Burningman gun policy, unlawful & dangerous!

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby caveatlector » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:32 pm

You do realize, Gunsmith, that Mr. Chomsky is also quite critical of US policy in general? His statement wasn't about a comparison about the USA and Canadian free speech policies-- but about the USA's policy in general.

I mean... he also says the following in the same paper:

"On that dimension [of freedom], the U.S. looks like a failed state. [It is] a state that has the formal political institutions, but they’re not functioning, if functioning in a democratic society is supposed to mean that public policy somehow reflects public interests and concerns. The divide is enormous."

See? I can cherry-pick his quotes too!
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Postby trystanthegypsy » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:38 am

Gun deaths per 100,000 people in 1998

#1 U.S.A. 14.24
# Brazil 12.95
# Mexico 12.69
# Estonia 12.26
# Argentina 8.93
# Northern Ireland 6.63
# Finland 6.46
# Switzerland 5.31
# France 5.15
#10 Canada 4.31

C'mon, people, clearly you need a gun in the US to defend yourself from all the crazy people with guns... oh shit.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:44 am

caveatlector wrote:Is this some sort of Yankee cultural thing that I'm just never going to get because I live in a saner, safer country?

ACtually, I've seen it connected to the south of the country, settled by scots and irish still very involved in a revenge and honor culture. Change that, and we might be able to keep our guns and send our murder rate down.

Yet, somehow, NRA doesn't teach those anger management classes.
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Postby gunsmith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:52 am

yup, the USA is a dangerous place, alright.
That's why BM org decided to have peaceful hippies with zero training confiscate guns at the gate.

The topic of this thread is BM policy on confiscation and the implementation of that policy, my point is that the gate has way to many distractions, and to many people to be a safe place to unholster loaded handguns.

You Canadians need to start your own thread about the superiority of Canada's gun policy, which includes expensive registration that has failed to solve a single crime, or maybe it can be about Canada's genocidal treatment of it's "First Nation" people. ... Of course like the USA own genocidal treatment, you had to first enact gun control to disarm the Native Americans.

Gun control advocates ( really, simply control freaks ) never admit the underlying reason for their advocacy of suppression of basic rights like self defense-racism. ... Well, except for Hitler, he admitted it.

11 April 1942

Der größte Unsinn, den man in den besetzen Ostgebieten machen k�nnte, sei der, den unterworfenen Völkern Waffen zu geben. Die Geschichte lehre, daß alle Herrenvölker untergegangen seien, nachdem sie den von ihnen unterworfenen Volkern Waffen bewilligt hatten.

Translated, this states, “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing soâ€
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Postby gunsmith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:02 am

Americans, like their superior cousins to the north discovered that the only way to kill a whole nation was to take away the tools of self defense.

Way to go Canada! You're keeping your racist laws, we dumb Americans feel that the elderly, crippled, Gypsy, Jew, disabled, Gay, Lesbian, black, First Nation etc all have the basic human right to self defense.

You superior Canadians realize that a rapist serial killer should have unarmed victims, we dumb Americans think an old lady weighing 90 pounds shouldn't have to fistfight a 200 pound convict that wants to kill her, she has a basic human right to self defense and can defend herself with a .38
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Postby gunsmith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:10 am

Our superior Canadians also know that it is better to let young woman die horrible deaths rather than have a handgun handy.

When Taylor Mitchell, 19, was attacked while she was hiking alone in Cape Breton Highlands Park, Nova Scotia superior Canadians heard her screaming for help. ... So they ran away and got a Park Ranger ( OMG a man with a gun) who promptly shot the animals attacking her.

Its far better superior Canadians isn't it, to have young woman die rather than have a tool to defend themselves, your superiority is fantastically awesome!
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Internet armchair warriors

Postby epic » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:10 am

Internet armchair warriors = 75% of Eplayans.
I don't want guns at BM and I think the law is on their side on this. Private Nevada businesses (like casinos) can not allow guns inside their property and BM is leasing the land.
There are enough dangerous or drunken or violent or lunatics, and just crazy folks (everyone from San Fran and Berkely) that are unarmed at BM. Arm them and violence will increase. Unless you're planning on wearing your gun in a holster the entire week (for the cops to hassle you) its academic anyway. It'll be in your tent when you need it right?
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Re: Internet armchair warriors

Postby gunsmith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:11 am

[quote="epic"]Internet armchair warriors = 75% of Eplayans.
I don't want guns at BM and I think the law is on their side on this. Private businesses can not allow guns inside their property and BM is leasing the land.
There enough dangerous or drunken or violent lunatics, and just crazy folks (everyone from San Fran and Berkely) that are unarmed at BM. Arm them and violence will increase.[/quote]

gee that's swell, how about staying on topic?
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Postby gunsmith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:13 am

[quote="theCryptofishist"][quote="caveatlector"]Is this some sort of Yankee cultural thing that I'm just never going to get because I live in a saner, safer country?[/quote]
ACtually, I've seen it connected to the south of the country, settled by scots and irish still very involved in a revenge and honor culture. Change that, and we might be able to keep our guns and send our murder rate down.

Yet, somehow, NRA doesn't teach those anger management classes.[/quote]

The NRA is the nations oldest civil rights org, & ccw holders have a lower rate of criminal activity than police officers.

Besides, this thread has a topic, you're not on it.
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Postby caveatlector » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:14 am

"gee that's swell, how about staying on topic?"

Irony, thy name is Gunsmith.
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Postby gunsmith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:16 am

I understand, you anti gun eplayans do not want guns at the event.

... Thats why you want to put the volunteers at the gate in a really dangerous situation by confiscating guns, yup! that sure makes a whole lotta sense! yup sure does!
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Postby ygmir » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:32 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
caveatlector wrote:Is this some sort of Yankee cultural thing that I'm just never going to get because I live in a saner, safer country?

ACtually, I've seen it connected to the south of the country, settled by scots and irish still very involved in a revenge and honor culture. Change that, and we might be able to keep our guns and send our murder rate down.

Yet, somehow, NRA doesn't teach those anger management classes.


Fishy:
where, does that come from?
Scots and Irish?..........

heaven forbid mentioning the inner city/urban gun violence........
And, please if you do, don't mention ethnicity......


Caveatlector:
I would give you, Kanuckistan is more polite.....but, safer and saner?.....well, moot, at best.
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Postby epic » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:39 am

The 90 pound grandmother argument:
I can see where single females might want to own a gun for self defense. But I wouldnt trust any elderly person with a gun who hadnt had a mental exam/alzheimers and parkinsons and sanity check and 6 months of training.
But not at BM. Even if magically all drugs and alcohol disapeared from BM it still isnt conducive to guns.

One reason: All the pranking practical joke playing rude socially retarded World of Warcraft introverted computer geek fuckwads that like to screw with people, like locking them in cages against their will (playa gift exchange), and the megaphone shouting douchtards, tecnho blasting at 5-8 AM cunts and macho posturing asswipe cowardly gangs (deathguild and DPW) and assorted shitbird toughguy steroided fratboys that get brave when they put on Mad Max attire and drive 1000 miles from home would end in in a confrontation with you or the next guy with guns. Someone would insult someones girl/boytoy and guns would come out. They'd cut in line to take a piss and you'd whip out your gat. Bike theft would result in death. Art cars getting jacked. Sounds like ghettotown USA. Maybe BRC can have its own crime infested ghetto?

Mutiply that times 1000 and thats what it would be like-shootings every hour. And when you with your handgun goes up against someone with a rifle or shotgun then what (were you planning on bringing an M16 or AK47)? Or several people at once with guns? Or the cops see your gun and shoot you first with fully auto weapons-happens all the time? The SWAT team would be roaming the playa in a tank and black choppers. National guard in Humvees with .50 cals. Iraq at BRC. Its going to be that way in 2011 anyway if they get their wish.
Do you really get in that many fights at BM? Arent your fists and feet enough to defend yourself?
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:42 am

ygmir wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
caveatlector wrote:Is this some sort of Yankee cultural thing that I'm just never going to get because I live in a saner, safer country?

ACtually, I've seen it connected to the south of the country, settled by scots and irish still very involved in a revenge and honor culture. Change that, and we might be able to keep our guns and send our murder rate down.

Yet, somehow, NRA doesn't teach those anger management classes.


Fishy:
where, does that come from?
Scots and Irish?..........

heaven forbid mentioning the inner city/urban gun violence........
And, please if you do, don't mention ethnicity......


Caveatlector:
I would give you, Kanuckistan is more polite.....but, safer and saner?.....well, moot, at best.

i dont' remember any more. The south is supposedly settled by celts displaced by the highland clearences and whatever oppression was going on in ireland at the time. They are supposed to have brought over their culture, a herding-based economy where cattle/sheep raids were common, and passed it on to the ancestors of the un-mentionable ethnic urbanites. I don't know if it's true, but it's interesting, and I have a fondness for looking at these sorts of apparently intractible problems in new ways, in the hope of actually finding a solution. If it is a cultural thing, then I think we do have a chance of threading this reef of dangerous shoals (or some such metapho4r). On the other hand, at some point of cultural de-adhesion (to invent an unlovely term) guns become a catalyst for greater violence.
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Postby SilverOrange » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:42 am

Dude, a lot of eplayans are gun owners, but if any of them have a problem with event policies, they quietly do their own thing. I would suggest that you do the same. You've recieved all of the answers you asked for in this thread.


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Postby caveatlector » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:43 am

Perhaps the ePlaya or the Playa isn't where you should be drawing this weird line in the sand?

You keep referring to simple, blind, rhetoric that doesn't have a lick of real-life application beyond the need to justify being armed wherever you go.

When Taylor Mitchell, 19, was attacked while she was hiking alone in Cape Breton Highlands Park, Nova Scotia superior Canadians heard her screaming for help. ... So they ran away and got a Park Ranger ( OMG a man with a gun) who promptly shot the animals attacking her.


And yet you don't understand that animal attacks happen with equal rarity in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave even though people like you keep pushing for the general armament of their populace.

Setting a gun policy is the right of the people running a private event and it personally makes me feel a bit more secure knowing that people who can't even piece together a cogent argument aren't armed while at the event.

As I've mentioned in another place on this board, I have experience dealing with unwelcome firearms at events, and I can assure you that unless the people you're dealing with are completely unbalanced, simply asking gun owners to leave their guns at the door or in police custody does actually work.

Or are you going to start talking again about the well-armed crazed gunman at the gates? Shouldn't this kind of thing never happen? Doesn't your gun control laws stop insane people from having weapons? Aren't all people who have weapons law-abiding citizens?

Maybe your problem isn't that there isn't enough gun-freedom-- If you're that concerned about crazed gun-nuts. Maybe your problem actually is that there isn't enough gun control.

I might see if I can volunteer for gate next year...
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Postby Bob » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:12 am

ygmir wrote:Scots and Irish?..........


You know, the villains who settled Boston, NY, Chicago, LA, Frisco, Reno etc.
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Postby Dr. Pyro » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:13 am

Bob, you should know that Frisco is a city in Texas and they all have guns. It's required.
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Postby teardropper » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:27 pm

I really don't understand why you keep saying people, 'specially those damn hippies, are in danger, and I assume you mean in danger of being shot, for enforcing the rules at BM? It seems that there is some mention of it, at least, in training. But don't concentrate on that. Tell me why there is any danger in finding and asking for a gun be checked at the gate?

The implication is that gun owners are a dangerous sort, who will shoot you if they don't like the rules.
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Postby ygmir » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:15 pm

Bob wrote:
ygmir wrote:Scots and Irish?..........


You know, the villains who settled Boston, NY, Chicago, LA, Frisco, Reno etc.


oh, I know who they are.....(my ancestors settled Reno, and, were Danish)............

I was more curious about why they were singled out.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:24 pm

Dogs are forbidden in our fair, temporary city. Pray tell, is there a trained animal handler at the gate? Maybe a veterinarian standing by with a tranquilizer gun? Somebody might have a pit bull and fight against relinquishing it!!! Somebody might get hurt!

Seriously, if anyone gives them crap, the trained and experienced sheriff's deputies are standing by, I am sure.
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Postby FIGJAM » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:33 pm

My understanding of what gunsmith is getting at is that unholtsering a piece is always dangerous, even if you dont intend to fire it.

Handing it over to someone who may not be familiar with said piece is even more dangerous.

A weapon in the holster of a trained gun owner is the safest weapon.
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Postby Bob » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:35 pm

Do they impound wood chippers too?

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Postby teardropper » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:48 pm

I don't know, but I love the hat.
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Postby much2naughty2 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:56 pm

Fargo was a great movie. Loved the wood chipper sceen.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:12 pm

That hat, while fabulous, is too dangerous for the playa. Thanx for playing!
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Postby swampdog » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:50 pm

Blah blah blah.

gunsmith quotes the BMorg:
NOT ALLOWED THROUGH THE GATE (i.e. what will be confiscated):

and starts nitpicking. Here's a hint: The part in ALL CAPS is the most important part. Guns (when identified) will not be allowed through the gate. If you wish to proceed through the gate and are carrying guns in an obvious way you must forfeit your gun for the duration. LEOs are all over this shit, you can bet that they approve this language and want it enforced. It's probably pretty rare for people to forfeit guns - Gate don't search your car in detail. But if you want to PLAY with guns on the playa, BMorg can expel you. This would no doubt be done in coordination with (armed and protected) LEOs who (guess what) also don't want guns in our volatile crowd. You cannot have a project with a driveby shooting range at Burning Man anymore. But if you bring a gun safely and discreetly into Burning Man there's probably little chance of it being taken away.

(somebody else said)
BMorg should have a responsible, level headed and legal approach to gun ownership

My turn to nitpick. This is an idiotic statement, BMorg shouldn't give a shit about gun ownership. They do have a responsible, level headed, and legal approach to BRINGING your gun to the playa: It's forbidden. You are forbidden from entering Burning Man with (obvious) guns. You can turn away and go home, or turn over the gun for safe keeping.
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Postby swampdog » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:00 pm

Gunsmith said:
Adolf Hitler stated this in April of 1942.


Godwin's law! You lose.

This conversation is now officially over. Thanks for playing.
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Postby Rice » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:11 pm

Gunsmith, I am sorry you hate me!!! I have never met you and I feel sorry for you...

Wow
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Postby teardropper » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:57 pm

[quote="gunsmith"] Adolf Hitler stated this in April of 1942.â€
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