marketplace.burningman...

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

marketplace.burningman...

Postby eigenstates » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:41 pm

Nuff said.

It was nice to know ye.
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Postby neon tetra » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:00 pm

This is funny, because I was just making this post [ viewtopic.php?t=37741 ] a few minutes before you posted this, and I was discussing it with my girlfriend.

I was saying how it would be good if they sold some organic, locally-grown food there. I'd rather see people spend money on that, as opposed to junk food from Wal-Mart. (I mean, it's really not 'radical self reliance' when you buy hundreds of dollars of stuff from the mega-store down the road anyway)
But I was saying "I really just hope they never sell t-shirts or shit like that".
And here it is, lol.

(and they're not even nice. the 'digital' one wouldn't be half bad, if it was smaller & didn't have the Burning Man words on it.)
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Not for sale

Postby eigenstates » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:16 pm

Well I am still for the nothing for sale on the playa aspect so I can't agree with them selling anything (ice, coffee included). The addition of this whoreish behavior- selling calendars and t-shirts post playa, circumventing their very own conditions for photographers and artists from selling their own works- unless you get approval and pay a 10% profit tithe to the ORG, is absolutely disgusting and hypocritical. It clearly marks the end of what it once was and if one is happy with this de-evolution, great, continue to support it and be happy in whatever cognitively dissonant reality that is. However, for the sensible folks who reality this effects, it's time for something new rooted in the old.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:24 pm

It's been there for years. At least half a dozen. So either the sky fell years ago, or it's not as dire as you think.
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Oh you're right

Postby eigenstates » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:40 pm

How silly of me, just because it's been there for years- that makes it fine. I apologize.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:44 pm

Well I am still for the nothing for sale on the playa aspect so I can't agree with them selling anything (ice, coffee included). The addition of this whoreish behavior- selling calendars and t-shirts post playa, circumventing their very own conditions for photographers and artists from selling their own works- unless you get approval and pay a 10% profit tithe to the ORG, is absolutely disgusting and hypocritical. It clearly marks the end of what it once was and if one is happy with this de-evolution, great, continue to support it and be happy in whatever cognitively dissonant reality that is. However, for the sensible folks who reality this effects, it's time for something new rooted in the old.



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Postby neon tetra » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:01 pm

Also important to remember.. there was no art (other than the man) at the first burns.
There were also no RVs.
Or tickets.

Things change.

Some good, some bad.

And even that is more a matter of time and perception.


There is a story of a farmer whose horse ran away. That evening the neighbors gathered to commiserate with him since this was such bad luck. He said, "May be."

The next day the horse returned, but brought with it six wild horses, and the neighbors came exclaiming at his good fortune. He said, "May be."

And then, the following day, his son tried to saddle and ride one of the wild horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. Again the neighbors came to offer their sympathy for the misfortune. He said, "May be."

The day after that, conscription officers came to the village to seize young men for the army, but because of the broken leg the farmer's son was rejected. When the neighbors came to say how fortunately everything had turned out, he said, "May be."
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Postby Fire_Moose » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:07 pm

It's such a better idea to not have ice out there, yer right!



Last i checked the LLC is a FOR PROFIT kinda thing...
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Postby eigenstates » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:18 pm

[quote="neon tetra"]Also important to remember.. there was no art (other than the man) at the first burns.
[/quote]

I don't remember that being true but art is subjective.
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Postby eigenstates » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:20 pm

[quote="Fire_Moose"]It's such a better idea to not have ice out there, yer right!



Last i checked the LLC is a FOR PROFIT kinda thing...[/quote]

Yes, that is exactly what I said. No ice. I certainly wasn't saying something as silly as I didn't agree with ice being for sale.
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Re: Oh you're right

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:35 pm

eigenstates wrote:How silly of me, just because it's been there for years- that makes it fine. I apologize.

It's been there for year, so whatever effects, good or bad, have been affecting the burn for years. I maintain that since you haven't noticed, it's perhaps worth waiting judgment for.

Now, pick up your straw man and take it home. It's mooping on my floor.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Postby geospyder » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:45 pm

I have mixed feelings about the ice and coffee. While in principle I think they should not be for sale I have enjoyed seeing the smiles and confusion on peoples faces as I walk away and they discover that their coffee was paid for.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:02 pm

I have mixed feelings about the coffee, too. It's my understanding that Larry likes the idea of cafes and that center camp is designed to give newbies a place to learn how to interact without being intimidated by walking into theme camps staffed by crusty old veterans like ourselves. It is then hoped the fledglings will fly out all empowered. The coffee sales go to maintaining the tend and equipment. I started off as a volunteer and then I was sort of an accessory to a volunteer and while I was in camps, they were big ones and they were all there on their specialties and I didn't really know how to interact with them, much less the thousands of other people on the playa. I did not hit my stride in the cafe, but I do know that the thing it supposedly addresses is a real problem.

Having had food poisoning, I"m all for the ice sales.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Postby Eric » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:03 pm

OH MY GOD!!!

You mean the people who work their asses off all year arranging a festival for us to play in for a week get paid???

How foul! How rude! How un-fucking-hippie of them to actually take pay for the work that they do.

And, Holy Fuck, they sell shit too?? What madness! They didn't get my permission to actual make money off this event that they created while keeping the actual amount of merchandise sold pathetically small!!



Or, without the sarcasm:

Grow. Up.

The real world runs on money, whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not.

The BMorg makes enough to live on & want to keep throwing the party? Good for them!

You don't like it- don't go. I stay out of Center Camp Cafe for that very reason, but I don't cry for it's removal. It serves a purpose for some people.

Make your own event, run it for 25 years, and don't make a nickel on it. Have a great time.
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Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:30 pm

Um,

What eric said...


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Postby AntiM » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:34 am

I have a t-shirt and a calender. I like them. I was happy to fork over the money for them. It is their party and they can sell party favors on their site all they like. Big fucking deal.

And yet, perfectly nice burners cannot sell their old RVs, or domes (yes, I'm looking at you Mr. ....), or handcrafted sparkle fairy bongs with detachable penis enlargers here on eplaya. Go figure.

They ain't my TOS or my rules, but since the BMORG made up the Ten Principles at the same time, I got no beef with the small amount of commerce in the marketplace. And if the BMORG doesn't want to share with other photographers, that's their right too.

Mmmm, tasty Kool-aid.
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Postby Fire_Moose » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:15 am

eigenstates wrote:
Fire_Moose wrote:It's such a better idea to not have ice out there, yer right!



Last i checked the LLC is a FOR PROFIT kinda thing...


Yes, that is exactly what I said. No ice. I certainly wasn't saying something as silly as I didn't agree with ice being for sale.




you must have encephalitis er something.

How about you spend a week in the desert and don't buy ice? Lemme know if you want a cold beer, i think i got a Milwaukee's beast for ya
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Postby actiongrl » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:47 pm

The coffee sales support the construction of the Cafe, the one big shady spot on the playa that belongs to everyone.

The ice sales are (net) donated. Here's who they benefited last year - including the donation of all tips by the Arctica volunteers. From 2009's Afterburn:

"....this year our generous volunteers pooled their personal tips together to donate a whopping $5,067.81 to help preserve polar bears and their habitat through Polar Bears International. Learn more about their organization here: http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/

Equally exciting, the proceeds from this year’s ice sales made donations to the following organizations possible:
Best Friends Animal Society (in memoriam Bill Carter)
Mariposa's Art (Art, Music, Dance in Santa Cruz)
Dogpatch Neighborhood Association
The Crucible
Leave No Trace
Surprise Valley Chamber of Commerce (Cedarville)
Yick Wo School
Lawyers for Burners c/o Trip Knight
Nimby
Black Rock Arts Foundation
Circuit Network
Gerlach Medical Clinic
Empire 4-H Club
Gerlach Volunteer Fire Department
Gerlach High School
Gerlach General Improvement District
T1 Line for Gerlach
Gerlach-Empire Senior Citizens Palace
Crisis Call Center
Friend's of the Black Rock
Nevada Museum of Art
Nevada State Museum
Historical Society of Dayton Valley
Sierra Arts Foundation
Bruka Theatre
Nevada Discovery Museum
American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Nevada
Pershing County Government General Fund
Eagle Scholarship
Pershing County Community Center
Pershing County High School (Athletic Department)
Pershing County Domestic Violence Intervention
Pershing General Hospital & Nursing Care
Pershing County Humane Society
Lovelock Frontier Days
Lovelock Lion's Club
Friends of the Library
Marzen House Museum
Kids, Horses & Rodeos
Lovelock Food Bank
Lovelock Boy Scouts Association
Lovelock Little League Association
Lovelock Chamber of Commerce
Pershing County Arts Council
The Close Up Foundation
National History Day
Safe Haven Animal Sanctuary
Racecar Sponsorship
Project Graduation


The Marketplace already has a statement about what it is and why it exists, so I won't do that part again.
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Postby neon tetra » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:55 pm

...now imagine all the good things they could do with the profits from the juice bar and burrito stand! :)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:36 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Andie.
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:53 pm

game.set.match.


ACTIONGRL!
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Postby Nitevenus » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:07 pm

Oh sheesh, OP got one of the big guns out to defend ice sales.....the rest of us are armed with pea shooters.....and organic peas, at that, getting all mushy cause there's no ice to keep 'em cool. Oh well... pea soup anyone?

Yes, thanks Andie for the list.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:51 am

I've always dug that the Ice sales benefit charities and projects (tho I always thought they were more local to NW Nevada). Since it's something that is kinda tough to do without, it's a good thing that the proceeds benefit... (and add me to the "whatta hellova list" group!). Tho... damn... I wish the Crucible wasn't so farking 'spensive. Hard to do on my income level...

The Cafe... well, Um... I'll withhold comment on that. Sure the big shady pavillion in the middle is nice, but to me there's something wrong with it. JMO, ya know...

tho when Fishie wrote...


...It's my understanding that Larry likes the idea of cafes and that center camp is designed to give newbies a place to learn how to interact without being intimidated by walking into theme camps staffed by crusty old veterans like ourselves. ...


It actually almost sorta kinda makes sense why. I still don't like the idea of commerce much (I mean, serious, what did they do 20 years ago?) but we're stuck with it, and yeah, it is a big shady spot that EVERYONE can go hang out at... and it does cost money to maintain that beast (didn't they just re-do the cover or something?) so... um... yeah. If EVERYONE got in, chipped in say $10, maybe they wouldn't have to do the commerce thing, except, like any good drug, the money becomes addicting.

It's like, well, if I had a bar (damn, I do, but let me digress), because I like bars and bar scenes, and can do one well, and sold booze, or even just beers, to pay for a shade structure and art space that EVERYONE was welcome in, would that make my selling booze on playa OK? Nyet. Then again... it's not my event. ;)

Ya know... in a weird sorta way it's like going to an illegal gaming place... it has a certain edginess by being something that shouldn't be there, ya know...
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