What is your definition of art?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby shitmouse » Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:23 pm

What is your definition o fart?

c'mon, i'm not that old...
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Postby zzberlin » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:20 pm

> However, most great art stems from the artist's suffering. I'm not sure about you, but I know that all of my favorite artists happened to be tortured individuals who used their artistic prowess to combat and try to understand their pain.

This is a romanticized delusion that keeps artists moping about feeling sorry for themselves (for their 'art') when instead if they got their shit together, they'd really do something important.

I believe that unhappiness and destructive behavior ultimately undermine talent. I know there are a lot of great artists out there who are fucked up and unhappy, but I believe they would be contributing even more to the well-being of the planet if they suffered less.
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Postby ness » Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:21 pm

art is work all good art comes from hard work just ask any real artist at BM
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Postby typewriter » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:34 pm

How about this:

Anything that man chooses to create that is not specifically a tool, is art.

This does not imply that art cannot be a tool.
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Postby stuart » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:41 pm

you'd need to define tool.

I have seen some lovely tools that are surely works of art as well.
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:57 pm

My "tool" for one
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Postby typewriter » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:10 pm

tool : An object used to facilitate or perform labor.

By this def:

A bottle is not art, its a tool to make holding liquid easier
A pile of candy is art
A G4 is not art
A G4 sitting on a pedastal on display is art (the tool is not being used as a tool)
unjonhartley's 'tool' is not art because he didn't create it


This is shaky but interesting
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Postby Merman » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:45 pm

Personally, I would mostly agree with Typewriter and Rob the Wop.

I think the problem defining the difference between art and craft gets to be sticky because of the issue of quality. People want to feel and believe that if it’s well made it must be art. Not so. Art and quality are not the same thing.

I’ve come to believe that the difference between art and craft has to do with the intent of the maker. If the person is making the thing so someone can have, see, and or use it - then it is craft (which is no insult). If they are making the thing because making it, is an unavoidable act, or making it for the sheer joy of the making – then it is art.

That says nothing as to whether it’s good art or good craft. I’ve seen art which is complete crap and craft which is joyous and moving. But how I react to the article does not affect the intent or motivation of the maker.

The thing which makes art art is the intent of the person making it.

That’s not to say the thing can be sold and money can’t change hands . . . . blah, blah, blah. But if you’re goal is about other people, you’re not making art . . . journalism . . . editorials maybe . . . but not art.
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Postby Merman » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:19 pm

“That’s not to say the thing can be sold and money can’t change hands . . . . blah, blah, blah. But if you’re goal is about other people, you’re not making art . . . journalism . . . editorials maybe . . . but not art.”


I'd like to edit that portion, it was said very poorly . . . my brain skipped ahead of my typing

If you're making it for other people - it's craft. If your reason for making it, is to affect, impact or educated other people . . . I wouldn't even call it craft. Craft which has it's basis in a desire to educate, inform, or influence is simply a new form of journalism.

Better . . . but still needs help
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Postby dragonfly Jafe » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:32 pm

Art vs. Craft vs. Tool is more of a grey scale, and they overlap alot in some cases.

Things that are made have deliberate features. If the feature is predominantly functional, vs. non-functional, it is tool-like (a iron nail). The opposite makes a feature art-like (a rubber nail). The middle ground is where Crafts fit in (a painted nail).

Things that have more (or dominate) art-like features than functional features are "artsy", the opposite is "non-artsy".

Tool can be art, and Art can be a tool. IMHO - the best BM art is both at the same time.

regards, Jafe
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Postby Rob the Wop » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:37 pm

Official non-PC definition of art:

Anything I can pretend I do that will get me laid by those indie or goth chicks.
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Postby stuart » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:02 pm

I’ve come to believe that the difference between art and craft has to do with the intent of the maker. If the person is making the thing so someone can have, see, and or use it - then it is craft (which is no insult). If they are making the thing because making it, is an unavoidable act, or making it for the sheer joy of the making – then it is art.


so ming vases are not art?

some craft is art. Think about the bayeaux tapestry

define craft?

I can, it's my definition of art sans the creative communication.

so what makes tapestry cross the line? Simple, the uniquely creative idea.

is a G5 art? probably not per se. Is the design of the G5 art? Surely.
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Postby stuart » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:03 pm

to remove all useful objects in this world from the domain of art seems not quite right to me.
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Postby unjonharley » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:44 pm

To me Art is a fellow I know. We hung in the same crowd. He married this female that had murdered her boy friend. Buryed him in the yard. She wanted to give his motorcycl to her new boy friend. She only did 8 years. Art had a bike. All of a sudden they moved away. No one has heard from Art.
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Postby DeadlyKungFu » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:35 pm

would that be underground Art?
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Postby shitmouse » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:23 pm

<schnort>
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Postby shitmouse » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:25 pm

merman,

is that you Jim Thomas?

-b
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Postby Merman » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:43 am

I didn't mean to imply that functional items can not be art. They can be.

It's not an issue of how the item is used. The issue is what the intent was DURING the making. I could take a Monet and use it as a room divider, that wouldn’t turn it into a tool or craft. I could take a spoon and hang it on the wall, that doesn’t make it art (otherwise art is defined by nothing more than location – “if it’s on the wall it’s art”).

Personally I would have no problem with a Ming vase being craft. I imagine some are craft and some are art. Just because something is beautiful, valuable, or important doesn't mean it's art.

IMHO

Where a functional item becomes art is when the intent during its creation transcends its physical usage. African masks and often drums are made with intents which go beyond their physical function. This makes them art.

In various African religions drums are seen as living things, their job is to call up the spirits. So, the making of a drum isn't just about stretching skin to make a sound. It's about creating life and creating a doorway into the spirit world. I don't have to agree with the religion to see that this is art.

However - there is no doubt that there are holes and problems in my definition of art. It is certainly not perfect. It's just the most functional answer I've been able to find. It's an issue of practicality . . . how to deal with the subject from the standpoint of working.

Based on my definition, I've made craft and I've made art. And I believe they are both worthy things to do.
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Postby unjonharley » Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:56 am

Merman wrote:
– “if it’s on the wall it’s art”).


/\
"if it's in themail box it's bill"


"if it's on the porch it's mat"

any one else????
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Postby DVD Burner » Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:07 am

Image

Image

B&O has more.


Image

Image

and art that makes art:

Image

and there are other examples of funtional Art.
Image

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Postby DVD Burner » Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:11 am

that last one was kinda ugly in comparison to this:

Image
Image

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Postby stuart » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:53 am

it's a good thing b&o make pretty gear cuz it sure don't sound very good.
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Postby playasnake » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:14 pm

design != art

art = that which expands definition
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