Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby unjonharley » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:25 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:I didn't see any hippies at Occupy San Jose. Lots of retired people and laid-off techies.



They don't pepper spray dirty hippies.. They are to nasty for the police to touch after.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby kitoconnell » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:04 pm

Hey everyone, my new site is now live for those who are interested in this movement and finding ways Burners can help:
http://occupyburners.org/

Our first official post just live:
http://occupyburners.org/welcome/

We welcome submissions -- writing, personal stories, photos, etc. -- from all Burners who support the Occupation.

We are also on Twitter and Facebook now:
http://twitter.com/occupyburners
http://facebook.com/occupyburners

Join us! Occupy Everywhere!
Kit O'Connell ~ kitoconnell.com
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Elderberry » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:14 pm

I'm proud to be swimming in that cesspool; and from someone that's been to BM, the encampments do look a lot like camps at BM, especially those in the outer rings. (Except for the fire and art and all the things outside of the tents that make BM BM.)
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jkisha wrote:Their purpose has been stated and cited many times in the main thread. Do some leg work. Oh, and get your ass out to an occupation. Otherwise, you know not of what you speak, and I'm out of this thread. KeneticV is right.



I've been to zuccotti a dozen times before and after the eviction, and I will be back again, so I think I fit your definition of someone who is allowed to have an opinion. That said pretty much every skeptical or anti ows comment in this thread is true.the people protesting are nowhere near the 99%, which in any case is a fictional construct straight out of alinsky's rules for radicals. They are mostly shifltess drug addicts, leftover hippies and indoctrinated college kids who never thought about repaying their student loans. And don't forget the large number of homeless people. Most have no point, and those that do are not representative of a large minority, let alone the majority. Bloomberg did the movement a favor by shutting it down.

I can't tell you how happy I am to see so that so many burners have their eyes appropriately open to this cesspool of human waste that is attempting to force its vision (or lack thereof) on the country. I just assumed that burners in general would be overwhelmingly sympathetic to ows. Politics is not something I talk about in black rock city so how would I know otherwise?

nothing has pissed me off more in recent weeks than people who know nothing more about burning man than the pictures they've seen on the internet telling me how much ows looks like it.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby kitoconnell » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:14 pm

A little bit more about why I am starting OccupyBurners:
http://kitoconnell.com/occupy-burners/

Please join us, and use your playa-born skills to make a better world.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby BlackRockCityPimp » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:58 am

kitoconnell wrote:Temperature check among those interested in Occupy:

If I started a mailing list/blog/twitter account, OccupyBurners, for coordinating efforts between Burners and the Occupation on a global level, would you be interested in joining and participating? Feel free to contact me via private message or email, kitoconnell@pobox.com.


I did 2 months amongst 20 different occupy sites. I am currently working on the next phase so I no longer occupy. I will however be at the various Direct Actions coming up to stand in solidarity with my brothers and sisters across the globe. I have been an activist for 20 years now so I was protesting the globalists before occupy started and will continue to do so. I had a credit union before occupy yet I still hit the streets to raise awareness and get people to go local and non profit. I am planning on a themecamp for this upcoming burn to connect occupiers, supporters of the movement, and fellow anons. Nothing too heavy, just a place to connect and share experiences when resting up with a lil protest art for the masses to appreciate. Maybe a mini occupation of first camp to protest the lack of radical inclusion, a protest at center camp for violating the no commodification principle.

PM me and chk the thread in themecamp listing. I dont do facebook and just recently got twitter but I skype under the same name I am using here.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Bob » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:46 am

Given the proliferation of raver, Deadhead, massage, sex worker and other such torn-from-the-pages-of-your-boring-life theme camps, it would be no surprise to see an Occupy camp of activist <drink> oh-so-earnest Occupiers. I say go for it, the drum circles w/ political chants might drown out the techno mashups of Sugar Magnolia.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Bob » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:25 am

Oops, wrong thread. Nevermind.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:20 pm

Gr8ful Deadmau5...


enjoy.



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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Bob » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:38 pm

Please... anything post-Skull-Fuck is genuine Grateful Dead?
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby jerroc » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:22 pm

OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby BlackRockCityPimp » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:29 pm

jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.


Most OWS people do work and pay taxes.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby jerroc » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:39 pm

I'm sure some do pay taxes but with the current federal tax code they will get most of it back at the end of the year. the poor get good tax breaks and benifits just like the rich.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:07 am

BlackRockCityPimp wrote:
jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.


Most OWS people do work and pay taxes.

I don't know where you've been for the past couple of years, but there simply aren't enough jobs for everyone in this country to be employed. Sooner or later that's going to lead to restlessness. There was a reason the 1% of Ancient Rome provided bread and circuses...
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby ygmir » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:09 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
BlackRockCityPimp wrote:
jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.


Most OWS people do work and pay taxes.

I don't know where you've been for the past couple of years, but there simply aren't enough jobs for everyone in this country to be employed. Sooner or later that's going to lead to restlessness. There was a reason the 1% of Ancient Rome provided bread and circuses...



good point.
Another, is, (and I don't remember the figure) but, you need a certain level of unemployment, for a healthy economy.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:24 am

It's true that since the 70s heyday of "stagflation" (sorry, Stag Camp) we've been arranging our economy around the precept that if we don't have full employment you won't get the competition for workers, and therefore the wage increases that lead to more inflation. (Note: We have had steady inflation the past forty years, it's just later than it might have been.)
Still, this is a policy that troubles me. Basically, it means that we have a group of people who live in economic and social misery in order that the rest can live in some to quite a level of comfort. And if you've been paying attention to the discourse about the poor, you can see that this is not appreciated and, in fact, they are reviled for it.
I don't know that this policy is the only or the best way to decrease inflation. I hope that whatever methods we choose, we don't do something so blatantly vicious and destructive, and then blame the victim.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby ygmir » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:30 am

theCryptofishist wrote:It's true that since the 70s heyday of "stagflation" (sorry, Stag Camp) we've been arranging our economy around the precept that if we don't have full employment you won't get the competition for workers, and therefore the wage increases that lead to more inflation. (Note: We have had steady inflation the past forty years, it's just later than it might have been.)
Still, this is a policy that troubles me. Basically, it means that we have a group of people who live in economic and social misery in order that the rest can live in some to quite a level of comfort. And if you've been paying attention to the discourse about the poor, you can see that this is not appreciated and, in fact, they are reviled for it.
I don't know that this policy is the only or the best way to decrease inflation. I hope that whatever methods we choose, we don't do something so blatantly vicious and destructive, and then blame the victim.



yeah, I understand what you're saying........but also consider, that in "normal" times, the "unemployed" is a dynamic population.......folks finding and losing jobs, all the times. So, it's not a stagnant pool of folks (another pool exists for the chronically unemployed, usually due to issues)

and, human nature, and societies being what they are, it'd seem very "Pollyanna" to suggest, there will never be a segment of poor in any culture/society.
It's more how they are treated, that matters, IMHO.
And one thing, is to try to help, and enthuse, people to pull themselves out of poverty, if at all possible.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby Elderberry » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:31 am

jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.

Same was said about Jesus, by some. So let's go out and kill the messengers, even though you agree with the message. I'll never understand that logic.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby A Jester » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:05 pm

unjonharley wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:
BBadger wrote:Still, with the glut of marginally school-educated people at OWS...

Are the results of your survey published online somewhere? I'd be interested in seeing it.


People interviewed from Occupy Portland could barely hold saliva..

And no one can tell any one what the hell they are there for..


Ad hominen attacks aside, and dealing with the fact that it's not a top down organization with one director and a mission statement, I'd say that some very strong messages have come through.

1) the "1%" have too much political power.
2) the bailout(s) may have saved the global economy from melting down, but they actually rewarded the risky behavior that caused it. The moral hazzard which caused the sub-prime meltdown is now more entrenched.
3) it's very fair to increase taxes on millionaires and not increase taxes on the middle class

Without caring whether or not any of us believe in any of these messages, it seems blatant to me that they were not particularly part of the national dialogue before the OWS movement. Just getting number 3 to be discussed is a huge accomplishment, IMO.


pizzamancer wrote:I suppose the biggest reason not to go:

If you take off work for OWS, you won't have enough money to go to Burning Man.


That's what's kept me from doing any real occupying. Well, the not being able to take time off work part, not the money for Burning Man part.



If you think that the OWS movement is useless, then you should be quite satisfied. It won't do anything other than get some cops some overtime.


I do think that actually acting (even if it is just to sit in a park and chant) to attempt to affect some sort of change is a burner-esque trait. I should mention that this trait applies just as much to the Tea Party protests as it does to the OWS protests.

I don't have the energy to find the citations now (maybe someone else does) but I've heard at least two civil rights leaders say that the beginning of the civil rights movement was very similar to the OWS protests. Just a bunch of people who wanted to change a bunch of things. They happened to pick specific things and have sit ins to effect change, but it wasn't like there was a master plan from day one.

In fact, if you think about it, how does sitting at the wrong place at a lunch counter do anything more or less to get laws changed than pitching a tent in a park?


I happen to support the OWS movement. Both because I think that corporations run our political system, and because I feel like the bailout was a major stroke against a free market economy. In a very practical sense, I think the best way to grow our economy is to give more money to the people who spend it as opposed to the people who save it. That's just basic economic theory, but I don't pretend to be an expert.

I would like to say that aside from some of the unnecessarily harsh rhetoric (which is probably more an effect of being on the internet than anything else) I cherish the fact that not all burners are for or against any particular movement. Of course Radical Inclusion itself could possibly attract more liberals (minorities of whatever stripe tend to be more liberal), but I'm glad we have genuinely dissenting views.

I don't watch Fox News myself, but I hope there are Burners who do. I honestly hope we never become a homogeneous community.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby A Jester » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:05 pm

jkisha wrote:
jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.

Same was said about Jesus, by some. So let's go out and kill the messengers, even though you agree with the message. I'll never understand that logic.



Sorry for the double post, but if Jesus hadn't been killed, he wouldn't be nearly as famous.

Just sayin'...
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby Elderberry » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:26 pm

A Jester wrote:
jkisha wrote:
jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.

Same was said about Jesus, by some. So let's go out and kill the messengers, even though you agree with the message. I'll never understand that logic.



Sorry for the double post, but if Jesus hadn't been killed, he wouldn't be nearly as famous.

Just sayin'...


Which is why the more close to killing someone the cops get on their evictions, the stronger OWS becomes.

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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby Elderberry » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:32 pm

jerroc wrote:OWS is a joke. They don't represent the "99%". If they did they would not have the time for this useless protest. Instead they would be working and paying taxes. I agree with what they are saying its just the wrong people saying it.

What sort of convoluted logic is that? You are going to shoot the messenger because you AGREE with the message?! :shock:
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Stree

Postby Elderberry » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:41 pm

ygmir wrote:good point.
Another, is, (and I don't remember the figure) but, you need a certain level of unemployment, for a healthy economy.


Both terms "Economy" (healthy or otherwise" and "Unemployment" as it relates to the economy are extremely complex concepts and even the experts can't quite agree. Here is just an excerpt regarding unemployment as an example"
In demand-based theory, it is possible to abolish cyclical unemployment by increasing the aggregate demand for products and workers. However, eventually the economy hits an "inflation barrier" imposed by the four other kinds of unemployment to the extent that they exist.
Some demand theory economists see the inflation barrier as corresponding to the natural rate of unemployment. The "natural" rate of unemployment is defined as the rate of unemployment that exists when the labour market is in equilibrium and there is pressure for neither rising inflation rates nor falling inflation rates. An alternative technical term for this rate is the NAIRU or the Non-Accelerating Inflation Rate of Unemployment.
No matter what its name, demand theory holds that this means that if the unemployment rate gets "too low," inflation will get worse and worse (accelerate) in the absence of wage and price controls (incomes policies).
One of the major problems with the NAIRU theory is that no one knows exactly what the NAIRU is (while it clearly changes over time). The margin of error can be quite high relative to the actual unemployment rate, making it hard to use the NAIRU in policy-making.
Another, normative, definition of full employment might be called the ideal unemployment rate. It would exclude all types of unemployment that represent forms of inefficiency. This type of "full employment" unemployment would correspond to only frictional unemployment (excluding that part encouraging the McJobs management strategy) and would thus be very low. However, it would be impossible to attain this full-employment target using only demand-side Keynesian stimulus without getting below the NAIRU and suffering from accelerating inflation (absent incomes policies). Training programs aimed at fighting structural unemployment would help here.
To the extent that hidden unemployment exists, it implies that official unemployment statistics provide a poor guide to what unemployment rate coincides with "full employment".
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:35 pm

Did you have to quote all that, jk? Half the board is now snuggled under the NEB.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Ugly Dougly » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:39 pm

What part of TL;DR do you need help understanding? ;)
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Elderberry » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:17 pm

I think that was pretty much the point I was making.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:20 pm

And make it you did. I was underscoring that in an ironic way. There's no excuse for Dougly's comment, but I'm too mature to stick my tongue out at him.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby A Jester » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:05 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lJd2eLG0M&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

This pretty well sums it up for me. And it's sans dirty hippie, so conservatives can listen to it without getting blinded by the patchuli.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:16 pm

A Jester wrote:

This pretty well sums it up for me. And it's sans dirty hippie, so conservatives can listen to it without getting blinded by the patchuli.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby jerroc » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:32 am

When I look at the money spent vs the outcome of the protest so far, its clear to me the protest is tax payer money wasted. The so called messangers are not getting the message across. In this case money talks and bullshit walks. OWS protesters don't represent enough tax payer dollars to be taken serious. I'm at the heart of the middle class and it should be me out there protesting but with the taxes I pay for social programs I simply can't do anything but work. As far as jobs go there are jobs out there they are not middle class jobs and they won't support middle class greedy lifestyle but they will Help pay the bills. Keeping unemployment beiefits going has kept unemployment reports high. The middle class is jumping on the gravy train with the poor. The 1% have the mone the 99% have the markets. You want a real protest than get a job pay with cash don't buy stupid shit like $100 pair of jeans. Keep your money out of banks and buy american when you can.
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Re: Burning Man and Occupy Wall Street

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:40 am

theCryptofishist wrote:And make it you did. I was underscoring that in an ironic way. There's no excuse for Dougly's comment, but I'm too mature to stick my tongue out at him.

Oh, you're no fun anymore.
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