp im involved with gets access to commisary, showers, trash service, gray water hauling, potable water, storage (delivery/placement/removal of containers), heavy machinery, electricity, communications, golf carts/transportation... as well as provided all of the needed structures (which in recent history, our group assembles/sets up)... if that aint 'plug-n-play' (i.e. vendor provided business) i dont know what is....


So, what you're saying is..if I pay somebody...I have access to all this?? Sure beats working!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby scottgeller » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:34 pm

alt12 wrote:
PapaBear2120 wrote:I was shown this video last summer by someone who was part of the build crew and catering for this camp. I don't know anyone but her and I'm going to refrain from making my own comments about it for the time being. I do think it's a fitting video for this discussion.




This video is wild! It looks like a Carnival Cruise line affair except everyone is wearing the same Pimp Sheik(TM) clone outfit. This is so far from my experience of burning man theme camp life that it might as well be a different event. Catered buffet meal service, pre-built air conditioned condo/yurts, etc. Crazy. Very American though. There is some kind of fantasy that comfort/luxury = good. Whereas its very clear at burning man that literally you got what you put into it. The more effort you put in and the more you are involved the deeper the community experience. Its truly a sweat-equity event.

But hey if these guys want to parachute into event and land in pre-set-up RV camp, I guess that's up to them. Personally, I trie to ignore/avoid these types of camps/people and pretend they are not there....


So the guy invited his not-so-cool friends to open their minds........so what........maybe they took some acid.......it's all good, right?

Hey....when I was 22 I did the youth hostle thing in Europe..........but I can afford better now.....and i'm still the same person...)'(
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:36 pm

SassySunny wrote:I and all the Burners I know are very opposed to the P&P mentality.
Over the past many years, my husband and I have been part of a few different camps, both large and small. We enjoyed the fact that we were participants and that BM was a place where everybody enjoyed radical self-sufficiency and self-expression. Part of that wonderful experience was the fact that we each helped to take care of the necessities. We "built" our own camps, maintained them and kept them clean. We generally helped one another and we each pulled our own weight. This was the cement that we all shared. We gifted food and shared duties and felt as one big family. That was an integral part of the BM experience which was experienced by everyone, no matter which camp we were with.
This concept of Plug 'n' Play changes that equality and adds an aspect that is foreign to the nature of BM. It means we can now pay for the privilege of being elite, and of shirking all the responsibilities of being actual Burners. It means we can become spectators instead of participants, and visit a "resort" environment where we are no longer self-sufficient. It changes the entire culture, and attracts people who would not otherwise survive the environment nor be able to actually take care of themselves there.
It just isn't why we old-time Burners go to BM. It dilutes the experience of "coming together" in this harsh environment to experience together this culture together. If this "B&B" mentality is implemented, it will drastically change the BM experience, culture, and the people. It will no longer be the wonderful community that has made it what it is. And it will open the door for more and more commercialism in the future, drifting further and further from the original concept and experience of BM.


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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:41 pm

TomServo, Lemur left out the fact he's a Lamp Lighter kitchen-ass-busting- set- up-cook etc..participant. I doubt he writes a BIG FAT CHECK.

Yea, if the wealthy would drop more of that stuff you mention^^^ maybe they'd be more friendly and less snooty.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Eric » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:49 pm

Just in case anyone missed our story about this from the organizers view-point in the Weekly last year, you can find it here. I can't bring myself to call them "PnP" camps, that means something completely different in gay slang and makes my skin crawl (mainly because I know those kind of PnP camps exist as well). We call 'em "VIP camps".



Also, this thread is bringing a lot of first time posters, I hope some of you pop over to the "Introduce Yourself" forum & stick around!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:10 pm

TomServo wrote:
lemur wrote: the staff camp im involved with gets access to commisary, showers, trash service, gray water hauling, potable water, storage (delivery/placement/removal of containers), heavy machinery, electricity, communications, golf carts/transportation... as well as provided all of the needed structures (which in recent history, our group assembles/sets up)... if that aint 'plug-n-play' (i.e. vendor provided business) i dont know what is....


So, what you're saying is..if I pay somebody...I have access to all this?? Sure beats working!


no of course not!

but in terms of the point Bob was making, in that its hard to find an actionable difference between the various types of camps,.. it is there to serve as an example that in some ways, while it isnt pay to play, some of the staff camps are part of this... in effect, the event itself is one big 'plug-n-play' i.e. vendor provided camp..and the staff camps are the people who are like the guys running 'playaskool' with their 60 rvs and staff serving customers.

people show up to burning man.. with fire, police, medical, communications, disaster planning, health dept, sanitation.. contingencies, rangers, cafe, the man, the temple, funded art, street signs, street lights, gridded streets, cleanup crews.. etc. . etc.. already provided, all the majority of participants need to do is bring their camp and everything else is provided!

sure, it might be a little bit of boiling stuff down to reach such a conclusion, but its effectively what these VIP vendor camps are doing but on a different level..

burning man provides the big majority of the services as a vendor, and these smaller VIP vendor camps seem to be providing the rest.

the event surely does encourage 'radical self reliance' but you get more for your ticket than a space to camp, whether or not you provide all of your own stuff in yer camp.. youre hooked in to a bigger foundation of services, that while you might not use.,.. they are there for you if you need em
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:14 pm

That's quite a difference than paying for a service online...everything is provided...and you don't need to clean up after yourself. I worked with the DPW and DMV, I know how the staff shit works. Even staying at the ranch, I had to bring my usual gear. And, we also worked our asses off.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby FireDiva » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:15 pm

This will be my first year having to fly in to the burn. I know it is difficult to obtain things for the playa and then figure out what to do with all your "stuff" when you leave. Throw it out?? Donate it to a good charity? Rent a storage space?? All viable options, but not really ideal.I googled Burning Man outfitters and one from Henderson, NV had the following post: The Seasoned Burners- 2 Person Package $650
The two person package includes rental of the following for your stay: Large shade structure, 2-person Tent, 2 Beach cruiser bikes, 6 5ft strands of EL wire with batteries, Chairs, butane cooker, Kitchen table, Cooking dish set, Carpet,10 gal potable water with refills, Greywater bucket, Greywater disposal at main camp.
Other than the grey water disposal, it seems as if they are just renting the equipment. No problems there.

I do have a problem with changing the Burning Man ethos. The Ten Principles are what makes Burning Man, Burning Man.

All the large RV camps set up who offer the Burning Man "tourist" the opportunity to just show up with no preparation other than to show up with their costumes and glow sticks. Do they invite others to join in their space? So much for PARTICIPATION. In the spirit of radical inclusion, "sparkle ponies" and "tourists" do have their place, but which of the rest of the 10 principles do we sacrifice to make things easier for someone?

How about LNT? I would love to not have to moop. (I have seen a major change in the Burn, especially after we got WiFi and cell service. I see people sitting in center camp, updating their Facebook page, but not participating. I see moop blowing by someone, and no one even trying to catch it.)

After having seen these "plug n' play" camps, I wonder about "radical participation and radical self-reliance", if they are allowed to continue this we may have to remove the "radical" and insert "sort-of" in its place. They tend to circle the wagons, so to speak, to limit access to their exclusive areas. What about inviting me into your "plug n' play" camp, as I would invite you into my camp to share my food, drink, shade and hospitality??

Decommodification?? The principle states: "In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience." REALLY? Let's just say that someone, somewhere is making a butt load of cash on this. It may be pre-playa, but it still goes against the principle in my eyes. One of the reasons being that it makes it easier for someone to NOT participate, NOT to prepare, NOT to learn what the burn is about.

Having been a burner for the past 10 years (most of it in an RV), been part of a theme camp, coming to the burn for up to 3 weeks at a time, working the medical tent, being part of a funded art project, performing in the great circle with the fire performers, helping plan and put on a regional event, I feel as if I PARTICIPATED. Like most real burners (meaning participants, not observers), I try to live the 10 principles (O.K., so it is hard to do the Decommodification thing in the default world, but I volunteer my time, so maybe that counts). Burning Man happens every day in my life, not just for a week in the Nevada desert.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:21 pm

TomServo wrote:That's quite a difference than paying for a service online...everything is provided...and you don't need to clean up after yourself. I worked with the DPW and DMV, I know how the staff shit works. Even staying at the ranch, I had to bring my usual gear. And, we also worked our asses off.


youre the seperate 'staff camp' that the couple in the video were talking about...the one that was seperate from their customers camp, sure.. you might have to work, but youre the vendor, providing a service to the customers of burning man..... just because that couple, and the guy from playaskool had to work didnt mean they werent one of the VIP vendor 'plug n play' camps!

basically it all boils down to the point that i believe Bob was trying to make: not many folks out there are 100% radically self reliant.. even the ones who are working the event building the shit get to hook up to all of the services that allow them to do the job they need to do to serve burning mans customers.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby cosmicgiggle » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:32 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
cosmicgiggle wrote:I don't see what is hard to understand about why the whole "plug and play" idea is bad for the event in numerous destructive ways...

1) it creates a new black market for profit in which the event and its free art and expression is "curated" by these types of camps who trick CUSTOMERS into believing that their bm experience will help guide the new wealthy elite who choose to attend. it seems woefully simple that on the playa you are just another citizen and any advantage you may have in the real world either due to money or fame or whatever should not matter an iota on the playa. effectively that means: everyone figures it out just like everyone else...the huge spiritual reward of the event comes only AFTER you put in hard work to bring the city to life. "gaming the bm system" so you can make a buck to stick in your pocket is killing our event and community. in my opinion anyone engaging in this should be banned from the event outright!

2) no matter what principle you stick behind it, making the burn "easier" to attend is directly proportional to how quickly you are destroying the core community. from a top down perspective, dpw and the artists who create the city get nothing for all their trouble...so why should these plug and play theme camps be allowed to profit off of the backs of these people?

3) the sustainability of the community is also directly linked into this nonsense, as
sheeple always tend to follow rather than lead. If more and more people seek to either convert their current camp to plug and play or even if due to pure laziness they convince themselves that they need an RV for the event, think about how negatively it affects the event as a whole. it is an interesting enough fact, that more and more artists from bm are taking their art to huge commercial raves and festivals so maybe the entropy is working on both sides of the issue...but the point remains the same, commercialize the event and realize you are also killing it at the same time.

I'm afraid you've instantly disqualified yourself for using that lazy and dismissive term.
What's that?
You say I'm being dismissive towards you?
You could see it that way. But at least I did a minor amount of coding the post, rather than just throwing down a faux-clever buzzword.


:? wow. well i suppose i should let you re-write my comment to fit your lexicon. now that i re-read the comment i can obviously see how that one word negates everything i say. i thought 17 years of attending would grant me some say...what was i thinking? perhaps you can perform your "coding" on everyone here...
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:42 pm

No one is 100% Radically self reliant. This... http://bboutfitter.com/ ....is pretty close to 100% dependant. The infrastructure, provides for volunteers to a certain degree. BUT those luxuries are payed for by volunteer time. When you pay CASH for such luxuries and avoid the hassle of actually working to have a comfortable camp, THAT is where the line is drawn. THAT is an inexcusably lesser percentage, than the aspired 100%. I haven't watched the video yet, so I can't comment on that.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby chromatest » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:48 pm

How about we revoke all of the vendor passes?

Why the fuck does an event that has no vending have vendor passes in the first place?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby VultureChow » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:51 pm

I have no problem with people making a profit. We all take advantage of some paid service. We rent hotels, RV's, bikes, cars. We buy clothes, el wire kits, etc.

I have no problem making it easier for people to attend. Should only westerners be able to attend? I don't think anyone could argue that the event hasn't benefited from having a more diverse and international population.

I have no problem with the services provided at staff camps. They create and maintain the infrastructure and services need to hold the event. Those services are a gift to the whole community.

What is the issue here, is a creation of a servant or employee caste within the event whose labor goes to benefit a select few connected or wealthy people.

You don't have to sleep in a shitty coleman tent. Or eat canned food heated on your dashboard. Those with means can live better on the playa than those without. There is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is bringing the help.

And I take issue with the caterer's comment that people who live very different lives with a ton of money can't do it without these support staff. Bullshit. If they want something bad enough, they can make it happen on their own.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:56 pm

i dont mean to send a message that i think these kinds of VIP vendor camps are good.... i dont think they are good.

i dont mean to send a message that the staff/funded camps shouldnt get the services they get which allow them to more easily and efficiently do their job.. those things certainly make things a lot easier.



just pointing out that burning man itself is in some way the biggest overall example of this concept... and that these VIP vendor camps seem to be filling in the gaps that the LLC has left open.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Eric » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:04 pm

chromatest wrote:How about we revoke all of the vendor passes?

Why the fuck does an event that has no vending have vendor passes in the first place?


Are you going to empty the Porta-Potties, wash them twice daily, and then truck the "waste" in a state-certified vehicle to a state-certified disposal site? That would be 900 Porta-Potties, twice a day, every day.

Are you going to bring the truck-loads of ice that get sold at the Artica's? You may not use it, but can you imagine what would happen to all the bars without it?

How about the wood for the Man, or the Temple, or the fireworks, or the steel used for armature...

There are a lot of reasons vendor passes exist. The event would cease if they were revoked- especially the Porta-Potties. No Pots, no event. Period.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Dr Jet Sinister » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Fuck calling them 'VIP camps' they aren't 'very important people' in BRC. :x How about entitlement camps or customer camps?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:06 pm

chromatest wrote:How about we revoke all of the vendor passes?

Why the fuck does an event that has no vending have vendor passes in the first place?


the vendor pass referred to in the video likely arent what you might think they are.... it doesnt seem to be like applying to setup shop as a for profit VIP camp.

vendor passes referred to in the video appear to be in reference to vendors providing services to participant camps that contracted them, stuff like vehicles coming in/out often..

i.e. a camp contracts an outside company to pump their porta potty (not the contractor burning man used), or to deliver goods/services multiple times during the week.. theyd get a vendor pass for that vendor to come in and out.

the vendors contracted directly by the LLC dont need a vendor pass.

at least.. my reading of the rules/regulations document makes it seem like this, in practice it could be very different.. i dont speak for the vendor team or the LLC in that regard.. and ive never contracted a vendor or needed anyone to get a vendor pass
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:09 pm

Eric wrote:
Are you going to empty the Porta-Potties, wash them twice daily, and then truck the "waste" in a state-certified vehicle to a state-certified disposal site? That would be 900 Porta-Potties, twice a day, every day.

Are you going to bring the truck-loads of ice that get sold at the Artica's? You may not use it, but can you imagine what would happen to all the bars without it?

How about the wood for the Man, or the Temple, or the fireworks, or the steel used for armature...

There are a lot of reasons vendor passes exist. The event would cease if they were revoked- especially the Porta-Potties. No Pots, no event. Period.


my reading of the documents seems to imply that those vendors are explicitly exempt from all 'vendor pass' considerations, ..while nobody would want THOSE vendors to go away.. it appears that vendor passes are only for vendors working to provide services to participants... it doesnt seem to apply to DPW vendors or vendors dealing directly with the LLC
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:23 pm

I re-read the Piss Clear article. Fuck You money is a polite way of saying Drop Dead money. Too bad they mean it, maybe we regular folk should too, without the money, lol

In 2011, I didn't appreciate the fact I was treated like some criminal when I approached another small MV to compliment it and point out my own. Instead the entire group of those fancy people flipped out and stuttered who knows what (I think something to thier bodyguards?) Yea, well Imma be sure my hands are dusty and grab thier fancy curtains on their sparklemobile and mussy the frills on the fabric up a bit. Spoiled brats from Upper East side of New York City, they need more down to earth body guards so they can particpate "safely" lmao!

What to wear for extremely wealthy "burner" body guards. Please, nothing agressive looking (your defense skills are enough)...perhaps drag queen, bunny, a raver?

It's impossible to avoid them, their camps yes to a point (they make that easy) but they have nothing but time to go everywhere and act like snobs. Fuck their day, unless they wanna learn to play nicer.

None of this is written in stone. I did feel like I was treated like some piece of shit. I am a good person and that inncoent encounter was worse than everyday life. Sparkle ponies bite (or their muscle does) that's what I took away from them. I wish those types could learn to relax, but perhaps it's impossible for them, maybe they are too VIP?

ETA: Oh yea, I forgot, they are the entitlements...'cept the ones I encountered that day had some mean dudes guarding them. I'm focused on their treatment of others. Not the obvious difference of the LLC's hiring of help vs Plug & Play (a no brainer and distraction from the behaviour of entitled snobs).
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby LegendZero » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:40 pm

Since I cant do anything to stop them all I can do is shame them here is an even more vomitous vendor that says "Let us handle all the details so you don't have to!" and mentions being in the wall street journal. Warning may incite rage http://www.classicadventuresrv.com/burningman.html

Also how to all these sitse use the burning man name without the LLC suing them into the ground?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Eric » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:46 pm

lemur wrote:my reading of the documents seems to imply that those vendors are explicitly exempt from all 'vendor pass' considerations, ..while nobody would want THOSE vendors to go away.. it appears that vendor passes are only for vendors working to provide services to participants... it doesnt seem to apply to DPW vendors or vendors dealing directly with the LLC



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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Eric » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:51 pm

LegendZero wrote:Also how to all these sitse use the burning man name without the LLC suing them into the ground?


The BMorg doesn't have time to find them all on their own. However, if you email the link to press (at) burningman (dot) com they do act on them. I've let them know sites that have come up from here & that I've found elsewhere & have seen them (or that section) disappear within a day.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:37 pm

Politically correct stance - We look forward to "Plug and Play" campers. Are wonderful addition to Burning Man, and exemplify spirit of Radical Self Reliance, Decommodification, and Radial Inclusion. We welcome those who look upon us as those who bring a valuable element to their cash-and-carry burn experience...

tic tic tic...

Actual observation from Plug and play Campers in 2010 - "No, you cannot to take items in camp that are not bolted down... I cannot serve you if you are falling down drunk... please to pick up moop, yes I am talking to you... Put that down, is not yours, YOUR stealing is nyet gifting, is theft... Get OUT of my tent, is PRIVATE area"

Mind you, I did have some pleasant (and surprise) interactions with PnP burners, And found even one famous personality can sneak away from watchers, stumble into Kantina, and do vodka shots with barkeep (he has good voice of Lenin, dreamy eyes of Beria, and can to keep up shot to shot like General Zukhov!). ;) I also had others I had to physically remove from Kantina for severe assholism, alcoholism, and a bad case of entitlement (not to mention the pair of Kleptos we had... ;( )

I am serious - if they want to be part of REAL burn, let them to join camp such as ours. It will nyet be a sanitary, false burn experience, but it will to be fun. And they will walk away, not just having another "experience", but taking with them knowledge they are, indeed, burners at home on playa!

As I always have said, since 2005 (or before) - It is party of BMOrgs, they can do it as they want, and I will to be cool wtih it. It is just surprise they fell down slippery slope of Commerce from Ice and Coffee sales to promotion of those who make capitalist business of bringing pay and go burners to Burn... I still do whatever I can to make these comrades burners, but as you can tell from above example, it was not easy task in 2010. I can to only hope that we can to welcome with open arms and loaded kalashnikovs, and waiting seat under Interrogation lamp of Confession!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Dr. Pyro » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:42 pm

BBSue, will you marry me?
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:07 pm

Are you proposing opening negotiations, comrade? Be careful - Russian Sable export is tightly controlled, may look cute but have been known to be vicious. ;) :twisted:
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby scottgeller » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:09 pm

No....BB Sue.......marry me first !!
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby lemur » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:26 pm

marry me and i will provide you a stock of frozen panatomic-x.

edit: and kodak HIE.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:42 pm

This thread is rapidly becoming an operetta.
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Savannah » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:58 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:This thread is rapidly becoming an operetta.


*dies of consumption*
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Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby ygmir » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:00 pm

Savannah wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:This thread is rapidly becoming an operetta.


*dies of consumption*


TB........or not TB................
That.....is consumption.
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