Help me respond to this

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby Elderberry » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:33 pm

Trishntek wrote:When we saw this, it made our stomachs churn. BM is not Disneyland or Yellowstone. It is a place to test character and build character. A place to help and be helped. It is a sojourn,,,, a test of endurance, ingenuity and creativity. We are disappointed more than anything. It diminishes the heart and soul of BRC.

edit: ygmir, i understand what you say in response to "radical self reliance". BUT! It's not only the purchasing of stuff and using stuff for BM. It's the menu planning, the logistics of survival, creating that shade structure, pounding those stakes, driving that fucking gas hog of an RV and dealing with close quarters while traveling. Then,,,, as a result of all that fun,,,, when it is all over,,,, you get to strike camp and stuff all that garbage you created back into the space from which it came,,,, just to discover it grew for some reason! It is the EFFORT! NOT THE MONEY OR THE STUFF! I'm sure we have spent more than $6k for BM2010 and still have to buy groceries and gas and DO THE HARD THINGS to make it all work.

When someone is allowed to arrive with only personal items, which would be used in any hotel room, and everything else is provided,,,,,, sighhhhhh it's their loss I guess, but we find it sickening.


That's your personal opinion and you are entitled to it.

But it certainly does NOT define what BM is for everybody.

If you find it sickening, I suggest you take a few Tums or Pepsid Complete.

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
 
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Palm Springs
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby Elderberry » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:38 pm

C.f.M. wrote:
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:Don't see anything wrong with it at all. It's just an alternative way for a person to participate; and who are we to judge how or at what level a person chooses to enjoy Burning Man?

JK


that's a very good point, JK.

so many judge others, if they don't agree.
They say "all inclusive, all are welcome" but, seem only to mean it if they approve or at least can tolerate, what the others are doing.

"burnier than thou" is rampant, at times.

yeah, I may not want to, or approve, them or how they attend, but, who am I to condemn?

I pontificate, from this spot, firmly ensconced in my hypocritical tower, and admittedly so.


I would imagine the problem isn't necessarily with buying a travel package, but the sort of people who would do something like that.

IE, the burn "tourists."

Do these veteran also provide proper instruction on how to leave a clean area? Not moop other people's camps? etc.


There you go, judging again. Maybe they bring someone along and pay them to moop for them and to collect their ice. Or is that not in the BM spirit either? Ass holes will be ass holes, it doesn't matter what they are camping in or how they get to the event. And usually people that have the money, have it because they are intelligent and hard working people. Those people are more apt to follow the rules than someone that sneaks in the gate, which almost seemed condoned in another thread here.

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
 
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Palm Springs
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby Elderberry » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:41 pm

Trishntek wrote:Ahhhhh bullshit,,, they'll just turn around and have their butler wipe their eyes for them.


Sounds like class envy to me.

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
 
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Palm Springs
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby AntiM » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:54 pm

jkisha wrote:
Trishntek wrote:So maybe we have misinterpreted the meaning of "radical self reliance",,,, just didn't know we could buy it for a nominal fee. How many other principals are for sale?


Anything can be bought, if you can afford it. Those that can't usually bitch about it.

JK


I don't think the "can" is disputed, but rather the "should".

I'm loving the viewpoints.
we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 17891
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Wild, Wild West
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Postby Sham » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:04 pm

Maybe no one will take them up on their "offer" and they can wear their costumes and ride their bikes all by themselves. Further, I have a very real feeling that the OP is the person making this offer and just trying to sound like a referal. "Help me respond to this", my ass!
The whole idea of this sounds stinky to me.
User avatar
Sham
Moderator
 
Posts: 7066
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Postby Elderberry » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:04 pm

AntiM wrote:
jkisha wrote:
Trishntek wrote:So maybe we have misinterpreted the meaning of "radical self reliance",,,, just didn't know we could buy it for a nominal fee. How many other principals are for sale?


Anything can be bought, if you can afford it. Those that can't usually bitch about it.

JK


I don't think the "can" is disputed, but rather the "should".

I'm loving the viewpoints.


Personally, I believe that a big part of the whole experience has to do with the preparation, the participation, the planning, the involvement, the tradition, the art, etc. Basically all of the things that I have been playing the devil's advocate with Trishntek and CfM about.

But I know that I didn't feel that way the first time I went, and I really don't feel we should judge how others decide to experience BM.

I believe that the event is so great an experience that everyone should experience it once in their lifetime and shouldn't be judged for how they decide to do it. (Well, I guess we can talk about them in private, we all like to have something to gossip about.)

The event will transform those that are open to it and those that aren't will never come back. But everyone deserves the chance to experience the event

Damn, now that I just told everybody I have been baiting them, I guess I won't be able to have any more fun in this thread.

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
 
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Palm Springs
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby AntiM » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:21 pm

Oh, I think a good portion of my family should never go near the event. Their capacity for transformative change is lacking. I've made it possible for some nieces and a nephew to go, circumstance has kept away the ones who truly desire to return. For others, Disneyland is a once in a lifetime trip. And that's okay.

My mom would have loved it. She loved the idea of radical inclusion. And my brother Larry. He always wanted to go, he never had the time off, and then he died. He made beautiful silver pendants for us though, but never got one done for his son. Crap, huh?
we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 17891
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Wild, Wild West
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Postby ibdave » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:46 pm

my only wonderment here is, what are they offering as the "RV"?

Flatlander is right about the same shit years back, but they made a big deal about the RV being new on and on about the AC and size.
Well while working greeters shift before opening, we saw lots of old trailers being dropped off and set up later stuff going on. I wonder if the RV is new or piece of shit?
They went into great about food and stuff.
did you see the menu?? I've seen hippies eat better.... 8) 8) 8)
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg
User avatar
ibdave
 
Posts: 3524
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:09 pm
Burning Since: 1998

Postby Kinetik V » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:17 pm

I have no problem with this, but I do think the old saying of "There's a sucker born every minute" applies here. I look over that list and the price tag and think someone's getting screwed. I could do it cheaper and better.
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
When you finally let go, only then will you learn how to live.
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it.
User avatar
Kinetik V
 
Posts: 1645
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:43 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Burning Since: 2002
Camp Name: Sanctuary West

Postby Elderberry » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:40 pm

AntiM wrote:Oh, I think a good portion of my family should never go near the event. Their capacity for transformative change is lacking. I've made it possible for some nieces and a nephew to go, circumstance has kept away the ones who truly desire to return. For others, Disneyland is a once in a lifetime trip. And that's okay.

My mom would have loved it. She loved the idea of radical inclusion. And my brother Larry. He always wanted to go, he never had the time off, and then he died. He made beautiful silver pendants for us though, but never got one done for his son. Crap, huh?


LOL that's so true, but those people wouldn't even be considering attending this event even in an RV.

Sad that your brother never got to make one of his special pendants for his son...though I just thought of a perfect gift that now, only you could give him.

(Of course that depends on how his son turned out...I have a nephew that's 30 something and still living at home off my sister; and there's really not much I'd ever want to give him, except a boot in the rear.)

JK
JK
Image
http://www.mudskippercafe.com
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle.
Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
User avatar
Elderberry
Moderator
 
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Palm Springs
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Mudskipper Cafe

Postby yellowdog » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:53 pm

This is one of the most thought -provoking threads yet (intentionally or not).
re. DIY vs paying for a package: is it the same to spend $2000 on a Carnival cruise vs $2000 on a Crossroads Bike Tour of China? No. One requires dedication, preparation, training and effort. It's about the journey, not the destination, and the journey = personal transformation. Is it the same to spend money for an escort for a night as it is to work to meet someone, date them and then have sex? No (dammit). One requires a personal commitment of time, effort and emotion and becomes a totally different experience. Everyone spends (a relative) fortune to go to Burning Man. If you pay only to play, however, you miss the personal commitment of time, preparation, emotion, dedication,training and effort it takes to get there. And that is the part of life called 'life'. I'm not against people buying this package deal and purchasing protection against what they think they can't handle. It's just that it is so not the same as "becoming a burner". You can't just buy that.
yellowdog
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 9:06 pm

Postby Davoid » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:33 am

Shambala wrote:Maybe no one will take them up on their "offer" and they can wear their costumes and ride their bikes all by themselves. Further, I have a very real feeling that the OP is the person making this offer and just trying to sound like a referal. "Help me respond to this", my ass!
The whole idea of this sounds stinky to me.


Sorry, S, you need to get your very real feelings checked out, seeing as this one was way off the mark. But while I kept my two previous comments minimal (and with a very dry sarcasm- sorry you missed it), it seems I've opened up an interesting discussion.

My own negative reaction to finding this offer was about the lack of the ol' radical self-reliance, which has obviously been well-discussed here already. My first urge was to start sending false inquiries to these folks, take up their time with various nonsense, in the trickster tradition of BM that I have enjoyed perhaps more than anything else from all my years going (and that's saying a lot.) Anyway, that's where the title of the original post comes from.

Most of my posts on here were in the 2001-2003 time period, before the eplaya got reset (thus my 2005 "join" date). So I guess it's understandable why no one responded to the "how y'all been?" Oh well! Back to the shadows for me; see you on the playa!
User avatar
Davoid
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:34 am
Location: Los Angeles

Postby gyre » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:07 am

I remember you.

Where did you run across this?

What are you guys going to do if you run across one of the high end packages?

Is this self reliance on the part of the organizers?
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby AntiM » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:25 am

jkisha wrote:
AntiM wrote:Oh, I think a good portion of my family should never go near the event. Their capacity for transformative change is lacking. I've made it possible for some nieces and a nephew to go, circumstance has kept away the ones who truly desire to return. For others, Disneyland is a once in a lifetime trip. And that's okay.

My mom would have loved it. She loved the idea of radical inclusion. And my brother Larry. He always wanted to go, he never had the time off, and then he died. He made beautiful silver pendants for us though, but never got one done for his son. Crap, huh?


LOL that's so true, but those people wouldn't even be considering attending this event even in an RV.

Sad that your brother never got to make one of his special pendants for his son...though I just thought of a perfect gift that now, only you could give him.

(Of course that depends on how his son turned out...I have a nephew that's 30 something and still living at home off my sister; and there's really not much I'd ever want to give him, except a boot in the rear.)

JK


His son turned out fine and has been to the playa once. Funny, he was a Catholic school boy and he wore his school uniform clothes because they were khaki colored. By the end of the week he was wearing cute clothes a girl stripped off and dressed him in. We think he missed a clue there. He used his new-found bondage knot tying skills to help repair tents and art cars. Hasn't been back because he joined the Navy, currently finishing up nuke prototype training. I think he's going to be a bubblehead glowworm.
we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 17891
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Wild, Wild West
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

Postby gyre » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:48 am

He must be a tad smart then.


I kept hoping your brother would make it to burning man.
And just make it.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:01 am

I actually think that in some ways a cruise would be the best way for me to travel now, considering the logistics.
But I don't really like the way they set these things up, heavy on tours and light on street life.
Oh well.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


Get a Taint, you pathetic cur!
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 40001
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Postby Sham » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:24 pm

Davoid wrote:
Shambala wrote:Maybe no one will take them up on their "offer" and they can wear their costumes and ride their bikes all by themselves. Further, I have a very real feeling that the OP is the person making this offer and just trying to sound like a referal. "Help me respond to this", my ass!
The whole idea of this sounds stinky to me.


Sorry, S, you need to get your very real feelings checked out, seeing as this one was way off the mark. But while I kept my two previous comments minimal (and with a very dry sarcasm- sorry you missed it), it seems I've opened up an interesting discussion.

My own negative reaction to finding this offer was about the lack of the ol' radical self-reliance, which has obviously been well-discussed here already. My first urge was to start sending false inquiries to these folks, take up their time with various nonsense, in the trickster tradition of BM that I have enjoyed perhaps more than anything else from all my years going (and that's saying a lot.) Anyway, that's where the title of the original post comes from.

Most of my posts on here were in the 2001-2003 time period, before the eplaya got reset (thus my 2005 "join" date). So I guess it's understandable why no one responded to the "how y'all been?" Oh well! Back to the shadows for me; see you on the playa!

Well, if this is for real, then I owe you an apology. If you read the first post again, it gave the feeling of the offer being made there. There was also a vailed feel of a third party presenting it.

Don't dissapear on my account, most everyone thinks this is a great thread.
User avatar
Sham
Moderator
 
Posts: 7066
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Postby peacefulhuman » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:49 pm

AntiM wrote: Watching the enthusiastic newbs posting their daily prep, the vets who sweat their asses off, and the broke folk who pinch every penny to go, that's joyful here on the eplaya. It seems as though they put so much heart into it, that they will be the ones who get a lot out of it.


AntiM, I heart you.

Signed,
An enthusiastic, broke, sweaty newb
User avatar
peacefulhuman
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 8:11 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Postby Savannah » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:14 pm

This has been a really interesting thread. I've watched it for several days and have had conflicting thoughts. 1) Naturally, I think preparing and obsessing is part of the process of attending the burn, & 2) I don't like to see it sold or cheapened, and when I see someone marketing the Burning Man name on something innocently or not, I tend to turn them in so the Org can write a cease and desist. 3) And I believe in radical self-reliance.

However . . .

* I've met some really interesting international Burners and I'm so glad they attended, no matter how they got there. It's so exciting.

* I've been fascinated by how hard it is for them to get to BRC and impressed by their bravery and faith and daring, and sometimes what is almost foolishness in what equates to (sometimes) jumping without a net. While I'm not that kind of person, I want some of the particularly tolerable examples of that person around me. It's good for a fairly practical, anxious person like myself to see this in action--so I personally don't care if they paid a stranger $3,000 to pick them up from the airport and supply their food and water guaranteed, when they're flying in by the seat of their pants at 2am to a country of their second language. If it was a friend of theirs picking them up (and probably collecting almost that much from them, RVs being so expensive), we'd just call them lucky, & that'd be the end of it. It's how they participate once they get here that makes them a good or a bad Burner.

* Were Burning Man in Europe, I'm not sure I ever would have dared to go, but there they are, coming here. I don't wish to condemn what it might take for someone to come halfway around the world to get their feet wet. Maybe especially for their inaugural visit, this is not such a bad way to go (although the idea of providing costumes is both humorous and a little offensive, to me. Costumes are so personal, & usually the easiest thing to pack).

* Maybe someone who attends in this way the first time knows how to do it the next time. I had a lot of experienced burners with me the first time I went, and they gave me a ride and I chipped in for water and gas of course, and borrowed a tent from a friend. I knew 1 of them out of 20. And while I did bring my own costumes, sunscreen, first aid, and food, I didn't have to fly to get here. Many people literally can't avoid it, there's that big pond in the way. My point is, I had a lot of support in the beginning. And now I'm a Good Burner and I volunteer for my fair city.

So . . . that package deal, while not in the spirit of the event (especially for the seller, although RV operation ain't cheap) it might give birth to a good Burner.

eta: Would I do this package deal myself, even as a foreign newbie? No. If I'd read anything about the event before coming, I'd rather do it myself. But it's harder to judge someone else for trying it this way.
User avatar
Savannah
Moderator
 
Posts: 11441
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Burning Since: I'm not sure

Postby LeChatNoir » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:15 pm

yellowdog wrote:...One requires dedication, preparation, training and effort. It's about the journey, not the destination, and the journey = personal transformation... You can't just buy that.


It seems to me that buying an experience is nowhere near as rewarding as crafting it yourself from what ever you have at hand.
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
User avatar
LeChatNoir
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
Location: Louisville, Ky

Postby LeChatNoir » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:23 pm

Savannah wrote:So . . . that package deal, while not in the spirit of the event (especially for the seller, although RV operation ain't cheap) it might give birth to a good Burner.


What a great point. Hmmm... I guess it boils down to the intention behind the action doesn't it? And I suppose, a positive intention can sometimes cancel out a negative one.
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
User avatar
LeChatNoir
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
Location: Louisville, Ky

Postby ibdave » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:41 pm

I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg
User avatar
ibdave
 
Posts: 3524
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:09 pm
Burning Since: 1998

Postby LeChatNoir » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:52 pm

That sounds like a good deal, but when you check, it says the stove's only big enough to feed three of us.
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
User avatar
LeChatNoir
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
Location: Louisville, Ky

Postby ibdave » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:23 pm

snort... 8) 8) 8)
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg
User avatar
ibdave
 
Posts: 3524
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:09 pm
Burning Since: 1998

Postby curiousgnate » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:43 pm

so i did not get to see the ad as it has been removed. i think burning man is a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I know that its meaning has changed for me over the years. the problem for me is not the people who would use this service. we all know there are always tourists, and yes i use that word. it describes the people who have no intention of becoming immersed in the city and all it has to offer through participation and determination. they come and we deal with them and they can be annoying but ehhh i try not to waste my time dealing with them. my problem is with the "burners" who are providing this "service" come on people don't bring more tourists into our fair city and make a buck off of them. there are already plenty, and there are plenty of ways to make money for your burn in a way that promotes the culture that burningman has become. my only recourse is that these "burners" are going to have to deal with these tourists for the whole week. hahahahhahahaaaaaaa. you reap what you sow!
Creating Peace Through Anarchy Every Day!!! Stagger for life!
User avatar
curiousgnate
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:46 am
Location: Denver

Postby ibdave » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:26 pm

Here in sunny California, we have a not so big-box hardware chain that has tax free sales on weekends time to time.
The Ad on the radio was bla bla bla and at the end it said you can even finish up your Burning man projects..... 8) 8) 8)
I was Born OK the 1st Time....

Don't bring defaultia to Burning Man, take Burning Man to defaultia...... graidawg
User avatar
ibdave
 
Posts: 3524
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:09 pm
Burning Since: 1998

Postby Jackass » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:41 am

ibdave wrote:Here in sunny California, we have a not so big-box hardware chain that has tax free sales on weekends time to time.
The Ad on the radio was bla bla bla and at the end it said you can even finish up your Burning man projects..... 8) 8) 8)


I heard that same ad today, I had never heard that one before. I thought I was just hearing what I wanted to hear... 92.5?? :shock: :shock:
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token
User avatar
Jackass
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: way out in left field

Postby Jackass » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:41 am

ibdave wrote:Here in sunny California, we have a not so big-box hardware chain that has tax free sales on weekends time to time.
The Ad on the radio was bla bla bla and at the end it said you can even finish up your Burning man projects..... 8) 8) 8)


I heard that same ad today, I had never heard that one before. I thought I was just hearing what I wanted to hear... :shock: :shock:
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token
User avatar
Jackass
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: way out in left field

Postby This Woman » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:54 am

One year when RVs first started making a real presence on the playa, our camp ended up joining a group of doctors in two behemoth RVs. With one exception, they were just awful. Petulant and narcissistic, they took our resources in sneaky underhanded ways then argued with us when we called them out on it.

Based on that experience i made a broadstroke assumption that RVs caused people to be lazy, selfish, and not at all self reliant. Don't you just love those broadstrokes? All the worlds we miss by setting up those huge blind spots, and we do it to ourselves.

Anyway, since then I've known people that use them because they have young children, or in our own camp, a mate that can't go unless she goes by RV due to a chronic illness.

I happen to know that these people give back in many ways that are not apparent to someone standing on the playa resenting their RV. So I try not to do that myself anymore. I also have relaxed my attitude about who gives what back to the community anyway. Because not only might I not be aware of what a person is giving, or how self-reliant they are being, or that it really isn't my business anyway, but also that change happens, and sometimes (often? always?) slowly. It took me about 5 years from first hearing about Burning Man to then get my ass out on the playa, and I know that is not unusual. Today's vapid and selfish tourist may well be tomorrow's temple builder.
The Liver's End ~ Where the locals go.
User avatar
This Woman
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:44 pm
Location: Nevada
Burning Since: 1995

Postby gyre » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:18 am

If anyone saved the email for this ad, please email it to me.

I have a question and my computer crashed before I could copy it.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

PreviousNext

Return to Politics & Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests