NO KIDS ALLOWED!

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Re: people who bring young children to BM

Postby goathead » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:02 am

DoriumLux wrote:Aw, a compliment to be called a bitch really. I'm probably one the biggest bitches you'd ever meet. Tip for you. Drive head long into the first fucking cow you see on 447. :)


If I am going to by a cow, it will be one reasonably priced and taste good.

Don't see any of those on the res.

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Postby changoloco » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:05 pm

I don't mean to stir up any crap here I just wanted to put my worthless 2 cents in. For years I have argued that having children at BRC was a questionable decision. This past summer I found out that my girlfriend is pregnant. We missed BM09 but, we will be back this year. We will be having my son in March. It has now made me think long and hard about what the playa will mean to us as a family. First off, unintentionally, we chose a name for my son that means, "Little Flame". Appropriate? I think so.

I have a few friends that have brought their children, so I started contemplating it for my son. I do have a very strict rule; I will not bring him until he is fully capable of telling me how he is feeling. I believe that little things like, "Daddy, I'm hot, thirsty, tired and hungry." Will be instrumental in determining his experience. I have already purchased him a few costume items that I have found at thrift/consignment shops.

I have also begun working on an art-car project that is specifically designed for child/adult fun. He will be included in this project as I anticipate it taking me at least 2 years to complete. I understand that my experience at BM will change a lot. It will be not all that much different from my previous(12) experiences. It will mean the world for me for my son to be taught the values of family and community that have always been present for me on the playa. I view burners as the family that I have chosen and think it would be ludicrous for me to not include my son in my chosen family.

In closing I will say that, I am a fan of children attending BM. I am not a fan of irresponsible parents. Parents are irresponsible in both the default world and BRC. I will be one of the responsible ones as I watch my son's eyes widen as he takes in the marvelous beauty that is BRC.

PS:This next year my gf's mom will watch our son while we go to BRC. I firmly believe that no baby should be exposed to those kinds of extremes, it is not fair to them. So, this may be my last burn without a child coming with me.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:20 pm

changoloco wrote:I will not bring him until he is fully capable of telling me how he is feeling. I believe that little things like, "Daddy, I'm hot, thirsty, tired and hungry." Will be instrumental in determining his experience.

Just remember that they may be quite fluent in English, and still not so comfortable in their bodies to name these things. Remember that the first time you tell him he's overtired and has to go to bed. On or off playa.
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Postby ragabashpup » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:17 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
changoloco wrote:I will not bring him until he is fully capable of telling me how he is feeling. I believe that little things like, "Daddy, I'm hot, thirsty, tired and hungry." Will be instrumental in determining his experience.

Just remember that they may be quite fluent in English, and still not so comfortable in their bodies to name these things. Remember that the first time you tell him he's overtired and has to go to bed. On or off playa.

Crypto makes a valid point. Even at 2 children can sometimes have problems explaining thier basic needs especially when over stimulated. Not saying that it is a bad idea but you will have to force things upon him even when he is throwing a fit telling you that no I am not thirsty or tired or hungry.
My kid at 5 still argues with me when she is tired. So just make sure that you will be okay with the total melt downs that your child is bound to have while in the nice scorching heat.
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Postby changoloco » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:24 am

ragabashpup wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
changoloco wrote:I will not bring him until he is fully capable of telling me how he is feeling. I believe that little things like, "Daddy, I'm hot, thirsty, tired and hungry." Will be instrumental in determining his experience.

Just remember that they may be quite fluent in English, and still not so comfortable in their bodies to name these things. Remember that the first time you tell him he's overtired and has to go to bed. On or off playa.

Crypto makes a valid point. Even at 2 children can sometimes have problems explaining thier basic needs especially when over stimulated. Not saying that it is a bad idea but you will have to force things upon him even when he is throwing a fit telling you that no I am not thirsty or tired or hungry.
My kid at 5 still argues with me when she is tired. So just make sure that you will be okay with the total melt downs that your child is bound to have while in the nice scorching heat.


I appreciate your input. I am prepared for all these things. Hence why I am building, a very expensive, mutant-vehicle. This vehicle is going to have an area that is a/c'd with a bed, specifically for him. I have had a lot of friends that have had their kids there, so I am not flying blind here. I have been going to BRC since 1997. Besides, I am going to have the cutest, smartest most well-behaved son in the history of the world! ;)
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Postby rodiponer » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:17 am

Changoloco,
Feel free to stop by Kidsville this year and see how two year olds roll on the playa. They are generally running around like maniacs in the heat of the day while the parents hide in the shade. I think young kids may simply be too dumb to feel hot, or maybe they dissipate heat easier because they have more surface area for their small mass. So I am not sure that your son will treasure an air conditioned chill out space as much as an adult would. I have a feeling that the best part about your sons room is that it would be a place for you to recover from chasing him around :). And maybe, if he'll sleep there, allow you to explore the city at night with him close at hand.

Anyways, congratulations on being a new parent. And enjoy making the big and weird thing with your son-- mad scientist projects with the kids are one of my favorite parts of Burning Man.
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Postby MikeVDS » Tue May 25, 2010 12:40 am

I will not bring him until he is fully capable of telling me how he is feeling. I believe that little things like, "Daddy, I'm hot, thirsty, tired and hungry." Will be instrumental in determining his experience.


You probably already know by now that he doesn't have to actually say those words for him to communicate those ideas with you. It's not ever going to be if he's ready, it's going to be if you're confident that you can give him a better experience at Burningman that you would if you did something else. Kids are never "ready", it's completely up to the parents. I've seen people do great there with 6 month old up and I've seen many parents that I would say were irresponsible. I think you'll do great when you're ready though. It sounds like you're holding yourself to a higher standard for your son, which I think you have to. For me I always make certain that even in the worst case scenario that my daughter will have a great experience. For me that means trailer w/ AC, toys, book and even a DVD player in case were dust stormed in all week, which thankfully we didn't need to use last year at all.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue May 25, 2010 10:40 am

Here's my vision:

Image
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Postby Boijoy » Tue May 25, 2010 10:53 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Here's my vision:

Image


Hey,, what kind of stake is that?? :lol:
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Postby Fire_Moose » Tue May 25, 2010 10:53 am

let's just get rid of the problem...


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Postby bm_cricket » Tue May 25, 2010 11:04 am

Captain Goddammit, goathead...

Can I agree with both of you at the same time? How does this sound:
Bad parents shouldn't be allowed to attend and laws on public nudity should be abolished. I think that solves it.

Personally I think that Burning Man is a great community for children to grow up in. I think that valuing experience over commodity and expression over repression are great things for children to learn. The earlier the better!! And I think that learning not to be ashamed of your own body is great for kids too! (As a small example I think that the first time a woman attends burning man and realizes that there are thousands of people of every shape and size not ashamed of their own bodies their whole outlook on life changes. I think the earlier they learn that the more fulfilled their lives will be. I also think that it's a lesson seldom learned in the "normal world") And yes, there are parts of the event where children don't belong.. But there are parts of the event where I don't belong. I'm old enough to figure it out for myself.. responsible parents should be tasked with determining that for their children. In that way it's no different than the normal world!

I don't know if our puritan lawmakers would agree with me (which is a legitimate concern) but I don't agree with any of their preaching either. So fuck'm.
)'(
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Postby goathead » Tue May 25, 2010 11:11 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Here's my vision:

Image


We should bring? are those sheep or goats?
Help me here UD.
:lol:
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Postby goathead » Tue May 25, 2010 11:14 am

bm_cricket wrote:Captain Goddammit, goathead...

Can I agree with both of you at the same time? How does this sound:
Bad parents shouldn't be allowed to attend and laws on public nudity should be abolished. I think that solves it.

Personally I think that Burning Man is a great community for children to grow up in. I think that valuing experience over commodity and expression over repression are great things for children to learn. The earlier the better!! And I think that learning not to be ashamed of your own body is great for kids too! (As a small example I think that the first time a woman attends burning man and realizes that there are thousands of people of every shape and size not ashamed of their own bodies their whole outlook on life changes. I think the earlier they learn that the more fulfilled their lives will be. I also think that it's a lesson seldom learned in the "normal world") And yes, there are parts of the event where children don't belong.. But there are parts of the event where I don't belong. I'm old enough to figure it out for myself.. responsible parents should be tasked with determining that for their children. In that way it's no different than the normal world!

I don't know if our puritan lawmakers would agree with me (which is a legitimate concern) but I don't agree with any of their preaching either. So fuck'm.


Nope, you have to choose.

:lol: :lol:

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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue May 25, 2010 1:45 pm

bm_cricket wrote:I don't know if our puritan lawmakers would agree with me (which is a legitimate concern) but I don't agree with any of their preaching either. So fuck'm.


From a glance at the news, one can see how far our lawmakers are from Puritans, but they assume that their constituancy is. :( Fuck 'em anyway just for practice.

And GH, I believe those are sheep, nice, fat and juicy. Bring 'em, but they keep better refrigerated.
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Postby goathead » Tue May 25, 2010 3:20 pm

both are really good when cooked right.
:D
keep them on the hoof and then you don't need no refrigerator.
just lots of BBQ sauce.
:lol:
and FIRE....
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Postby jerroc » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:29 pm

As a parent I would not bring my kids to the BRC. I don't see why kids should be banned either. But the point being made that if a child does get hurt will be spot lighted and used as a reason for unwanted regulations is a valid concern. A parent should consider the BRC as a whole when making the choice. Weather its a healthy place a child. Well I don't think it is but that is why I chose to not bring mine along. its a good issue to bring up and to consider. I would be for some regulations in order to keep the " bad appples" in check as to not ruin the experience of the other family burners. Some people think regulations. might not be needed, but consider the result of the over protective regulations the burning man ORG will need to enforce to keep good P.R. in the case of a death or serious harm due to child neglect.
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Postby whaleboy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:01 pm

Can we look at things from the point of view, "the greatest good for the greatest number?" Most of the folks who go to the burn are adults. Most of the activities and art are intended for an adult perspective. A kid getting traumatized or hurt by all the stuff they don't understand that happens at the burn could be a reason for someone with an axe to grind to shut down the entire burn, or at least to heavily restrict it. Which is just as bad.

For me and for so many of my friends, the burn is a liberation festival. Here you can be what you are, largely unrestricted. The presence of rules intended to protect children stands in the way of that. In society at large, we have to accept many rules that are meant to meet the needs of the many, especially children, but at the burn, we are the self-selecting few. We few who like to be weird, who like to be what some would call unwholesome, who like to do things that aren't necessarily healthy, who like to do it our way. The presence of large numbers of children intereferes with the needs of the majority, mostly because of the risk of lawsuits.

Remember what a litigious society we live in. Yes, It's stupid, but it's real. Risk to all of us by some bad thing happening to one person's kid.

Personally, I do think it would have been wonderful to be a burner kid, sure I wish my parents had been burners (in the 50 and 60s???) but pragmatically speaking, I don't think its really a good idea for the long-term welfare of the event. Really. Most of what goes on is really intended for an adult audience, certain precocious and unusual youngsters notwithstanding. Most. It's for grownups. Are free bars novel and fun for kids? Is art that references some concept they'll not learn for ten years fun for them? Is liberated sexual exploration fun for them? Are anal sex training courses fun for them? Is meditation? Is swapping hard-earned experiences on how you built this awesome contraption or shade structure? Is trying some weird drug you've never heard of with a new friend? No, but it is for many of the rest of us. Come on, let's recognize what the event is and not endanger it.

I would consider bringing my not-yet-born children to the burn, but I think it would be much better to drop the kids off with grandma and just be at the burn with my girl, doing what we want, as late as we want, however we want. For one beautiful short week, and then getting back to the constancy of parenthood. It will be a week off where it's just about the two of us being ourselves in a temporary autonomous zone.

A good friend of mine was a hippie festival baby, dragged to a million rainbows by her hippie mom, and is kind of bitter about it actually. It was no place for her she says. She never wants to come to the burn...
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Postby Sail Man » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:31 am

whaleboy wrote:Personally, I do think it would have been wonderful to be a burner kid, sure I wish my parents had been burners (in the 50 and 60s???) but pragmatically speaking, I don't think its really a good idea for the long-term welfare of the event. Really. Most of what goes on is really intended for an adult audience, certain precocious and unusual youngsters notwithstanding. Most. It's for grownups. Are free bars novel and fun for kids? Is art that references some concept they'll not learn for ten years fun for them? Is liberated sexual exploration fun for them? Are anal sex training courses fun for them? Is meditation? Is swapping hard-earned experiences on how you built this awesome contraption or shade structure? Is trying some weird drug you've never heard of with a new friend? No, but it is for many of the rest of us. Come on, let's recognize what the event is and not endanger it.

I would consider bringing my not-yet-born children to the burn, but I think it would be much better to drop the kids off with grandma and just be at the burn with my girl, doing what we want, as late as we want, however we want. For one beautiful short week, and then getting back to the constancy of parenthood. It will be a week off where it's just about the two of us being ourselves in a temporary autonomous zone.

A good friend of mine was a hippie festival baby, dragged to a million rainbows by her hippie mom, and is kind of bitter about it actually. It was no place for her she says. She never wants to come to the burn...


Sucks to be you but my 7 yr old is going to his 3rd burn this year, as well as his 2nd regional in a few days.

Any parents that takes his kid into an adult oriented camp, or the camp that lets the kid in, should be banned.

There are plenty of activities at the burn to take kids to that do not involve sex or drugs. BTW, if your doing hard core drugs around your kids, you should be banned as well, after a swift kick in the nuts.

My son had a blast checking out the art cars, especially at night all lit up and spewing fire. He enjoyed the various trampolines we ran across. Playa putt putt golf. Climbing the dome made out of baseball bats. He also enjoyed kicking my butt with pommel sticks in center camp, courtesy of Death Guild. Hmmm, what else. Oh yeah, he also was intrigued watching Goathead turn water and playa dust into stones. He enjoyed the costumes, bikes, and playing with his friends in Kidsville. And the fact that he could eat all of the spaghetti o's he wanted to, whenever he wanted them.
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If we ban together we can save BM!

Postby Melvynman » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:42 pm

Ban the kids first.
The homo’s second.
Old naked guy’s third. ( I feel for those bike seats)
Got to get rid of the DWP workers they smell.
If Larry goes nude, him too.
Drunk guys with bullhorns.
Ban all spectators. I hate them!
Old women with tattoos.
Fat chicks.
Guys with boobs. Please get a bra, cover them up with something, its very distracting.
Who else can we ban?
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Postby Token » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:18 pm

Ban everyone from Orange County.
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Postby FaeTora » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:55 pm

People whose eyes will fall out if they view nude people.
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Re: If we ban together we can save BM!

Postby Fire_Moose » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:15 am

Melvynman wrote:Ban the kids first.
The homo’s second.
Old naked guy’s third. ( I feel for those bike seats)
Got to get rid of the DWP workers they smell.
If Larry goes nude, him too.
Drunk guys with bullhorns.
Ban all spectators. I hate them!
Old women with tattoos.
Fat chicks.
Guys with boobs. Please get a bra, cover them up with something, its very distracting.
Who else can we ban?



Sweet! I'll be second to last on the ban list!
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Postby Mojojita » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:56 am

"Any parents that takes his kid into an adult oriented camp, or the camp that lets the kid in, should be banned."

Sadly, that's one of the reasons that generally having kids around my camp on the playa makes me uncomfortable. I don't want to have to be the censor in my own camp in case someone brings a kid in or one just wanders in (which happens from time to time). I don't have an "adult oriented" camp, but I (emphasis on the I) get the heebie jeebies if a child is exposed to some of the things that roll through.

My kids certainly camp with me now, but I waited until they were nearly adults before inviting them.
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Postby Mojori » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:07 am

Sail Man wrote:
whaleboy wrote:Personally, I do think it would have been wonderful to be a burner kid, sure I wish my parents had been burners (in the 50 and 60s???) but pragmatically speaking, I don't think its really a good idea for the long-term welfare of the event. Really. Most of what goes on is really intended for an adult audience, certain precocious and unusual youngsters notwithstanding. Most. It's for grownups. Are free bars novel and fun for kids? Is art that references some concept they'll not learn for ten years fun for them? Is liberated sexual exploration fun for them? Are anal sex training courses fun for them? Is meditation? Is swapping hard-earned experiences on how you built this awesome contraption or shade structure? Is trying some weird drug you've never heard of with a new friend? No, but it is for many of the rest of us. Come on, let's recognize what the event is and not endanger it.

I would consider bringing my not-yet-born children to the burn, but I think it would be much better to drop the kids off with grandma and just be at the burn with my girl, doing what we want, as late as we want, however we want. For one beautiful short week, and then getting back to the constancy of parenthood. It will be a week off where it's just about the two of us being ourselves in a temporary autonomous zone.

A good friend of mine was a hippie festival baby, dragged to a million rainbows by her hippie mom, and is kind of bitter about it actually. It was no place for her she says. She never wants to come to the burn...


Sucks to be you but my 7 yr old is going to his 3rd burn this year, as well as his 2nd regional in a few days.

Any parents that takes his kid into an adult oriented camp, or the camp that lets the kid in, should be banned.

There are plenty of activities at the burn to take kids to that do not involve sex or drugs. BTW, if your doing hard core drugs around your kids, you should be banned as well, after a swift kick in the nuts.

. . .


Ad hominem attacks like this one on Whaleboy say to me that the attacking person doesn't want to communicate but rather, wants the person he is attacking to feel so hurt he will shut up and go away. Pity.

I thought Whaleboy's post was measured, thoughtful and displayed a lot of common sense.

For me the relevant issues are 1) The health of the children and 2) the chilling effect their presence does have on the adult focus of the event.

1) Children's lungs are nowhere as resilient or sturdy as those of adults. How many parents have talked to a pediatrician prior to coming to BM about the effect on their child's lungs of a dust storm comprised of particles as small as 3 microns in diameter? Have any of the parents posting here who are adamant about bringing their children along ever asked one? Any physicians reading these posts who could comment?

Particulate matter is often a factor in the onset of childhood asthma. I know. I had it as a kid. I've also heard, but can't prove, that particles as small as those that blast your face during a playa dust storm are too small for the lungs of ADULTS to effectively eject them through coughing or the formation of mucous. CANNOT be good for children.

Then there's heat stroke and dehydration, both dangers much more serious for children as their bodies have much less mass and so can heat up more quickly. In addition, being smaller, a child's body has less water in it to start with. I doubt any parent posting here or otherwise who failed to protect their child from even mild heat stroke or dehydration would be forthcoming about admitting that on this board.

Moreover, I just can't help but think that a fair number of parents that bring their children to Burning Man drink and drug. If one shouldn't drive while under the influence why would it be okay to be in charge of a child for seven days while immersed in a UNIQUELY inhospitable natural environment?

Certainly not all parents posting here drink or drug or are otherwise particularly irresponsible with their children but, come on, we all know a fair amount are. All the parents posting have been painting themselves as sterling examples of perfect parenthood. No doubt some are of course. But you gotta believe that at least some of ya'll bring your kids because you can't find or don't want to pay for a decent babysitter or are overly bonded with them and can't bear to have them out of your sight for a week. Is it really possible that simply being a parent automatically exempts you from the human vice of selfishness?

And, assuming it exists, dropping a child off at a qualified playa day care center can, unfortunately only somewhat mitigate the destructive effects on that child of irresponsible or selfish parents. The kid can't stay in day care all day and night.

2) I think Mojojita sums up so much in her excellent post. (And I'm not saying this because she has a way cool playa nickname! :D ) :

"Any parents that takes his kid into an adult oriented camp, or the camp that lets the kid in, should be banned."

Sadly, that's one of the reasons that generally having kids around my camp on the playa makes me uncomfortable. I don't want to have to be the censor in my own camp in case someone brings a kid in or one just wanders in (which happens from time to time). I don't have an "adult oriented" camp, but I (emphasis on the I) get the heebie jeebies if a child is exposed to some of the things that roll through.

My kids certainly camp with me now, but I waited until they were nearly adults before inviting them.
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Postby Sanddog42 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:00 am

Mojori wrote:Ad hominem attacks like this one on Whaleboy...

I don't see and ad hominem anywhere.
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Postby actiongrl » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:00 pm

Children all over the world live in deserts. Children all over the world hang out with groups of grownups engaged in grownup conversations and acts of expression. These are not reasons to ban children from an event where they've been welcome for 24 years.

Kids at Burning Man are Burning Man participants too. I'm always confused at the exact nature of these behaviors that people say they'll have to mediate because kids are around. My two year old could care less about your golf cart decorated to look like a giant penis, or you shouting "Fuck" through a megaphone (she'll probably hear worse at the playground); I haven't in 12 playa years seen much that would really amount to a hill of beans as far as my daughter's exposure is concerned.

I mostly keep my kid out of the camps of strangers so that nobody has to feel that they need to regulate their behavior in their own living space, but most things I wouldn't want my kid to see done on the streets of BRC are things that neither adults nor children typically want to have shoved in their face in public (live sex in the streets? Openly illegal acts? No thanks, wrong event!); other than that, I don't expect anyone to curb their behavior unless they are actually in my camp (where yes indeed, I really don't like people smoking cigarettes around my kid).
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Postby dr.placebo » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:28 pm

I may be taking the "community" aspect of TTITD too seriously, but for me having kids around is a great reminder of community.

I've seen happy and well behaved kids of all ages there. One year I was camped with friends (and their child) in Kidsville, and I thought it was great to see the children there. They were running around, interacting with the adults, playing with the art, and generally well cared for. They were unfazed by nudity or occasional profanity.

I do respect the decisions of parents who don't want their kids to be on the playa. That is their right. Usually one should honor the parents decisions, and should have very good reasons to override them. So I would think it rude to berate a parent who had brought a child, provided that the level of care was good.

Does it inhibit some people? I can't think of anything that is legal to do in public that the kids need to be shielded from (kids just giggle at flaming penises). And the other stuff should be kept in private. Not all adults want to have open sex and drugs, either. It's not just for the sake of the kids. Besides, the cops would still bust you even if kids were not present.

Yes, we are litigious as a society. So far, though, the only cases that I'm aware of all involved adults. Maybe we need more kids?
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Postby Mojori » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:52 am

actiongrl wrote:Children all over the world live in deserts.


Indeed they do. However, Black Rock Desert is not a desert. It is a silt, alkali, salt pan. Nobody on Earth lives in a silt, alkali, salt pan. Anywhere.

A desert is filled with life. Virtually, nothing grows in a sufficiently alkaline and salty expanse of land. Nothing. Black Rock Desert is such an expanse of land. Except for a single form of microscopic brine shrimp, it is virtually dead. Plus it's underwater several months out of the year. It is absolutely NOT a desert.

(I'm guessing it is called Black Rock Desert because it was named long ago by settlers who didn't know what the heck a silt alkali salt pan is. Either that or it's named Black Rock Desert because that's easier to say than Black Rock Silt Alkali Salt Pan!)

The point is, a child's lungs are nowhere near as resilient and sturdy as those of an adult. No doubt this is one reason populations of people would never inhabit a silt, alkali, salt pan. That and they would starve to death in short order. The dust that whips up off the surface of such an area is EXTREMELY fine -- down to a particle radius of only 3 microns in the Black Rock 'Desert'. Something 3 microns in diameter is getting close to the size of a virus.

Again, it's not clear that the lungs of an adult can eject such fine particulate matter through the normal mechanisms of coughing, mucous formation or sloughing off of dead skin cells. A child's lungs would CERTAINLY be more susceptible to any long term problems this would represent. A child's lungs are still forming. Particulate matter is often a factor in the onset of childhood asthma to name just one problem. Why put one's child at UNNECESSARY risk?

Have any of the parents who bring their children to Burning Man consulted with a pediatrician about this and other issues prior to coming? Please be truthful. And if any have, were the attendant issues of heat stroke and dehydration brought up as well?

Moreover, what do you think a pediatrician would have to say about the likelihood a child would we well looked after by a parent who's under the influence in an area as UNIQUELY inhospitable as a silt, alkali, salt pan?

I don't think these are peripheral questions.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus
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Postby actiongrl » Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:04 am

Wait, so now kids at Burning Man are a bad idea because obviously their parents are there to get wasted?

The one time in her six playa trips my child showed signs of dehydration, I had her packed in the car and off that playa within minutes. I radioed my crew on the way out that I was leaving two days early, leaving them with no manager to lead the teardown. I left Burning Man early (my job, mind you, not just my vacation) and headed straight for civilization, where her symptoms cleared up within two hours. We didn't return to the event, because my daughter is more important than anything else, including Burning Man.

I would never ever ever get into a circumstance or state of mind out there where I could not spring into appropriate parental action for my kid like that if I needed to. If your friends are doing otherwise, you should talk to them, but don't take your assumptions out on this mama.
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Postby Clar-i-ty » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:32 am

Oin in our rev
actiongrl wrote:Wait, so now kids at Burning Man are a bad idea because obviously their parents are there to get wasted?

The one time in her six playa trips my child showed signs of dehydration, I had her packed in the car and off that playa within minutes. I radioed my crew on the way out that I was leaving two days early, leaving them with no manager to lead the teardown. I left Burning Man early (my job, mind you, not just my vacation) and headed straight for civilization, where her symptoms cleared up within two hours. We didn't return to the event, because my daughter is more important than anything else, including Burning Man.

I would never ever ever get into a circumstance or state of mind out there where I could not spring into appropriate parental action for my kid like that if I needed to. If your friends are doing otherwise, you should talk to them, but don't take your assumptions out on this mama.


Well said actiongirl. Most parents on the playa are uber-parents. It takes a lot of diligence to be responsible for another life. And, as a result, my burner kids are far more diligent and aware of safety on the playa than most of the college kid that come in. Assuming that parents act with reckless abandon because they are in a party environment is wrong.

And why are so many people on this thread forgetting the first of the Ten Principles?

Cue organ church music.
(In mock southern accent)

My brothers and sisters, neighbors, join me as we recite the first principle of Burning Man, Radical Inclusion, ANYONE can attend Burning Man. And what did our forefathers mean by this? Did they mean only if you're a hot cutie? No. Only if you partake of thy vitamin E? No. Friends, radical inclusion means all peoples from all walks of life, may join in our celebration, lo they shall be shunned in the default world, in our community thou shalt not exclude.

Pause

Will the choir please stand, for today's hymn, written by the Sister Sledge, We are Family.

(Dropping the preacher voice)

Now get your effin tambourine and sing along.
GET OUT OF MY TRUCK HIPPIE!
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