Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby inthecolumbiagorge » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:57 pm

TomServo wrote:Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY

A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
Image

..just a thought..


We do this for a few different music festivals, Coachella, Sasquatch, and in a smaller way for some of the smaller NW music fests. Last year at Coachella we brought tents, bedding, air mattresses, and solar lights for 56 people that were flying in from distant states and various countries, and we hauled it all from WA state to Indio, CA as well as back again. I got all the gear for next to nothing in the winter months, mostly from Craigslist and second hand. Of course nearly everyone we have loaned gear to have become good friends and now we have a large group of people from all over the world really that are important people in our lives. We will be offering at least a few tents (15-20) and bedding to people flying in for Burning Man this year as well, but I would be very happy to help out with something like this in a bigger way. If anyone wants to join forces let me know and we can figure out how large the need is and how difficult it would be to fulfill that need. Otherwise we will just do it in our little way for those that we can.
User avatar
inthecolumbiagorge
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Columbia Gorge

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby eb0502 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:57 am

TruDat wrote:I like how people are posting $150-$200 a head as numbers for camp dues..... You guys are way way off for Playaskool

It was $2000 per RV and $600 for a tent.....

Seriously 2k for grid, food and fluffing.....

Deny it.... I dare you


wait - what?
even i dont find that believable, can you prove this?

60 RV's x 2000$ = 120k

Headmaster Janus :arrow: :idea: :!: :?:



edit --- i find it strange their camp fees are not listed anywhere - no website, not on the group.... no where.
eb0502
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:29 am

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:02 am

DrYes wrote:
Trishntek wrote:. Camps with placement are expected to offer interactivity to the community.


I don't disagree, but why the sudden uproar this year? Green Tortoise, for instance, has been placed for many years (if not on Esplanade), and even got allocated a batch of tickets this year (as of a couple of weeks ago, they still had tickets at the $390 price if you go with them, in fact) and they offer no interactivity to the community.


Yes DrYes, Maybe my ticketless peeps go with the green turtle and then just bail the second they hit the playa, and Viola our camp "MOM" gets in (she didn't win a fucking ticket!) and a handful of others (some eplayans...gonna PM them NOW!) thanks, it might just work. 8)

Oh yea, almost forgot... Pitchforks and Torches! Arrrrg!
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
User avatar
moonrise
 
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Silver Circle; Reno, Tahoe, Vegas

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby stinkyfoot » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:30 am

TomServo wrote:Image


I think I'll just leave this here.
stinkyfoot
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby PapaBear2120 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:49 am

Had an interesting (drunken) conversation with a PnPer that camped with us last year. He was super last minute, a buddy of his was camping with us and asked to have him on board. We still hadn't reached our maximum so we said sure, it'll be this much in camp dues, and he joined up. I honestly barely remembered him till he showed up at a party the other night and one of my coords told him that bringing an RV was cheating. (I don't really want to get back on to that topic btw. I remember his RV, it was a old piece of shit he'd picked up, not a fully stocked rental).

Anyway, I said, "Let's not talk about the RV, let's talk about how you participated in the camp. Did you run the bar? Did you help in the kitchen? Did you help tear down?"

His response, "I did a little here and there, but really? No, I didn't do shit. But I want to next time."

The conversation went on and the basis of his communication was that because he'd jump on so last minute and everything had been done, he just didn't feel like he needed to put a lot of energy in. All the work parties had been done, everything had been built, most of the shifts had been scheduled. The important thing is that he WANTED to the next time he went to the Burn and joined our camp. Camping with us, seeing how we work, made him want to participate.

This little story, I hope is a bit of a ray of light. It requires the camps that choose to or inadvertently allow PnPers to be the model that will push these people to want to shift from tourism to participation.

There hasn't been many posts from theme camps on here talking about their experiences within their camps. Really only a handful of different voices.

Theme camps that haven't posted on this topic yet, what do you do to integrate people that might join thinking they won't have to do anything but just enjoy the hard work you put in?

I'm known as the guy who will make you cry, while the other head coord will make you feel better afterwards. It's a role I took a on. Each year, we get more and more people returning that want to work hard and less and less that want to use us. Through creating Camp guides and making sure people understand what we do, how we participate, and what campers roles are to create an interactive theme camp, I've had to do less yelling and more loving. (I truly dig the dichotomy of love and asshole on the Playa, no other festival has that in quite the same way!)

How do you do it?

p.s. those quotes aren't verbatim, that conversation happened while fully trashed at 6am.
I'm only an asshole on the Playa. Especially when you give me a megaphone.
User avatar
PapaBear2120
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby stinkyfoot » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:58 am

cosmicgiggle wrote:All this talk of commodification and drawing lines, etc misses a particularly important point that was made back at the start of this thread; namely that the EXPERIENCE of bm is a shared resource amongst the totality of the community, both at is core and equally at its fringes.


This idea of "effort put in = reward earned" was a central tenet that everyone from BMORG to virgin could relate to in a very tangible way. It was a shared value that was the foundation of the principles that the community would eventually adopt.


Then I suppose something changed, somehow, along the way. The idea that you could use your art, your camp, your friends, etc to make a buck *behind* the back of the bmorg started to seep into the community. Make no mistake, there are members of the community who are not sincere in their efforts...people who want all of us to continue to make the event incredible so that they can benefit in whatever way as they see fit.


In some unsettling way, it is at that point that you may understand that your art, your costume, your camp, your naked body, etc is somehow being co-opted by another burner who has sold you out...and who also never asked you if it was ok to do it in the first place.


Is this considered progress?


You make a lot of excellent points about the potential ethical pitfalls of this PnP business model, I highlighted a few key phrases here so I could respond to you. Essentially, I understand that you are saying that being part of the community through effort is the best way to get to the core experience of Burning Man, that the curated committed interactions provided by some members of the community to select clients can never match the quality of interactions found through one's own effort and that any attempt the commoditize this culture, first of all, strips the experience of it's key intrinsic value and is also potentially ridiculously exploitative.

I am so in agreement with you. I want to address some of the subjects you bring up though.

Members of the community who want to use Burning Man to make a buck.

I get that for a lot of burners who do it simply for the love would consider this akin to eating babies because you hear the meat is leaner. But I think that given that we live in a society that affords certain people very few opportunities to do something they love for a living, the fact that some people search for ways to make a career off Burning Man doesn't shock me in the least. Disregarding the potential ethical problems that arise with the practice in the form that it takes now, the fact that some people would go to the event and think, 'hey, I'd like to find a career in this so I can spend my work time doing something I love,' is just so obvious.

What if the future of the org isn't specifically in festivities but in supporting the community in on a broader societal scale? I'm really talking about the stewardship of organizations like Burners Without Borders or the Black Rock Arts Foundation. What if Burning Man was about things like opening up creative career pathways in the information age? They're saying right now that schools need more creativity, that workers who come out of college don't have the skills they need to thrive in the 21st century workplace. I think the shame is not that some people make a buck off Burning Man, I think the shame is that there aren't more ways to do it than babysitting some rich folk out on the playa during the event. Which brings me to my next topic.

Given that the non-commodified experience is the thing that makes Burning Man more than a big party in a really unpleasant environment, who's exploiting who when someone pays?

I don't think that wealthy people pay a lot of money to camp at Burning Man so that they can take their monetary privileged and lord it all over the largely middle class group of people who make up the bulk of the event and I don't think that many of them go to gawk at the spectacle. I really don't. I think, like everyone else, they go there to experience Burning Man.

If that was so, most Burner Vacation Packages wouldn't include things like silly costumes, bikes and mutant vehicle rides. Who's trying to emulate who there? Who are the people who first came back from the playa with stories of the dust, the outrageous transportation, all the crazy unique people? Who do you think is really out of his comfort zone when he straps on a furry vest/hat combo and rides off into the chaos that makes up BRC? The playa experience is fucking humbling no matter what socioeconomic class you come from.

But how you cope with the scary parts is always going to look different based on where you're at in the default world. It makes sense that a wealthy person who's learned that money buys good experiences in the default world would attempt to find a good experience at Burning Man by paying for it. But, if it turns out that the best of Burning Man is most decidedly not a commodity, then it sounds to me that some people are paying a shitload of money to go out there and find that out. Kind of a bummer really, I'd like everyone considering dropping a wad of cash to stay on the playa to know that even if they do have access to certain luxuries, there are ways to live which will increase the intrinsic value of the experience and there are other ways that isolate them from that value.
stinkyfoot
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:04 am

If you'd been fully trashed at 3, you'd remember the conversation, Papa Bear.
Actually, I think your story is interesting. I think (with my superb understanding of reality from far, far away) that one p&per in a "working" camp (yeah, another term that I just invented, lets keep it for this post, and, if it proves useful, retain it) is probably going to have a "better outcome" than a p&per in a camp of 25% "doers" and 75% p&pers. Also, we can assume that his friend clued him in--at least a little.

Actually, I know I'm one of those people who doesn't like to jump into situations where everyone looks like they know what they are doing. I'm afraid of doing it wrong. So, there's things like that that may play out in these things as well.
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:16 am

Wanna hear from a theme camp?

I'll share my experience with Black Rock Roller Disco. The only thing Plug&Play about that camp, was that we may have tried to save you a spot, if you came in late. A core group goes out on early arrival, to construct the skate floor and main shade structure. The floor consists of one layer of plywood sheets and a top layer of masonite. Each piece has to be arranged, so that the screws holding the floor down bit into solid plywood...not a seam or existing hole. This is a major project and requires several people...meanwhile, the support beams and whatnot are placed, to support the massive piece of shade cloth. Naturally, repairs are constantly needed. I don't know how they do the bar now, but I was normally left with whatever was available after the set up. My last year with the camp, I resurrected a destroyed EZ-up for shade over the bar. As the week wears on, minor problems are solved by endless construction projects. EVERYBODY in the camp is responsible for watching out for each other and each others stuff. EVERYBODY is required to keep an eye out for loose screws on the skate floor. We all payed a camp due of about $75 to help cover the cost of new masonite, plywood, etc..in addition to fund raising events throughout the year. We ALL pitched in, and at the end of the day we all enjoyed the fruits of our labor, as did all our visitors.

The camp itself, is the only thing ready to go, for camp mates. As far as their own personal tent, van, whatever...that was up to them to set up. AS IT SHOULD BE!
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby some seeing eye » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:20 am

@PapaBear2120
Nice one. i think the first year requires more structure for camp duties, like "let's do X together".
@stinkyfoot
I've come to think of BM as a tool for creative thinking outside the event itself. As such, the potential for BM participants for worldchanging is far from being realized. The examples you cite BWB and BRAF are a start. Having BM parties year round or regionals is not worldchanging.
@badger
Objective measures. I don't have a problem with Playaskool. The talks idea good. Apparently they failed LNT but got a second chance. I would go for a combination of LNT and the secret shopper participation inspectors, as well as a written participation self assessment post event. For MV's: public service, not private islands, though I don't have my hopes up. Maybe each MV should be required to schedule a 6 hour shift supporting the disabled camp, or touring the local community leaders the ORG brings in as tourists.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion
User avatar
some seeing eye
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Location: The Oregon
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby PapaBear2120 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:25 am

I remember the conversation, just can't be held accountable for how verbatim my post was :)

I was certainly a little bit afraid to start talking about my theme camp on here. I'll be the last person to say my camp does everything right. What is "right" anyway? But that's what I'm trying to call out here by asking what other camps have done to deal with this problem.

I purposefully strayed away from the topic of camps that work on a for-profit business model or have
theCryptofishist wrote:25% "doers" and 75% p&pers.


Maybe bringing up solutions to these problems can lead to a loose model that BMORG could recommend to camps. I still think regulation will be nigh on impossible. But with a list of "10 Principals to be a Theme Camp" or some such thing, camps can then be held accountable in future years for how far they strayed from being interactive and open to guests vs. private and catering to clients.

TomServo wrote:Wanna hear from a theme camp?

EVERYBODY in the camp is responsible for watching out for each other and each others stuff. EVERYBODY is required to keep an eye out for loose screws on the skate floor. We all payed a camp due of about $75 to help cover the cost of new masonite, plywood, etc..in addition to fund raising events throughout the year. We ALL pitched in, and at the end of the day we all enjoyed the fruits of our labor, as did all our visitors.

The camp itself, is the only thing ready to go, for camp mates. As far as their own personal tent, van, whatever...that was up to them to set up. AS IT SHOULD BE!


Fuck yeah, TomServo! But you're one of the strongest voices on this thread right now. Where's all the other theme camps? I cordially invite more voices on the subject!
I'm only an asshole on the Playa. Especially when you give me a megaphone.
User avatar
PapaBear2120
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Stickygreen » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:44 am

Headmaster Janus wrote:I have actually gone through and read this entire blog now a couple of times, really pondering all comments and believe that we, collectively, are all one thing: passionate about what we believe Burning Man IS and SHOULD be.


Really..?

SO you then read where I and Lemur asked you to make the financial record of your non profit organization public? but yet ignored it..?

my request was on page 5, let me re-post it again for you to see..


lemur wrote:
Headmaster Janus wrote:
Let me describe Play)A(Skool to you so perhaps it frames how our Plug and Play camp works. We are a NOT FOR PROFIT organization. Our books are open to anyone in our camp who requests to see them, as well as to the Burning Man Organization.


Im not a member of your camp and not the LLC. Can I look at your financial records?




Stickygreen wrote:Still waiting to see those financial records.....

Post that shit, make it public if you're so proud of your not for profit-ness...


So again, I ask if you are so proud of Playaskool being a not for profit, then please share the financial statements of your organization.

maybe you don't understand what I'm asking for, so I will lead by example. This : http://thegreatdustoff.com/financial-summary is a financial summary of a regional decompression event that I produced in conjunction with a local non profit organization. I invested about 140 hours of my time, and received NO financial compensation for doing so, just the reward of a job well done.

So I ask again, please add some legitimacy to your claim that Playa skool is a not for profit, and put up your numbers.
)'(
User avatar
Stickygreen
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:17 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:45 am

inthecolumbiagorge wrote:
TomServo wrote:Was thinking on alternatives for International Burners...for whom hauling gear overseas would be a logistical problem.. This is NOT 100% Radical Self Reliance, but given the circumstances, seems a fair option, and allows these folks to experience the survival camping, that so many of us live for. Plus, it also gave me another excuse to create a logo on windows.
POUND & PLAY

A camp dedicated to providing gear and tools for International Burners. NO MONEY is ever exchanged...just a name and a hug. Gear can be picked up on playa Tools loaned out for setting camp. Assistance provided for disabled Burners. All gear loans would be pre-arranged. A hug and a handshake, promising the gear and tools will be returned.
Image

..just a thought..


We do this for a few different music festivals, Coachella, Sasquatch, and in a smaller way for some of the smaller NW music fests. Last year at Coachella we brought tents, bedding, air mattresses, and solar lights for 56 people that were flying in from distant states and various countries, and we hauled it all from WA state to Indio, CA as well as back again. I got all the gear for next to nothing in the winter months, mostly from Craigslist and second hand. Of course nearly everyone we have loaned gear to have become good friends and now we have a large group of people from all over the world really that are important people in our lives. We will be offering at least a few tents (15-20) and bedding to people flying in for Burning Man this year as well, but I would be very happy to help out with something like this in a bigger way. If anyone wants to join forces let me know and we can figure out how large the need is and how difficult it would be to fulfill that need. Otherwise we will just do it in our little way for those that we can.


Thank you for the interest, inthecolumbiagorge! This year is up in the air...really depending on whether or not I get a ticket. Should that happen, I want to go full bore with this theme camp. Obviously, the more people involved the better!So, yeah, if things start to work out, I'd like to collaborate. I still have donated material from the "International Burners Package" of years prior, and am always on the look out for important gear. If this becomes a reality, I will be posting this in a new thread to help recruit. Any input and ideas would be great! I have met some really dear friends, from overseas as well..and I see the logistical problems they're faced with.
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:13 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Pink and I pretty much expressed how our camp operates in previous posts. Retrofrolic is relatively small (30-35) total with 8-10 involved with planning, setup and strike.

Out of my own pocket, I provide a 45'X60' shade structure, kitchen shelter and appliances, lighting, signage, solar power and genset, evap pond, furniture and music system for our "activities" area and the transportation for all these things.

Our bartender and one or two of his pals provide the bar, the booze, the mixers and everything that goes along with it.

Another provides a second solar array and technical knowledge for managing power supplies and demand.

Everyone in our camp provides food, fuel, their own shelter, bedding and personal comforts. Everyone is expected to spend 3 hours per day working in the camp. Everyone takes a turn at preparation, cooking or cleaning up our one communal meal per day. Everyone brings extra fuel, water, beer, soft drinks, furniture, game prizes, baby wipes, paper towels and a playful attitude. All of us donate to the daily ice run. All of us take part in making sure our guests are welcomed and served according to their proclivities.

My philosophy is simple. Our camp is a facility for anyone and everyone to discover sensual activities in a safe, fun and unpretentious environment.

ETA: I guess it is necessary to mention we DO NOT CHARGE ANY DUES!
Last edited by Trishntek on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!
User avatar
Trishntek
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm

PapaBear2120 wrote:I remember the conversation, just can't be held accountable for how verbatim my post was :)

I was certainly a little bit afraid to start talking about my theme camp on here. I'll be the last person to say my camp does everything right. What is "right" anyway? But that's what I'm trying to call out here by asking what other camps have done to deal with this problem.

I purposefully strayed away from the topic of camps that work on a for-profit business model or have
theCryptofishist wrote:25% "doers" and 75% p&pers.


Maybe bringing up solutions to these problems can lead to a loose model that BMORG could recommend to camps. I still think regulation will be nigh on impossible. But with a list of "10 Principals to be a Theme Camp" or some such thing, camps can then be held accountable in future years for how far they strayed from being interactive and open to guests vs. private and catering to clients.

Tone is so difficult on the internet. My remark about the conversation was very gentle teasing. Maybe I should have put in a ";)" to make that clear. I'm sorry if I hurt you. And I think that talking the specifics is always a good thing. Abstract isn't good for ferreting out any but hte most obvious effects. Plus, that's the only conversation of that type we have in here. Thank you for sharing that with us.
(I don't think any camp can get it right 100%. Besides, there are more than one value that is "right" in camping at burningman.)
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby PapaBear2120 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:47 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
PapaBear2120 wrote:I remember the conversation, just can't be held accountable for how verbatim my post was :)

I was certainly a little bit afraid to start talking about my theme camp on here. I'll be the last person to say my camp does everything right. What is "right" anyway? But that's what I'm trying to call out here by asking what other camps have done to deal with this problem.

I purposefully strayed away from the topic of camps that work on a for-profit business model or have
theCryptofishist wrote:25% "doers" and 75% p&pers.


Maybe bringing up solutions to these problems can lead to a loose model that BMORG could recommend to camps. I still think regulation will be nigh on impossible. But with a list of "10 Principals to be a Theme Camp" or some such thing, camps can then be held accountable in future years for how far they strayed from being interactive and open to guests vs. private and catering to clients.

Tone is so difficult on the internet. My remark about the conversation was very gentle teasing. Maybe I should have put in a ";)" to make that clear. I'm sorry if I hurt you. And I think that talking the specifics is always a good thing. Abstract isn't good for ferreting out any but hte most obvious effects. Plus, that's the only conversation of that type we have in here. Thank you for sharing that with us.
(I don't think any camp can get it right 100%. Besides, there are more than one value that is "right" in camping at burningman.)


I agree, tone is very difficult on the internet, or even writing in general. I've got a piece of paper that tells me I'm a writer, but I'm far from amazing and there are plenty of people in the past, present, and future that are and will always be better than me who don't have a silly piece of paper. I wasn't hurt by what you said, but thank you for the sentiment! Those inane little smiley faces certainly aid to convey playfulness over snarkiness; however, I wish we all, including myself, knew how to convey ourselves without the use of them. That's really not the point of why I'm replying, just wanted you to know you didn't hurt my feelings.

Thanks to everyone who has started to explain the specifics of how they avoid PnP, even if you're just repeating yourself. Let's hear some more!
I'm only an asshole on the Playa. Especially when you give me a megaphone.
User avatar
PapaBear2120
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:54 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby pink » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:24 pm

Here's one I found from someone claiming to be an 'affiliate' of PlayaSkool. If you google G20, you can check out their Facebook page too.

http://eventful.com/reno/events/g360-dr ... 31567411-9
$1,150.50 & $2560.50

"Including Festival Ticket", but when you get to the website it says you have to buy your own ticket. Must have changed after the lottery took away that part of their biz model.

*I couldn't find the email to send the link to: Used the words 'Burning Man' & the Man image all over the place.
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!
pink
 
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Location: sacramento
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby stinkyfoot » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:37 pm

some seeing eye wrote:@stinkyfoot
I've come to think of BM as a tool for creative thinking outside the event itself. As such, the potential for BM participants for worldchanging is far from being realized. The examples you cite BWB and BRAF are a start. Having BM parties year round or regionals is not worldchanging.


I also consider Burning Man to be significant for creatives and creative circles year round. BWB and BARF are a start, but I attribute the relative dearth of similar projects, not to lack of motivation, but to lack of momentum for those kinds of projects in the default world. The parties are evidence of burners wanting to take what they've found on the playa into the default world, if there are a lot of parties it's because the parties and the music are the easiest thing to get out there.

So if you read my posts in this thread you'll see me expressing opinions about PnP camps that aren't widely shared and this is because I feel that incorporating some of the types of organizations that are unique to the event into the over all organization of the event is part of the path for Burning Man to expand, not physically, but culturally and philosophically.

Edit: That's something to think about. Regardless of the fact that PnP's are kind of annoying in what they represent, they are a type of business that has evolved from burners, to support burners because of Burning Man. More reason to bring them into the fold instead of going on an exclusivity witch hunt.
Last edited by stinkyfoot on Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stinkyfoot
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby DrYes » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:39 pm

moonrise wrote:
Yes DrYes, Maybe my ticketless peeps go with the green turtle and then just bail the second they hit the playa, and Viola our camp "MOM" gets in (she didn't win a fucking ticket!) and a handful of others (some eplayans...gonna PM them NOW!) thanks, it might just work. 8)



My fiance and I considered doing this, but decided that the limits on baggage you can bring with GT didn't make it feasible for us. I also prefer to go early entry and GT arrives earliest Tuesday night, pretty much at the peak of entry line hell. My friends with them last year said it was quite horrible - the driver wouldn't permit them off the bus or turn on the air-con, so it was quite a sweltering hot experience for them.
Burning Man 2013 video || Burning Man 2013 photos
Burning Man 2012 video
Burning Man 2011 video

"We'll never leave, look at us now, so in love with the way we are."
User avatar
DrYes
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:22 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Camp Tasty Bits (w/ the Stimulus Tree)

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby TomServo » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:54 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:So if you read my posts in this thread you'll see me expressing opinions about PnP camps that aren't widely shared and this is because I feel that incorporating some of the types of organizations that are unique to the event into the over all organization of the event is part of the path for Burning Man to expand, not physically, but culturally and philosophically.


No, it's not. Cashing in on Burning Man is fucking LOW. And, in the manner that these scumbags are doing it..by renting out pre built villas for lazy fucks..is a sick joke! Literally, someone joked about this 10 or so years ago.
anything worth doing..is worth overdoing

Vor Gebrauch Sprengkapsel einsetzen
User avatar
TomServo
 
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: BloodBath&Beyond

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Elorrum » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:56 pm

stinkyfoot wrote: Regardless of the fact that PnP's are kind of annoying in what they represent, they are a type of business that has evolved from burners, to support burners because of Burning Man. More reason to bring them into the fold instead of going on an exclusivity witch hunt.

This, and the request of Papabear to have "new principles for camps" so they know who's in violation, are such disingenuous violations of no commerce. Why not just open it all the way up, and say, oh, you know, the event evolved beyond that. If some can make a buck, and wink wink it's alright, then why pretend it's a principle at all? It's just a game of who gets down first.

As to spreading the principles beyond BRC to the greater world, being a good reason to make a buck off folks, what hypocrisy.
What's the name of the act? The Aristocrats.
User avatar
Elorrum
 
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby knowmad » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:18 pm

We had P-n-P Neighbors last year.
They Had No Camp Sighn. (They called themselves "Pandora")
They Staked Claim on 40 Feet of prime corner Property. 8:th and B That on wendsday became a parking lot.
They were copnstantly in our camp loung chairs to the point that we had to make a sighn that told them that We were not part of "Them"
They ranover a campmates tent while leaving sunday, destroying nearly everything. oh and then drove off with the Tent still stuck under the car.

Total Fail.
............................................Image...........................................
Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri
User avatar
knowmad
 
Posts: 3304
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:33 pm
Location: Puget Sound
Burning Since: 2009
Camp Name: 09-11 Specialist Clan
12 BWS BDV/DPB

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby 5280MeV » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:50 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:So if you read my posts in this thread you'll see me expressing opinions about PnP camps that aren't widely shared and this is because I feel that incorporating some of the types of organizations that are unique to the event into the over all organization of the event is part of the path for Burning Man to expand, not physically, but culturally and philosophically.

Edit: That's something to think about. Regardless of the fact that PnP's are kind of annoying in what they represent, they are a type of business that has evolved from burners, to support burners because of Burning Man. More reason to bring them into the fold instead of going on an exclusivity witch hunt.


I don't think that it is fair to invoke inclusion here. I don't think that any concept of inclusion - either the one written on the organizational principles, or the cultural notion, was ever intended to apply to commercial organizations, just people themselves. The website states that "Anyone may be a part of Burning Man," it does not state that any commercial organization may be a part of Burning Man. The CEO of Coca-Cola is more than welcome to come share breakfast with me on the playa. The Coca-Cola corporation is not.

I think that it is also worth quoting an interview with Larry Harvey from 2000 which better states the cultural sense of what I think that the LLC has tried to get across in this idea of "radical inclusion":

I think when anyone participates they're cool. Any other standard is a form of affectation. We're radically inclusive. Far too much time is wasted in subcultures feeling superior to outsiders. I've never felt comfortable with in-groups or with the secret totems and subtle signs that are used to exclude people.

http://www.burningman.com/whatisburning ... _vie4.html

There are no secret totems or subtle signs being used here. It is pretty obvious what is being asked: try to take care of yourself, and don't buy or sell anything.

There is more to it though - the idea of no in-crowd. No special cool people. Think that you are too old? too out of shape? too conventional? too boring? too poor? too small town? Think again. You are invited to the party. That is the magic of it.

Here is a PnP website that offers a very troubling thing regarding inclusion, they sell you

Access to The Best Art Cars on The Playa

http://stiglitz.com/arts-and-culture/g3 ... -man-2012/

Everyone has access to the best art cars on the playa. The DMV expects that ALL Mutant Vehicles will offer rides as gifts. This is a rule, a matter of policy. If you have to gain access to an MV, then exclusion is at work.

This is among the things that I find most troubling about this whole discussion - it appears that people are invoking the idea of inclusion to try to promote a system of exclusion.
Image
User avatar
5280MeV
 
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:32 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby BBadger » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:45 pm

So as I read the different camp policies, participation rules, and overall approach to things above it is becoming clear to me that finding a good definition of what is "participation worthy" is going to be very hard.

My own story resembles that of the "PnPer" Papabear mentions, where my friends and I joined a camp we knew via one of the friends, arrived Thursday about 1AM, and for all intents and purposes were not involved in the camp setup and such. We were the Thursday douchebags as I label such arrivals. Yeah, we were required to cook one meal for the camp (sub-groups must for one night) and we brought some booze and other stuff, but as far as camp involvement was concerned, we didn't do much. At tear-down, we did did help out the camp coordinators with a bit of cleanup because others had left early, and they were happy with that.

Anyway, long story short, we didn't, and didn't feel like we contributed much to the camp that year. Also the people at the camp didn't expect us back. Still, after that year we were filled with that "holy spirit" from what we did experience that first year, and wanted to participate far more the coming year. What more, we all felt that we really didn't get much "camp" experience that first year, and that we were just seeing the sights so to speak. The next year we got very much involved with camp stuff, to the point that after that second BM, the people in the camp felt we were one of the most important parts of the camp that year.

So I have the same expectations of Burgins, and even of PnPers. Many will arrive as "spectators" or "plug and players" but many will not leave as such. Let them come, so that they may learn our ways.

How you arrive and camp, whether a PnPer or a seasoned backpacker, it doesn't matter much to me. It's how you leave the playa, and how you come back that matters.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.
User avatar
BBadger
 
Posts: 3964
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:37 am
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Annfan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:05 pm

Eventful.com and stiglitz.com (and some others) say they are part of playskool camp. Hummmmmmm

xoxox
Annfan
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:42 am

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby moonrise » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:06 pm

DrYes wrote:
moonrise wrote:
Yes DrYes, Maybe my ticketless peeps go with the green turtle and then just bail the second they hit the playa, and Viola our camp "MOM" gets in (she didn't win a fucking ticket!) and a handful of others (some eplayans...gonna PM them NOW!) thanks, it might just work. 8)



My fiance and I considered doing this, but decided that the limits on baggage you can bring with GT didn't make it feasible for us. I also prefer to go early entry and GT arrives earliest Tuesday night, pretty much at the peak of entry line hell. My friends with them last year said it was quite horrible - the driver wouldn't permit them off the bus or turn on the air-con, so it was quite a sweltering hot experience for them.


"Ten Four" DrYes. It's a dead end.
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
User avatar
moonrise
 
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Silver Circle; Reno, Tahoe, Vegas

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby LegendZero » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:56 pm

A little off topic maybe but I am beyond excited to visit retrofrolic on the playa!
LegendZero
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:21 pm

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby pink » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:12 pm

And we'll be damned excited to have you!

(did that come out right?...oh crap, I think I'm painting myself into a corner...oh whatever, nice to see ya!)
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!
pink
 
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Location: sacramento
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby Trishntek » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:17 pm

pink wrote:And we'll be damned excited to have you!

(did that come out right?...oh crap, I think I'm painting myself into a corner...oh whatever, nice to see ya!)


We'll be gentle,,, won't we pink?
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!
User avatar
Trishntek
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby pink » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:10 am

:twisted: :twisted:
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!
pink
 
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am
Location: sacramento
Burning Since: 2005
Camp Name: Retrofrolic

Re: Plug & Play Camping

Postby stinkyfoot » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:37 am

5280MeV wrote:There is more to it though - the idea of no in-crowd. No special cool people.


I guess the difference between you and me is that when I saw PnP campers on the playa, I didn't think they looked like special cool people, I thought they looked like frightened spazzes. And that's where I come to the conclusion that if some people need to pay a lot of money to get babysat their first time in BRC, well, not exactly ideal, but I understand the logic. And if experienced burners make money for babysitting them, that's cool, better than outside contractors coming in who have no idea how people do it on the playa.

But since there's no oversight onto this whole aspect of camping right now, how the hell is anyone supposed to moderate anything?

If you want the entire BRC to be taken over by RV's and walled off camps then you'd better keep preaching for the org to ignore and exclude these PnP camps, because, I don't know if you noticed, that people do what they're going to do at this festival and no one really gives a shit unless you're doing drugs or making a scene.
stinkyfoot
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:48 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest