Reducing the line to get in the gate

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby BBadger » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:00 pm

bradtem wrote:The real goal of the process would be to make sure anybody driving an express lane really understands the rules, the contraband, the consequences of breaking them and that they are actually enforced. The money just cements that in their minds -- I paid to be in this lane, so therefore I will work to make sure I don't screw it up and waste my money. It is one of the psychological tricks that is effective on this sort of problem. The express lane would come not just with a privilege but with duties, and the privileges and money would be lost if the duties were not performed.)


OH COME ON. You post something like this and ask why people tell you to "come out and see for yourself" (outside the ivory tower). This is an absolutely naïve if not fundamentally backwards understanding of how extra payment for privilege works. Paying extra to be in the "express lane" cements a notion of entitlement not responsibility. You paid to have that privilege, you didn't earn the right. Responsibility comes from knowing that your special place of privilege is determined by your actions, not how much you laid down to bribe yourself through line.

Express lanes at airports work because of pre-screen, security-checks including background checks. "Expert" lines at airports work because of people who already know the routines and can enable the security checks to operate serially, rather than in parallel, because of no hold-ups. Your sense of an "express lane" accomplishes neither of the goals above. Money does not certify rule compliance, and belonging to an "express lane" doesn't mean you're any faster in unpacking your shit that will be checked--unless you're advocating fewer checks in which case you've accomplished nothing. As stretch80 pointed out: if people were packing responsible ("their duties") in the first place all the lanes would be expert lanes. The only thing a bribe lane does is add an extra lane that costs some money and will have the same type of problems.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Nipple » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:08 pm

junglesmacks wrote:
bradtem wrote:Too bad the openBTS crew decided to switch to custom sims or you could do a phone-in show with people in gate line or even a chat room. (They had to switch to custom sims because the company putting in the external cell towers didn't like the competition, sigh. openBTS was the tool that was making the on-playa-only GSM network for SMS and some voice.)


Yeah.. that's uh.. quite a shame.


(I'm not involved with OpenBTS)

Well... it's also not the story. It's a neat project. The OpenBTS guys make tiny cellsites that can be rapidly deployed and are largely in use in other areas of the world where communications are tightly controlled by the government. The attempt is to democratize communication and put it in the hands of the people. It's also an interesting model for disaster recovery... where you have to build a temporary city for people due to external factors (disaster, uprising, refugees) and get them connected again. Kind of like a Hexayurt model, but with communications. The OpenBTS guys have used the Playa the last couple years as a test bed and proof of concept. The software is open for anyone to take and add on to, which is a really good thing.

I don't know in previous years, what frequencies they were radiating on. For a living, I design and deploy wireless telephone networks for a US Wireless carrier, if they were radiating on frequencies I have license for... I would be VERY unhappy. Not because of competition... but because you're FUCKING UP MY SHIT with INTERFERENCE.

This year, they went to the FCC and got a special license to radiate on the frequencies that are used in China for cellular/wireless phones. In the states, those are DoD bands... BUT they were given license to use them, which is why they went to the ChinaMobile SIMs.

I spent some time talking to the guys. They idea isn't to connect people to the outside world (They don't connect to the PSTN, only internally...the functionality is there, but only the people who run the network can use it) but rather connect people within the city. They were running (when it worked) a "Burner Roulette" line. You dial 777 on the phone, and you're connected to a random person on the Playa with one of these phones. Kind of a neat toy... it'll be interesting to see what they do with it in coming years.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:19 pm

This is where I smile and nod and applaud creation and innovation and agree not to let this digress into a cell phones on the playa discussion. :D
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:21 pm

lemur wrote:
bradtem wrote: Discussing things here does not seem to be a good path to improvement, though the contributions of people who actually work the gate have been valuable.


the chasm between discussions on Eplaya and the decision making parts of the various burning man depts is huge...

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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Rice » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:33 pm

Finally, it is not all gate's fault.

If the extremely un-informed/disorganized/ignorant were publicly ridiculed on BMIR, with friendly reminders and kick-ass music, maybe the lines would start to speed up. Knowing how to get through gate quicky would help everyone's entry into the city.

Maybe I'll see ya working some shifts??

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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Nipple » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:32 pm

junglesmacks wrote:This is where I smile and nod and applaud creation and innovation and agree not to let this digress into a cell phones on the playa discussion. :D


Oh totally...
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:34 pm

So, how many pages will this thread have to take up before it is the internet equivalent of the gate line?
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby bigdane » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:40 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:So, how many pages will this thread have to take up before it is the internet equivalent of the gate line?


well I'm an incoming virgin but I'm beginning to get a feel what the lines might feel like... :lol:

btw when I do arrive at the gate will it piss off the vet behind me in line if I get out and roll on the playa??? :P
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:49 pm

It depends on how many rabbits are caught in the undercarriage of his truck.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Dr Helix » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:03 pm

Help help me!!!!!! I'm being buried alive by a ponderous weight of words with no real solution or outcome. Help me....................
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:09 pm

Dr Helix wrote:Help help me!!!!!! I'm being buried alive by a ponderous weight of words with no real solution or outcome. Help me....................

*hands the Dr all three volumes of Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire*
This should cut through the density of the thread by half.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby bradtem » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:20 am

Nipple wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:
bradtem wrote:Too bad the openBTS crew decided to switch to custom sims or you could do a phone-in show with people in gate line or even a chat room. (They had to switch to custom sims because the company putting in the external cell towers didn't like the competition, sigh. openBTS was the tool that was making the on-playa-only GSM network for SMS and some voice.)


Yeah.. that's uh.. quite a shame.


(I'm not involved with OpenBTS)

Well... it's also not the story. It's a neat project. The OpenBTS guys make tiny cellsites that can be rapidly deployed and are largely in use in other areas of the world where communications are tightly controlled by the government. The attempt is to democratize communication and put it in the hands of the people. It's also an interesting model for disaster recovery... where you have to build a temporary city for people due to external factors (disaster, uprising, refugees) and get them connected again. Kind of like a Hexayurt model, but with communications. The OpenBTS guys have used the Playa the last couple years as a test bed and proof of concept. The software is open for anyone to take and add on to, which is a really good thing.

I don't know in previous years, what frequencies they were radiating on. For a living, I design and deploy wireless telephone networks for a US Wireless carrier, if they were radiating on frequencies I have license for... I would be VERY unhappy. Not because of competition... but because you're FUCKING UP MY SHIT with INTERFERENCE.

This year, they went to the FCC and got a special license to radiate on the frequencies that are used in China for cellular/wireless phones. In the states, those are DoD bands... BUT they were given license to use them, which is why they went to the ChinaMobile SIMs.

I spent some time talking to the guys. They idea isn't to connect people to the outside world (They don't connect to the PSTN, only internally...the functionality is there, but only the people who run the network can use it) but rather connect people within the city. They were running (when it worked) a "Burner Roulette" line. You dial 777 on the phone, and you're connected to a random person on the Playa with one of these phones. Kind of a neat toy... it'll be interesting to see what they do with it in coming years.


I have helped out the openBTS crew. It is a great project, very appropriate for burning man. The first time out the goal was to provide a useful on-playa service (SMS from playa to playa, not to the outside world) using their software defined radio system, and at the same time to stress test their system in the one place in the world that has no cellular service to interfere with, and yet thousands of cell phones at the same time. There is nowhere else like it, and being able to hook up with friends with you on the playa via SMS is really cool. They also had some voice support but to reduce bandwidth they did not want to provide that. Later on, however, a company decided it wanted to provide commercial cellular service during Burning Man. The BMOrg was against it, preferring to not have people wandering the playa talking to their friends in the default world all day. (Everybody was cool with playa to playa, no different than the FRS radios and staff radios you find all over the place.)

Alas, they could not stop it, and the company (Alltel I think?) set up and provided crappy service to Verizon and AT&T customers. But now that they were operating in the area, they had the right to complain about openBTS operating on "their" band. They said it was only one year but they came back. Eventually openbts decided to use the European bands, which of course AT&T does not use but most phones today can switch to -- some manually, many automatically. But then the cell company complained more and they switched to only working with phones when people came and got a special SIM just for them, which really cut back on the number of phones they talked to.

That was both good and bad. In the early experiments, there were so many phones on the playa that when their tower started up, it got back responses from more phones that it could handle. Who would figure that thousands would leave their phones on in a place with no service? But they do. (If you connected, you got a text telling you to text back the phone number you wanted to have on playa, and after you did that, people could text you with that number.)

Anyway, just brainstorming, I imagined that if the airwaves became free again, it would be fun if a gate radio station had a small microcell, and people in the gate line could call in and chat, tell their story of what they were going to do on the playa this year, promote their camp, tell past stories. A fun phone in show, something to listen to while in gate line -- while also learning the rules of gate. It would be an experiment to see if it got people to do a more orderly gate and more aware of how to do things.

You don't have to go as high tech as openbts. You could also create a small radio station with FRS radios. Over the FM radio you could tell folks with FRS to call in on one channel if they want to talk, and then once they were up, to switch to another channel to have a walkie-talkie chat. Not as nice as cellular and some risk of interference from people in gate line, and to a limited extent from the city itself, which is a total FRS chatterbox -- so much so that some people have given up on FRS. FRS' range is small enough that from gate to city interference should be less, but many people carry more powerful GMRS radios these days that can go that far.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:31 am

OMFG masturbate in the mirror much?

And let the board say, "FUCK YEAH!"
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby junglesmacks » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:07 am

Clar-i-ty wrote:OMFG masturbate in the mirror much?

And let the board say, "FUCK YEAH!"


:lol:
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Rice » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:50 am

bigdane wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:So, how many pages will this thread have to take up before it is the internet equivalent of the gate line?


well I'm an incoming virgin but I'm beginning to get a feel what the lines might feel like... :lol:

btw when I do arrive at the gate will it piss off the vet behind me in line if I get out and roll on the playa??? :P


The gate staff will probably yell at you. They are both concerned for your safety and that the line keeps moving as fast as possible. Please follow their directions, they deal with a lot of people and the number of crack-monkeys before you might make them abrupt.

Therefore once you get to greeters, you can roll on the playa, get naked or whatever at that point. Gate is not greeters. Mostly, the gate staff also does not like getting hugged. (Really, seriously, they don't...)

There is a lot of excited energy in the gate line, heck, I get excited at Reno. When I get to Gerlach I am even more excited. Once My front wheels touch playa, that's it -- I am at Burning Man.

Enjoy the ride!!

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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby ygmir » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:51 am

Clar-i-ty wrote:OMFG masturbate in the mirror much?

And let the board say, "FUCK YEAH!"


have I told you lately, that I love you?
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Dr Helix » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:55 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Dr Helix wrote:Help help me!!!!!! I'm being buried alive by a ponderous weight of words with no real solution or outcome. Help me....................

*hands the Dr all three volumes of Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire*
This should cut through the density of the thread by half.



At last! Some light reading........
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:44 am

i think we need a GATE NAZI....

like a HITLER or something...



what?

it took WAY too long to mention..."him"...
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:56 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:i think we need a GATE NAZI....

like a HITLER or something...



what?

it took WAY too long to mention..."him"...


Um...have you met Naked Bob? I wouldn't use the term Natzi but TOTAL FUCKING BAD ASS definitely fits the bill, or in this case, the Bob.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:00 pm

ygmir wrote:
Clar-i-ty wrote:OMFG masturbate in the mirror much?

And let the board say, "FUCK YEAH!"


have I told you lately, that I love you?


Shhhh....on the DL (Back 'atcha)
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What Would Naked Bob Do?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:24 pm

i had the pleasure of being hassled at the gate by Naked Bob.

i told him that next year i would tattoo "Naked Bob is an Asshole" on my list of shame on my arm...
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:10 pm

"What Would Naked Bob Do?"

If you read the underside, you'd know the correct answer is FUCK YOU

:D
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Lord Of Ruin » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:35 pm

stretch80 wrote:
lemur wrote:
bradtem wrote: Discussing things here does not seem to be a good path to improvement, though the contributions of people who actually work the gate have been valuable.


the chasm between discussions on Eplaya and the decision making parts of the various burning man depts is huge...


Sometimes, the eplaya thread gets passed on to the gate "powers that be". Although, that only happens when something amazingly stupid or revolutionary is being discussed. (usually the stupid ;)

It is both frustrating and humorous to follow threads that have two opposite sides and never any attempt to reach a common ground.

It is nice to see this particular thread evolve into functional dialogue. The only way to really understand the challenges of gate is to get involved during the event, and after having some experience, rise to the challenge and put one's ideas to the test. From my 4 years of involvement, I have so far only come up with a couple suggestions, which might get adopted. If the people in line for BRC behaved like a normal line, the thread's suggestions for improvement might make sense. But, I am still amazed at how un-normal some burners really are... (in the staying in line, with your vehicle, following instructions kind of way)


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And as Rice will tell you (I hope) he's never been given the "cold shoulder" or any other bad reaction to any comment or suggestion he does have in Gate. We just don't work that way. We WANT the shit to improve. Hell, if they gave us all the decision power, Gate would look/act very differently. But then again there would be very little "Burning Man" left...lol.

Point being, it's not that we're not open to suggestion, exactly the opposite. But some of this stuff is like a kid at a Dr.'s visit demanding to have a lollipop be his prescribed treatment: nice in theory, but unworkable and ineffective in practice.

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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby bradtem » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:47 pm


And as Rice will tell you (I hope) he's never been given the "cold shoulder" or any other bad reaction to any comment or suggestion he does have in Gate. We just don't work that way. We WANT the shit to improve. Hell, if they gave us all the decision power, Gate would look/act very differently. But then again there would be very little "Burning Man" left...lol.

Point being, it's not that we're not open to suggestion, exactly the opposite. But some of this stuff is like a kid at a Dr.'s visit demanding to have a lollipop be his prescribed treatment: nice in theory, but unworkable and ineffective in practice.

LoR


Yes, online trolls don't bother me. And in fact the challenges revealed don't scare me too much, they just make the problem more interesting. One of the big takeaways is that burners, eager to finally get to the place they've been anticipating for a long time, become highly unruly, so much so that many gate staff feel that altering this is a windmill to tilt at.

But another thing we all know is that in the right circumstances, the vast majority of burners can be one of the most cooperative and caring groups of people we know. One big challenge is how to alter that psychology. This is something that traffic engineers tackle all the time, though they don't have a "better nature" to try to bring out in many cases.

I will also note that almost nothing is found in the permit or associated operating plan about how to run gate. The operating plan does say tickets are counted, but that's not cast in stone for the future. The Dept. of the Interior is of course often quite amenable to other population counting methods including statistical ones. Their revenue is not per participant, it is a cut of the gate. The main things in the plan are requirements to make people aware of the rules through signs and publications, particularly the no-firearms and no-fireworks rules.

The answer may lie in changing people from thinking about gate as a "before burning man" experience (with lines, an every-man-for-himself attitude, searches, commerce etc.) to an inside-BRC attitude of cooperation, chill, trust and gifting.) This is not trivial but I think it is possible.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby trilobyte » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:08 pm

Yeah, but until you're actually participating with the gate team and doing the job and working to implement your grand ideas, you're just another wanker without experience on the sidelines who thinks he knows better and is telling people they're doing it wrong.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby junglesmacks » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:11 pm

bradtem wrote:The answer may lie in changing people from thinking about gate as a "before burning man" experience (with lines, an every-man-for-himself attitude, searches, commerce etc.) to an inside-BRC attitude of cooperation, chill, trust and gifting.) This is not trivial but I think it is possible.


Talk about the understatement of the entire thread. Seriously.. think about the logic/logistics/reality of the situation (which I am seeing is very hard for you to do).

You're going to somehow, someway.. calm 15k-20k people excited/freaking out with anticipation in line that shhhh.. quiet now children.. let's all calm down and form a nice, perfect line here. No line changing. YOU.. yes YOU! Stay in your line and everyone.. gather round.. let's sing another round of Kumbaya before we hit gate..


No, really. I'm not trying to be an ass.. but..

bradtem - THINK ABOUT THE REALITY OF THINGS INSTEAD OF YOUR PIE IN THE SKY UTOPIA IF YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING


The only way that I see that you are going to physically speed things up is simple physics. The amount of people in line is like the volume of water. The line.. like plumbing. The only way that you are going to make that water move faster through the pipe is either increase pressure or increase volume. Period. You're NOT going to magically change the attitude/behavior of 15k people waiting to get into Burning Man. You're not. Get that out of your head. The only way that I see here to change anything is to physically increase the breadth of the gate by adding more inspection stations and therefore increasing that pipe size to fit more water flowing through it. That's it.

Honestly, it's pretty simple. So actually, LoR.. why can't we just do that then? Why can't there just be more inspection lanes? Shit.. have 15 of them flowing at one time. Have as many as there are greeter stations and have set lanes that go directly from gate to greeters.

Increasing pipe/line volume is the only way that I see around this. Not magically changing crowd/mob mentality..
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Lord Of Ruin » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:35 pm

junglesmacks wrote:
bradtem wrote:The answer may lie in changing people from thinking about gate as a "before burning man" experience (with lines, an every-man-for-himself attitude, searches, commerce etc.) to an inside-BRC attitude of cooperation, chill, trust and gifting.) This is not trivial but I think it is possible.


Talk about the understatement of the entire thread. Seriously.. think about the logic/logistics/reality of the situation (which I am seeing is very hard for you to do).

You're going to somehow, someway.. calm 15k-20k people excited/freaking out with anticipation in line that shhhh.. quiet now children.. let's all calm down and form a nice, perfect line here. No line changing. YOU.. yes YOU! Stay in your line and everyone.. gather round.. let's sing another round of Kumbaya before we hit gate..


No, really. I'm not trying to be an ass.. but..

bradtem - THINK ABOUT THE REALITY OF THINGS INSTEAD OF YOUR PIE IN THE SKY UTOPIA IF YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING


The only way that I see that you are going to physically speed things up is simple physics. The amount of people in line is like the volume of water. The line.. like plumbing. The only way that you are going to make that water move faster through the pipe is either increase pressure or increase volume. Period. You're NOT going to magically change the attitude/behavior of 15k people waiting to get into Burning Man. You're not. Get that out of your head. The only way that I see here to change anything is to physically increase the breadth of the gate by adding more inspection stations and therefore increasing that pipe size to fit more water flowing through it. That's it.

Honestly, it's pretty simple. So actually, LoR.. why can't we just do that then? Why can't there just be more inspection lanes? Shit.. have 15 of them flowing at one time. Have as many as there are greeter stations and have set lanes that go directly from gate to greeters.

Increasing pipe/line volume is the only way that I see around this. Not magically changing crowd/mob mentality..


There are functional limits to how many lanes can effectively be operated before order and safety breaks down. Multiply that by the same issue being a concern at Greeters, at Gate, and finding plots in the dark in the city.

in other words....you're drinking from the hose and are real thirsty. One way to get hydrated fast is for me to turn up the hose. Another way is for me to give you a larger diameter hose (more lanes) at the same pressure. A third is to add a larger diameter hose AND more pressure. But now you've got another problem looming...how quickly can you swallow all the water without vomiting it back up? (that's the city itself.)

For the record, Gate runs 8 set lanes, and we have the ability to add up to another 4 realistically in crunch times. That extra space is usually used to accommodate issues like breakdowns, emergencies, etc The 8 lanes are typically running multiple crews in each lane; typically 4 vehicles more or less get searched and processed and released in a batch. Next four...

Bradtem, you keep mentioning other events. Can you cite an event that searches all vehicles, must take individual tickets, is a camping/living space event, and lets the participants choose their own space to set up in....and that does it all much better than BM? Did you know other festival send people to BM to find out how to fix their issues by copying some of our methods?

I'm curious..what are those other better run events that hae solved the problem? Maybe a handful of us can go there and glean some hints.

Wanna know how simple it would be to cut the processing time/line in half, at least from a Gate standpoint?

[list=]All vehicles must have all spaces within them able to be reached by an arms length...let's say 30". If any part of the vehicle is not reachable by a person easily getting that close, the entire vehicle is turned back to Reno to remedy. Anybody that's processed through in a car or small SUV will attest to how fast that is.

All vehicles hold up tickets as they get to the sorting kiosk. No tickets in evidence, they're routed down the loopback down the highway. Go fix it somewhere else.

Move willcall/boxoffice into Gerlach, Nixon or Reno. Anywhere but the event.

All drivers must remain within the vehicle once they leave the highway. Turnoffs/loopbacks to the highway will be placed along Gate road. If you exit your vehicle, your vehicle will be sent back down the highway to try again.

All vehicles must stay within their initial lane until they reach the sorting kiosks unless directed otherwise by LEO or Gate staff. We catch you lane changing, and we send you back down one of the turnouts to the highway. Try again from the back of the line.


LoR
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Rice » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:40 pm

Lord Of Ruin wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:
bradtem wrote:The answer may lie in changing people from thinking about gate as a "before burning man" experience (with lines, an every-man-for-himself attitude, searches, commerce etc.) to an inside-BRC attitude of cooperation, chill, trust and gifting.) This is not trivial but I think it is possible.


Talk about the understatement of the entire thread. Seriously.. think about the logic/logistics/reality of the situation (which I am seeing is very hard for you to do).

You're going to somehow, someway.. calm 15k-20k people excited/freaking out with anticipation in line that shhhh.. quiet now children.. let's all calm down and form a nice, perfect line here. No line changing. YOU.. yes YOU! Stay in your line and everyone.. gather round.. let's sing another round of Kumbaya before we hit gate..


No, really. I'm not trying to be an ass.. but..

bradtem - THINK ABOUT THE REALITY OF THINGS INSTEAD OF YOUR PIE IN THE SKY UTOPIA IF YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING


The only way that I see that you are going to physically speed things up is simple physics. The amount of people in line is like the volume of water. The line.. like plumbing. The only way that you are going to make that water move faster through the pipe is either increase pressure or increase volume. Period. You're NOT going to magically change the attitude/behavior of 15k people waiting to get into Burning Man. You're not. Get that out of your head. The only way that I see here to change anything is to physically increase the breadth of the gate by adding more inspection stations and therefore increasing that pipe size to fit more water flowing through it. That's it.

Honestly, it's pretty simple. So actually, LoR.. why can't we just do that then? Why can't there just be more inspection lanes? Shit.. have 15 of them flowing at one time. Have as many as there are greeter stations and have set lanes that go directly from gate to greeters.

Increasing pipe/line volume is the only way that I see around this. Not magically changing crowd/mob mentality..


There are functional limits to how many lanes can effectively be operated before order and safety breaks down. Multiply that by the same issue being a concern at Greeters, at Gate, and finding plots in the dark in the city.

in other words....you're drinking from the hose and are real thirsty. One way to get hydrated fast is for me to turn up the hose. Another way is for me to give you a larger diameter hose (more lanes) at the same pressure. A third is to add a larger diameter hose AND more pressure. But now you've got another problem looming...how quickly can you swallow all the water without vomiting it back up? (that's the city itself.)

For the record, Gate runs 8 set lanes, and we have the ability to add up to another 4 realistically in crunch times. That extra space is usually used to accommodate issues like breakdowns, emergencies, etc The 8 lanes are typically running multiple crews in each lane; typically 4 vehicles more or less get searched and processed and released in a batch. Next four...

Bradtem, you keep mentioning other events. Can you cite an event that searches all vehicles, must take individual tickets, is a camping/living space event, and lets the participants choose their own space to set up in....and that does it all much better than BM? Did you know other festival send people to BM to find out how to fix their issues by copying some of our methods?

I'm curious..what are those other better run events that hae solved the problem? Maybe a handful of us can go there and glean some hints.

Wanna know how simple it would be to cut the processing time/line in half, at least from a Gate standpoint?

[list=]All vehicles must have all spaces within them able to be reached by an arms length...let's say 30". If any part of the vehicle is not reachable by a person easily getting that close, the entire vehicle is turned back to Reno to remedy. Anybody that's processed through in a car or small SUV will attest to how fast that is.

All vehicles hold up tickets as they get to the sorting kiosk. No tickets in evidence, they're routed down the loopback down the highway. Go fix it somewhere else.

Move willcall/boxoffice into Gerlach, Nixon or Reno. Anywhere but the event.

All drivers must remain within the vehicle once they leave the highway. Turnoffs/loopbacks to the highway will be placed along Gate road. If you exit your vehicle, your vehicle will be sent back down the highway to try again.

All vehicles must stay within their initial lane until they reach the sorting kiosks unless directed otherwise by LEO or Gate staff. We catch you lane changing, and we send you back down one of the turnouts to the highway. Try again from the back of the line.


LoR


100% That would work!
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Dr Helix » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:02 pm

trilobyte wrote:Yeah, but until you're actually participating with the gate team and doing the job and working to implement your grand ideas, you're just another wanker without experience on the sidelines who thinks he knows better and is telling people they're doing it wrong.



And..............................can we be done here? The only reason I want bradstemcell to continue is that I have trouble falling asleep and his writing seems to be the best non-medicated sleeping solution out there.
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Re: Reducing the line to get in the gate

Postby Clar-i-ty » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:59 pm

Dr Helix wrote:
trilobyte wrote:Yeah, but until you're actually participating with the gate team and doing the job and working to implement your grand ideas, you're just another wanker without experience on the sidelines who thinks he knows better and is telling people they're doing it wrong.



And..............................can we be done here? The only reason I want bradstemcell to continue is that I have trouble falling asleep and his writing seems to be the best non-medicated sleeping solution out there.


GET OUT OF MY TRUCK HIPPIE!
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