Radical self reliance myth - moment of epiphany -no prophets

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Radical self reliance myth - moment of epiphany -no prophets

Postby jpstiffin » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:34 am

Let's drop the myth that we are self reliant while attending Burning Man.
I was sitting by my humble tent when a mamoth RV pulled up next to me. A few days later, another vehicle arrived to service the behomoth motor vehicle. Nothing wrong with being prepared for harsh conditions. But to pretend that we are self reliant is silly. Let's start selling water at BM. For each person or group or campsite to haul individual bits of water to BM is inefficient. I see a group of tanker trucks lined up with water available for purchase. Makes sense to me.
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Postby Eric » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:45 am

I forged my RV out of metal I mined in Getafuckinglifeastan.

I hunt all my own food, skin it & eat it.

I turn the skins into clothes.

I've discovered potato skins do not last long in the sun.

I grow my coffee in a plantation in Whinertopia. I swim to it & carry the beans back on my head.

I make the fire with a magnifying glass I created out of molten beach sand to roast the beans.

Don't ask what I rubbed together to make the fire for the forge. Lets just say I have dry skin.

My lights are made from fireflies I trapped in a net woven from my beard.

I am Burner. Worship my self reliance.

Now, where's my fucking cocktail?
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Postby Fire_Moose » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:23 pm

I radically self relied on yer mom.
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Postby VeganChoirGirl » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:45 pm

Eric wrote:I forged my RV out of metal I mined in Getafuckinglifeastan.

I hunt all my own food, skin it & eat it.

I turn the skins into clothes.

I've discovered potato skins do not last long in the sun.

I grow my coffee in a plantation in Whinertopia. I swim to it & carry the beans back on my head.

I make the fire with a magnifying glass I created out of molten beach sand to roast the beans.

Don't ask what I rubbed together to make the fire for the forge. Lets just say I have dry skin.

My lights are made from fireflies I trapped in a net woven from my beard.

I am Burner. Worship my self reliance.

Now, where's my fucking cocktail?


Eric...in the droopy last days before finally leaving I really needed that laugh. I don't know that I have ever laughed quite so hard. Lovely.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:02 pm

If it wasn't a worthwhile value you wouldn't be complaining about someone else violating it.

Someday, you'll have a job and your mother will let you buy your own RV. Won't that be swell?!
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Re: Radical self reliance myth - moment of epiphany -no prop

Postby Sanddog42 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:10 pm

jpstiffin wrote:Let's start selling water at BM.


They sell water at Burning Man. It just happens to be very cold, solid water.
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Postby Davoid » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:11 pm

Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad stood in a long line in the desert, sun beating down on them, burning of thirst and clutching their money in their hands. When they finally reached the promised tanker truck, the man behind the counter barked, "Can't you long beards read the sign? NO PROPHETS!"
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Postby geekster » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:32 pm

I was sitting by my humble tent when a mamoth RV pulled up next to me. A few days later, another vehicle arrived to service the behomoth motor vehicle. Nothing wrong with being prepared for harsh conditions. But to pretend that we are self reliant is silly.


I am not getting your point. Did they ask YOU to help pay for the RV or the servicing? Sounds to me like they were pretty self-reliant if they paid for it themselves. Self reliant doesn't mean being a Luddite or doing things exactly the way YOU do them. It means doing whatever you do ... yourself without being a burden on those around you. Believe me, I have seen a lot of tent campers that were the opposite of "self reliant". I'm just not getting your bit about the RV somehow being connected to not being self-reliant.

As for efficiency, the entire fucking thing is inefficient. It isn't some socialist beehive. You carry your shit out there, you carry it out. If you have a Volkswagen Rabbit or a 40ft RV, what difference does it make. Quit whining about what other people do and mind your business.
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Postby Trishntek » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:58 pm

geekster wrote:
I was sitting by my humble tent when a mamoth RV pulled up next to me. A few days later, another vehicle arrived to service the behomoth motor vehicle. Nothing wrong with being prepared for harsh conditions. But to pretend that we are self reliant is silly.


I am not getting your point. Did they ask YOU to help pay for the RV or the servicing? Sounds to me like they were pretty self-reliant if they paid for it themselves. Self reliant doesn't mean being a Luddite or doing things exactly the way YOU do them. It means doing whatever you do ... yourself without being a burden on those around you. Believe me, I have seen a lot of tent campers that were the opposite of "self reliant". I'm just not getting your bit about the RV somehow being connected to not being self-reliant.

As for efficiency, the entire fucking thing is inefficient. It isn't some socialist beehive. You carry your shit out there, you carry it out. If you have a Volkswagen Rabbit or a 40ft RV, what difference does it make. Quit whining about what other people do and mind your business.


*Standing behind geekster*,,,, pointing my finger saying, "Yeah! What he said!"
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Postby Isotopia » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:21 pm

I see a group of tanker trucks lined up with water available for purchase. Makes sense to me.


If that's what you'd like to see then make it so.

Otherwise your just pulling pud you whiny bitch. What next? Port-o-bidets for those with sensitive shaved asses???
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Postby Clar-i-ty » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:40 pm

Ahhh! Sweet indignation! Can't wait to be home!
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Re: Radical self reliance myth - moment of epiphany -no prop

Postby andy » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:02 pm

[quote="Sanddog42"][quote="jpstiffin"]Let's start selling water at BM.[/quote]

They sell water at Burning Man. It just happens to be very cold, solid water.[/quote]

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Postby MistressSybs » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:45 pm

I love you guys! =)
Opinions and Assholes, everybody's got one!

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Postby bluesbob » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:54 pm

I have eating utensils I stole from El Pollo Loco.
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Postby Trishntek » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:37 pm

There are those who consider an RV "roughing it" and there are those who use an RV because of health and/or disabilities. The tent-only crowd probably have full faculties and abilities to be less dependent upon modern essentials.

The next time you see an RV camping near you, maybe consider the fact it may be the ONLY way they can attend the event WITHOUT RELYING on others. I believe that is called,,,,, hmmmm let me what is that term????? Oh! Yeah! Self Reliance!
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Postby Eric » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:58 pm

and then there are those of us who just like to turn on the air & sleep all day.

If self-righteous hippies don't like it or can't afford it, they can go right ahead & sleep in their nylon ovens, because, quite frankly, this whole debate is tiresome.

Don't like RV's? Don't rent one.

Don't want to see them next to you or hear them? Sleep in AEZ or Hushville or walk-in.

Want to call the people who use them some form of scum because you disapprove? Fine. Beat your head against the hood of the vehicle while you do it- it's just as effective.

Just don't ever think that your tired issue with RV's has any bearing on anyone else or the event as a whole.
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Postby bluesbob » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:54 am

My butler and I leave for the playa tomorrow.
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Postby Schtev » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:11 pm

Hmm. I must remember to have Giles disassemble the swimming pool and fill in the hole.

Seriously though. I camped in a tent and brought everything I'd need to survive alone for a week except a proper shade structure. Next year I'll build that too. But I've got nothing against RV people.
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Postby Lord Of Ruin » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:11 pm

Well as someone who has done it both ways (tent and travel trailer) from the start it comes down to the overall experience.

I find the tent option a totally artificial "reliant" experience anyway. There is so much infrastructure around you all the time, including whatever vehicle you brought to the playa.

Now, I'm not a person for campgrounds located in the shadow of a local stripmall. If yer gonna rough it, get away and go for it because roughing it is the way you CAN do it.

But humans have sought to bend the environment to their will since the dawn of time.

I find when I come back from BM when tenting it exhausted, feeling sore, beat up, wheezy, etc. I find when I come back from one when I use a trailer smiling, happy, engaged and remembering all the cool shit I did. I also work a shit ton while I'm there so when it's nappy time, it's gotta happen.

It sounds elitist to say but with very rare exceptions, the people complaining about the more upscale sleeping arrangements have never head the means to enjoy them.

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Postby sdowney2002 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:40 pm

This was my first burn; I rented a (small) RV because I've NEVER been camping and I wanted to be prepared. I didn't want to F*** up the experience for myself or for those around me.

In honesty, I was a little worried about bringing an RV onto the playa...reading the BM website made it sound like RVers are really looked down upon. I was so concerned that I tried to cover the RV in 100s of grass skirts (yeah, that was me at 5:30 & G).

So, I was pretty surprised to see all the RVs out there - and no one seemed to care...

So, until BRC requires ticket purchasers to pass some sort of "I am cool" test, I guess we're all just going to have to figure out how not to piss each other off.

OK, ya'll can start flamming me now.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:47 pm

The traditional hides for an rv include changing the words of the rental company and any slogans with tape or a cover of billboard vinyl. The problem with grass skirts is that they can be moopy.
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Postby Schtev » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:35 am

Lord Of Ruin wrote:I find when I come back from BM when tenting it exhausted, feeling sore, beat up, wheezy, etc. I find when I come back from one when I use a trailer smiling, happy, engaged and remembering all the cool shit I did.


You say that like nature kicking the ever living shit out of you and coming back with great memories and smiles are mutually exclusive. =p
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Postby groosh » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:06 am

I recently had to listen to a couple friends have this exact argument just a couple days after the burn. I found it profoundly depressing to see how quickly all the good feelings from the burn disappeared.

This is an issue that can be applied to life in general. It is always easy to criticize and find fault in others perceived actions. I am sure that all of us do things that someone would have a reason to hate, whether that it is the fact that we drink or enjoy other recreational substances or if we practice or don't practice a particular religion and so on...

Who cares if radical self reliance means having a fridge, microwave, AC, television and a king size bed to someone. Or even if it means staying in a hotel in Gerlach and driving back and forth each day. Assuming they are not parking their RV on your tent or hurting you in any way who really cares?

Instead be happy they are there. They, in their way that is different from yours, are part of the burning man family. In our non-burning man families we all have that strange uncle or cousin (likely we are that strange relative) but we love them because they are part of our family. We should take a lesson from that and just accept each other for who we are.

To quote the Dalai Lama "The greatest degree of inner tranquility comes from the development of love and compassion. The more we care for the happiness of others, the greater is our own sense of well-being."
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Postby CornStar » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:43 pm

Yeah we also had this talk in line. Seems to me that the folks with the money for RVs are also the folks with the money for really badass camps that draw folks in off the streets and make BRC fun. I personally don't have that much money and try to entertain passer-by's with a trampoline and sound system ... thats hardly as exciting as some of the rad elaborate camps I abandon my own to go see. If thats how you stay comfortable, well comfort is essential on the playa. To each his own.
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