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Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:14 pm

it's America, you can spend your money any way you want to.

period.

the end.

huge fucking DUH.
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Postby ibdave » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:32 pm

ygmir wrote:so, here's just a random thought, or thoughts, and questions:
(and, not aimed at anyone here specifically)

Who, says what BM is all about?
Who is anyone to judge, how another enjoys their time there?
Why, is it a problem, if someone can afford servants, to hire them?
Why, do some judge others, because they don't "burn" like they "should"?
Where, in the "rules" is it written how anyone should "burn", or how much money they should spend?
Where, is it written that there are limits, or procedures, to conduct one's "own" burn? (short of stepping on others rights)
When, did folks become so self righteous, as to tell others how to enjoy themselves?
When, did the opinion of "Burnier than thou" folks, become sacrosanct?

Sure, what some do, and how they enjoy themselves, may well bother others.
But, if the event is truly about "radical inclusion" and freedom of expression,
WTF gave anyone the right to dis on someone?
Yeah, we all do it at times, and look down on others who don't "do it right"......but, jeeze.........as long as they're not physically bothering you.........how about a little, STFU, DTFK-A.

How does anyone know who "gets it"?
perhaps, being that judgmental, the "judge" may well be "judged"?

Things change.
People change.

yup, sometimes we don't like the change, sometime, we are the change.

How about, meeting these folks you look down on?
How about finding out, that they may be totally cool, giving, and kind?
Asshats are not defined by their bank accounts.


dang......I'm rambling.......

*rant/ramble switch off*


Yup... 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Postby Eric » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:38 pm

Agreed. Yggy nailed it.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:39 pm

seconded.


nice one Yggy.
fuck you, it's magic

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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:21 pm

Burnier than thou?
I've already gone on record as being burnier than everyone else.

And I can verify that Doc Pyro being a douchebag has nothing whatsoever to do with income, or lack of it.

Somehow this doesn't bother me much.
I've met very cool people in million dollar RVs, and invited them to burning man.

I've offered to concierge setup for friends that don't have the time.
However my version of canned burning man consists of pushing them out of the camp: Here's burning man!
Go!

But I could do a great concierged event and still not provide a canned experience.
I'm not beyond flying people in using a tarted up gulfstream or MIG trainers.
I have a few ideas.

If I can't afford to go this year, again, I might be available to prep the ultimate experience.
But only those serious about doing it all would be accepted.
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Postby oneeyeddick » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:28 pm

There is a wealthy fellow(customer) at my GF's restuarant that wants us to take him and wife out, set up a nice shade next to his RV, and show him the ropes.

$1500 cash and buying our tickets and food makes it tempting, but I don't think so.

Gyre would do it, but then again Gyre is Burnier than I am.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
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Postby gyre » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:32 pm

Eric wrote:edit: I need to point out that using the heavily coded anti-gay phrase "lifestyle" has me pissed to no end. Using that is like an old white man calling an African-American "boy".

I hear 'lifestyle' as more of an ironic term these days.

And fyi, you and I can't afford a lifestyle at the moment.
Here's hoping that changes.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:40 pm

Being old and poor puts me at having to beg for help setting up..

After just now trying to mow the lawn.. Had to come in and use the huffer for the old lungs.. Guess I better win the lottery and make myself less of a burner
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Postby Isotopia » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:47 pm

It really is no big deal.

The issue come up every year on this board.

It really just doesn't matter anymore. Seriously. What we have is just another indicator of what the future holds.

Just another indicator of the event's slow, slouching march towards mediocrity.
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Postby Cheyenne » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:04 pm

I do not know how the overseas folks manage to do it; for most of them, having a Sherpa of some sort, even paying a Sherpa to arrange things before they arrive, might be the only way to make it happen. With perhaps 1000's of people in that situation, surely there must be plenty of Burners who have this organized.


We are doing it all ourselves, 6 of us coming from the North of England. Got an excellent deal on a camper (rv) rental, and we are only relying on our camp mates to take a few bits for us and additional water, which would be tricky if we don't have some massive gerry cans.

I don't think I would take someone up on a 'package' like that even if I did have the money to do it... I like organising things myself :/[/quote]
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yes, but is it Good Blow?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:39 pm

umm, did anyone read the fine print?


this price INCLUDES HOOKERS AND BLOW
fuck you, it's magic

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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:58 pm

Then they should call it the "Larry Package" and not use the bm label! :wink:
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Postby Major Krash » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm

...the promised vehicle could be an issue were the DMV to get proof that a licensed MV was being used for profit...especially if there was room and people were being denied a ride...and of course if the location of the RV's was known a whole new sport could be invented - freaking the tourists!

edit - perhaps the DMV should add a line to the MV application that the Owner agrees not to use the vehicle for profit while at BM...
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Postby peachandpapa » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:58 pm

That camp sounds like hippie catnip to me...
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Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:15 pm

Oh yes!

Any hippy asking for anything:"No I don't have that, but they do over there."
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:21 pm

AntiM wrote:I'd think being the servant would suck, unless they have enough of them to work in shifts. Now there's a job description, "Burning Man asswiper". Wonder what it pays? What will people do for a free ticket?


I hope you haven't forgotten that you are not first to ask the question.
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Postby bluesbob » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:48 am

The phrase "Burning Man spirit" is in there many times. There is no spirit. This is the absolute antithesis of Burning Man.

Plus at the bottom it say the offer is for those who do not have the time to set-up, tear-down, or clean up camp. You'd think they were getting butlers and maids. But going back to the paragraphs it say there will be people on hand to "assist" with these things. Sounds like a rip-off. Allude to one thing, but reality is different.

God I hope they don't camp by us.
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Postby AntiM » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:28 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
AntiM wrote:I'd think being the servant would suck, unless they have enough of them to work in shifts. Now there's a job description, "Burning Man asswiper". Wonder what it pays? What will people do for a free ticket?


I hope you haven't forgotten that you are not first to ask the question.


Oh, not forgotten.
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Postby Sham » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:41 am

FIGJAM wrote:Then they should call it the "Larry Package" and not use the bm label! :wink:

Sorry, but the words "Larry" as well as "Harvey" are both trademarked by the organization. They have also applied for "fire", "flame", "burn" and "Man". Anyone attempting to use these words in any context, will be subject to prosecution.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:28 am

bluesbob wrote:The phrase "Burning Man spirit" is in there many times. There is no spirit. This is the absolute antithesis of Burning Man.

Plus at the bottom it say the offer is for those who do not have the time to set-up, tear-down, or clean up camp. You'd think they were getting butlers and maids. But going back to the paragraphs it say there will be people on hand to "assist" with these things. Sounds like a rip-off. Allude to one thing, but reality is different.

God I hope they don't camp by us.


If they are not interfering with your trip, then don't worry about it. That's the original burner way.
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Postby sacramentogames » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:01 am

First, I would like to address curiousgnate who says he is an employee of Burningman. I find it surprising that Burningman would condone you acting as an employee cursing me out, and 30 seconds into me explaining what I am doing, you hang up on me. I have treated everyone including those with controversy with absolute respect. I am glad we have brought the conversation here where I can explain myself without people like you acting like a teenager, throwing your verbal daggers at me, and not giving me the opportunity to respond to your hatred comments. I would seriously hope that employees of Burningman would act with a little more dignity. Burningman has seen much larger obstacles in their day and I'm pretty sure they don't throw a tantrum at every obstacle or bump in the road. The key part of conversation is speak your mind, allow the other person to respond, and be respectful of others feelings. With that said...lets move on with the discussion.

I understand that what I am doing might create some controversy. I have changed my ad to be more in the "Burningman Spirit". I spoke with someone last night that was an 8 year Burningman vet for about an hour on the phone last night. I explained my goals and what I was trying to do with my ad. He explained the major part of Burningman that I left out, the building as a community. So I have changed my ad accordingly and I have pushed my ad towards being proactive in helping thy neighbor build Burningman into a metropolis.

Lets get into "Why the heck would I do this"? I cater to large corporations with top execs across the world. My clients are very strapped for time. We all know that it can take days even weeks to prepare everything for Burningman event. It can take a full day to wait in line, get in, and get setup. My clients either do not have this time or are a bit older and don't want to do it. Its their choice and I do not judge. There are MANY RV companies setting RVs up for people on the playa and none of them are receiving any grief and they are charging a stupid amounts of money to do it. They are making large profit and no one cares. Getting back to the point, my clients do not have the time to goto the store, setup, tear down, take the trash to the dump, clean the RV, etc, etc.

As for the morphed vehicle we will provide. Our morphed vehicle will be a piece of art like other vehicles out there. It will not just be used just for my clients to ride on. Our vehicle will be used to take our clients and anyone who wants to ride on it around Burningman. As you can see, we will be using it for one day to tour Burningman and the rest of the time it will be open for anyone who wants to use it. Ask nicely and you are welcome to use it.

The only thing my clients can be guilty of is eating good at Burningman, not wanting to spend weeks with planning and setting up, not wanting to deal with trash, fuel, generators, dumping the tanks and putting fresh water in the tanks. It seems a lot of burners think that this is a huge part of this event, I beg to differ. So if my client wants to fly in, pop a $300 bottle of bubbly to kick off their day at Burningman, by all means pop that bad boy and lets have a drink. If my client chooses to have a fillet mignon for dinner and open a $300 bottle of Opus One wine, that's their choice. Everyone has different tastes and we shouldn't be judgmental.

The Burningman experience is for the everyone including the poor, the rich, those who live in Nevada, the UK, Australia, or even those who live in Cambodia (I know, its a little stretch). How one chooses to enjoy themselves and participate is to everyone's own choosing.

Everyone here thinks I am getting rich from the package I am selling on Ebay. There are many planners that I met last year at Burningman but they choose to keep it hush hush. They do the same thing I am doing. Since most burners who are hating on me think I am getting rich, I will somewhat break it down for you. I have found that all the trailers and RVs out there (RV rentals companies) have either rented out all of their RVs or they will not rent to Burningman. Many burners who have called me said that its stupid to tell these RV companies where you are using them because they will gouge you knowing you are taking the RV to Burningman. This is true, they do raise the rate when you say Burningman. Well, I am not a thief, a cheater, a lier and I believe in ethics. I am upfront with the RV rental company. These RVs get abused by the playa dust and take about 10 hours to clean them right. I have called around and they run $10,000-$14000 to have delivered, removed, then cleaned. I will be happy to give you the numbers I called to back it up. In the package we also are bringing up 6 people to set up their camp and maintain it all week. Each person will work 6-8 hour days then they are off to enjoy Burningman. Each person I bring to help I have to pay for lodging, food, compensation for work and tickets to Burningman. There is a lot to purchase and to prepare for. As any event there is always some unforeseen costs. I have left 10% in my costs for these items. I certainly cannot turn to my client and put my hand out for more money because I forgot the costs of something. The person who under budgets a large event is the person who goes bankrupt.

I know that Burningman spirit is all about giving and sharing without expecting anything in exchange. We are bringing a morphed vehicle for everyone to use, not just our group. We are also bringing things to give out to fellow burners (yes, it is all part of my budget). So yes, I have some clients who may not have time to shell out in setting their own camps up however they do share into the Burningman concept.

I have changed my ad to be more proactive with the Burningman spirit. Those who call or write me with feedback, I listen with ears wide open and I welcome the criticism. If you put your needles in your voodoo doll and throw daggers at me without a chance to respond, it becomes a juvenile one way conversation and it is both easy for me to ignore and you will never get your point across. Being that I was the fat kid in school, I have pretty thick skin.

Lets be respectful and give each other a chance to speak freely without threats of violence and hate. That is not what Burningman is all about.
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Postby Just_Joe » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:17 am

Shambala wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:Then they should call it the "Larry Package" and not use the bm label! :wink:

Sorry, but the words "Larry" as well as "Harvey" are both trademarked by the organization. They have also applied for "fire", "flame", "burn" and "Man". Anyone attempting to use these words in any context, will be subject to prosecution.


Also- "queue".
A change to the definition has already been submitted to Webster's.
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Postby AntiM » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:27 am

Thank you for responding here. Takes balls, because the eplaya is not for the faint of heart (and I'm the volunteer moderator on here, who tries to get the cat herd to play nice. It ain't easy, well, not truly possible).

A question: we are all asked to do 2 hours of MOOPing at areas other than our personal camps. I know not everyone does so, but hey, that's another discussion. Are your clients afforded the opportunity and supplies to engage in MOOP removal? Would they see the value of such participation?

Do you do a ten principles indoc/introduction for them? Basic survival tips in case they don't care to read the survival guide for themselves? I feel this would be a disservice not to inform them of the "read the back of your ticket" mindset.

Are the folks on staff able to attend otherwise, or does this form of ... um, employment, allow them a chance to get on the playa which they'd miss?

I'd love to read "customer reviews" to see how your clients feel about the experience when they depart. Did Burning Man change anything for them? Was it just a dusty trip to Weirdo-land? Do they identify with the community now? Are they interested in fostering community by funding "miracle tickets" at the gate? Are they given a way to participate and/or create art?

Bring them by Anti M's Home for Wayward Art. Adopt some art.
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Postby AntiM » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:32 am

The 1000 watt Dj system concerns me, as the limit for residential camping areas, per the survival guide, is 300 watts. Thoughts?
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Postby sacramentogames » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:39 am

What Is MOOP?

MOOP is an acronym for "Matter Out of Place", a convenient way of referring to anything that is not originally OF the land on which our event takes place. So everything that wasn't originally ON or OF the Black Rock Desert, no matter how small, is considered MOOP, and is to be removed as part of our Leave No Trace efforts. MOOP also includes greywater, and the particulates contained therein.

As for my clients understanding of Burningman, I am working on a video to show them what to expect and how participation is the true experience.

Your suggestions are well taken and will be a huge help in making this experience for everyone more enjoyable.

Thanks,

Kevin
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Postby pinemom » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:44 am

Permission to flame!!!!???? AntiM!
he made me do it!!!



Sacramentogames! Yo. you dont know what "Moop" is????
Get out of here! Go do LOT and LOTS of research

*&@$#^%$#$!$#^*^&(*&^%$%$^##$%%$E^$%&^^&#$%!!!!!!!!
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Postby sacramentogames » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:46 am

AntiM wrote:The 1000 watt Dj system concerns me, as the limit for residential camping areas, per the survival guide, is 300 watts. Thoughts?


You are right. I will cut the wattage down to 300. I would never turn music up to loud as to disturb our neighbors. Thank you for pointing it out.
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Postby sacramentogames » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:53 am

pinemom wrote:Permission to flame!!!!???? AntiM!
he made me do it!!!



Sacramentogames! Yo. you dont know what "Moop" is????
Get out of here! Go do LOT and LOTS of research

*&@$#^%$#$!$#^*^&(*&^%$%$^##$%%$E^$%&^^&#$%!!!!!!!!


I apologize for my ignorance. I didn't know what MOOP "Matter Out of Place" was.

My clients will probably leave Burningman right after the burn. However I have already planned on me and my 5 staff members spending an entire day filling our uhaul up all the way up with trash and MOOP.
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:56 am

Sacgames, I gotta say yours is one of the more disingenuous, bullshit posts I've suffered through in a very, very long time.

Sure it takes balls to come here. It takes an even heavier set to come here with the intent of blowing smoke up the collective ass of this board and expect to be taken seriously.
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Postby Just_Joe » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:58 am

pinemom wrote:Sacramentogames! Yo. you dont know what "Moop" is????
Get out of here! Go do LOT and LOTS of research


Yes, LOTS of research. I gotta give him credit tho for coming on the forum to participate. Run of the mill ScalperScum wouldn't have bothered.
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