Where does the buck stop?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Where does the buck stop?

Postby Damskippy » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:42 pm

I was just curious if there is an accounting of the BM funds. I have been told of funds directed to local law enforcement and art installations but I was interested as to where it all goes. This is not meant to imply by any means that I felt ripped off or over charged in any way. I treasure my BM experiences and consider the memories to be priceless.
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Postby precipitate » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:45 pm

The closest you'll get is the financial breakdown of http://afterburn.burningman.com/02/. It's a little vague, but it's all that gets published.
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try here

Postby dragonflyannie » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:23 pm

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Postby Damskippy » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:58 pm

thanks
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Postby Blackrock Lover » Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:08 am

Not sure on the local law enforcement amounts. BLM charges I believe $4/person/day to BR LLC for the permit. This is a national standard fee.
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Postby Borris » Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:23 am

5$ / person / Day.
Shit, where was i for the last week... ehm...
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Postby III » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:14 pm

> 5$ / person / Day.

mind telling us where you got that number from?
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A joke right?

Postby atari-x » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:24 pm

Look at how much it costs to take care of our shit and piss.

I wish I could get a few "mileage reimbursements".

"Outside services" looks like whoa.

"Software" hmm. what software i wonder.
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into peoples pockets

Postby chickenfish » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:40 pm

your money slips through the cracks
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chicken of the sea!

Postby atari-x » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:52 pm

freebsd...nice nice.
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get it yourself bob.
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Postby Borris » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:14 am

III wrote:> 5$ / person / Day.

mind telling us where you got that number from?


JRS, they said it when arguing why we shouldn't come early to the event.

and i remember seeing somewhere that this is also the fee the BLM charges individuals for camping on feseral land (don't remember where I've seen it)
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Postby Borris » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:15 am

What are "Artist Level" lickets?

when did u buy them??

from whom???
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Postby III » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:00 pm

>JRS, they said it when arguing why we shouldn't come early to the event.

thx.

strikes me as a bit high. i think the actual formula involves some fixed fee, as well as a per person per day fee. the highest i've ever heard estimated (by the llc) was $4/day.

if you look at the actual fees, $500,000 for 30,000 people for 5 days comes out to a little over $3/person.

there are some assumptions in there (that those staying for more than 5 days balance those staying for less), but i smell some funny accounting (to the tune of a 40% error) going on somewhere.
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:12 pm

I told y'all...

J Lo, Madonna and a stretch hot tub limo...
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Postby Hana Hou » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:25 pm

As a non-profit actively soliciting outside contribution, they would normally have audited financial statements available to "the public". This may or may not be the case with Burning Man LLC - I haven't bothered to look/ask.

It is easy to be an armchair accountant and try to pick apart what has been published on the site without full disclosure of the actual details. Even easier to pick apart one line item without full details. But that doesn't even begin to come close to reality. I am quite sure that there are many issues that are not disclosed for a variety of reasons.

6 million beans, give or take, has a lot more going on than the majority here would likely understand. I count other people's money (since counting mine doesn't take too long), and I would hesitate to make too many assumptions based on the information that is readily available, and 6 million is an average client of mine.
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Postby Borris » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:34 pm

III there are reports of people in on monday and saturday. monday 2002 was only 7000 peeps, the BLM (and i read it here posted by someone on the gate crew) gets updates as to how many people crossed the gate every 4 hours, you can also see those numbers updated on the board at playa info.

Also again i've seen the 5$/person/day figure on the BLM site with regards to general public camping on BLM managed grounds. they had it as 5$ for desert and 6$ for forest i think.

the llc has been fighting (and hence the gate searches) the idea of a fixed fee and have been assuring the BLM they can provide accurate census data per day. I'd say that it's 30,000 only for 2 days and 20,000 for friday
15,000 for thursday and less then 10,000 for monday tuesday and wednesday. but i don't have that data, it's just an assumption.
besides you don't know yet how much did the LLC pay BLM this year, the 550,000$ figure is from last year with a 28,000 census
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Postby Zane5100 » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:36 pm

Hana Hou wrote:As a non-profit actively soliciting outside contribution, they would normally have audited financial statements available to "the public". This may or may not be the case with Burning Man LLC - I haven't bothered to look/ask.


Uh, who ever said Burning Man was "non-profit"?
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Postby Hana Hou » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:54 pm

Hmmm, see? That's what ya get for assuming.. They do not say that they are a 501(c)3, but they ARE registered as Black Rock City LLC in Nevada.

And as a privately-held entity, they can tell you what they wish. The Afterburn Report 2001 gives more information than is available elsewhere on the makeup and details of the org.

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Postby precipitate » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:57 pm

The LLC is incorporated, but not public and not non-profit. The Black Rock
Arts Foundation, on the other hand, is a 501(c)(3) corp. I'd expect to see
much greater clarity in their accounting.
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artist level tickets

Postby chickenfish » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:38 pm

Boris
Artist level tickets are tickets they sell to people who are doing playa art installations, usually they are the lowest level ticket price.
Last edited by chickenfish on Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: artist level tickets

Postby girlie » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:59 pm

>> Artist level tickets are tickets they sell to people who are doing playa art installations, usually they are the lowest level ticket price.

holy shit. i have never heard of this one before. could you send a link or
something with more details on this?

i'm wondering if this is public information or if this discounted ticket price
is just for the llc's favourite participants.
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artists tickets

Postby chickenfish » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:16 pm

I think the Comp ticket are for their favored participants...they are free...most artists who do large scale installations will get a comp ticket for themselves, but if they have workers or assistants to help them ralize their vision they get "artist" level tickets. There is supposedly a very limited amount of comp tickets given out, while they have an almost unlimited number of artist tickets (or so I was told). But then Lo and behold I PAID for comp tickets. i was wondering How much of that goes down, where $300 here, $300 there gets lost in the pockets of those who handle the ticket sales... if you make the average cost of a ticket $200, with a population of 30,000 they pull in $6,000,000. A couple thousand dollars into the pockets of the ticket handlers and no one notices....
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Postby precipitate » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:21 pm

> A couple thousand dollars into the pockets of the ticket handlers and no
> one notices....

Although the members of the LLC strike me as a bit controlling, they don't
seem to be that fundamentally dishonest. More likely they just had tickets
printed comp handy and sent you one of those.
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Postby Ivy » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:31 pm

I personally think, like anything, there is some favoritism going on. But hey, if I was in charge, I'd let my friends in cheap or put 'em on the "guest list." I don't begrudge that.
What I ahve more of a problem with the people recieveing artist tix--I know some people that got comped, some people that got half-price (i.e. $90) tix, some people tho got $145 tix after they were "sold out." This is all fine. The people who, say, got a shitload of $90 tix for their "large dance ensemble" who then sold them to all their friends (most of whom had two left feet, if you catch my drift) is where I start to have problems.
I know there's really nothing that can be done about it, and it's not like I lay awake at night fretting about it, but I do choose not to patronize those people or their art/performances anymore. It's not much, but...
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dishonest vs. disorganized

Postby chickenfish » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:34 pm

loopholes in the system.
Last edited by chickenfish on Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Badger » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:52 pm

Honestly, I don't think there's anything I can do to change perceptions or that I even want to. Personally knowing a good number of people who deal with the tickets I'll say that I'd totally trust them and that their integrity is something I'd vouch for FWIW.

Having said that we had a Ranger last year who we found out was abusing his ability to get in and out of the gate with his laminate by bringing someone in without paying. We chomped his ass immediately and demanded that he step down as a Ranger on the spot. There were even a few in the ranks who believed it was appropriate to boot him from the event because he'd violated the trust of the community.
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