ack is there any trutch to this website?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

ack is there any trutch to this website?

Postby Guest » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:56 pm

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Re: ack is there any trutch to this website?

Postby technopatra » Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:39 pm

allanon wrote:www.stopburningman.org


No.

We looked into it when we first heard about it. We emailed them to see where they were coming from, to see if we could talk to them, see if they knew something we didn't, and, surprise surprise, they never responded.

They offer no other contact info, and no way to validate or invalidate their claims. So given that they are both hiding behind their accusations and are unresponsive to us and other burners who've tried to contact them, we've shrugged it off as a hoax.
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Postby Badger » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:03 pm

We emailed them to see where they were coming from, to see if we could talk to them, see if they knew something we didn't, and, surprise surprise, they never responded.


WHY does this not surprise me in the least?
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Postby Dustdevil » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:20 pm

I cannot speak to all of what he says, but the reason the land speed record cars won't be there for a while has nothing to do with the surface. Craig Breedloves' sponsor is a little short of excess cash at the moment due to previous engagements. His main sponsor is the National Guard. And I don't believe the Brits need to come back to break their own record.
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Postby Tancorix » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:33 pm

It's all a bunch of lies...check out the bogus whois registration. The poster is full of crap.

Domain ID:D99684330-LROR
Domain Name:STOPBURNINGMAN.ORG
Created On:22-Aug-2003 19:28:23 UTC
Last Updated On:14-Dec-2003 03:10:42 UTC
Expiration Date:22-Aug-2004 19:28:23 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R34-LROR
Status:OK
Registrant ID:DOTR-00990929
Registrant Name:Stop BMorg
Registrant Organization:StopBMORG
Registrant Street1:2122 East Playa Street
Registrant City:Gerlach
Registrant State/Province:NV
Registrant Postal Code:89412
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.7755567890
Registrant Email:stopbmorg@hotmail.com
Admin ID:DOTC-03263577
Admin Name:Stop BMorg
Admin Organization:StopBMORG
Admin Street1:2122 East Playa Street
Admin City:Gerlach
Admin State/Province:NV
Admin Postal Code:89412
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.7755567890
Admin Email:stopbmorg@hotmail.com
Tech ID:DOTC-03263577
Tech Name:Stop BMorg
Tech Organization:StopBMORG
Tech Street1:2122 East Playa Street
Tech City:Gerlach
Tech State/Province:NV
Tech Postal Code:89412
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.7755567890
Tech Email:stopbmorg@hotmail.com
Name Server:NS1.PBP.NET
Name Server:NS1.ARXSYSTEMS.NET
Name Server:NS2.ARXSYSTEMS.NET


Sorry for the cross posting but enough is enough.
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You folks are the ones full of it

Postby stopbmorg » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:22 am

I host (well did until recently) the site in question. The Hotmail address is valid and NEVER EVER has there been any email from ANYONE about the site.

And there's not much to talk about anyway. We will NOT fall victim to the BMORG PR machine. The site has some preliminary photographic information. More will follow as more photos are located, scanned, digitized and so on.

The registrant information is hidden for damn good reason - because BMORG and their ilk may take personal, physical action against the site owner, or the company that hosts the site, or those who contribute photos, information, etc.

This isn't about retaliation (which is what BMORG or its followers might make it out to be) -- it's about exposing BM participants to the ugly but prevalent underbelly of their "paradise".
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Postby Dustdevil » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:02 am

Talk is cheap. Words from a hidden source are even cheaper. Your fears that people are coming to do physical harm look like a smoke screen. Put up or shut up.
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Postby Dustdevil » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:02 am

Talk is cheap. Words from a hidden source are even cheaper. Your fears that people are coming to do physical harm look like a smoke screen. Put up or shut up.
Those who think they can and those who think they can't are both right.
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Postby glam_daddy » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:13 am

there is plenty of trutch.

of truth however there is none.

thank you come again.
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Actually,

Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:01 pm

I kind of find it refreshing. Its obvious enough to see that's its heavily biased. Even irrationally biased, given the appearance of a slightly psychotic individual that may have had a bad experience with BM.

But he poses some questions.

Luckily enough, he presents them in such a manner as to discount any claims he makes (akin to discussing philosophy with someone wearing tinfoil on their head). But he (making assumptions on gender for writing purposes) points to areas where curious people can check out chinks in the armor of Burning Man's sterling image.

The way I see it, anything run by HUMANS is prone to imperfection. Let's face it folks, on the universal/nature/animal scheme of things- we are a bunch of asshole primates. Anytime I see a person or idea held up as perfection, warning bells start going off in my head.

Let Bubba here do the work for you. Look at what he has to say. Then discard it and find out for yourself. Just don't go the other direction to pscyhotic hatred if you find some truth. Anywhere humans settle, we fuck things up to some degree or another. It's what we do. Unless we give up all types of vehicles and become Jain monks, we fuck stuff up.
Last edited by Rob the Wop on Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby robotland » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:20 pm

Well said, Wopster....furthermore, those who attend The Event and take home a little piece of the Leave No Trace philosophy help make the rest of the world a little less Fucked Up, too.....But we'll ALWAYS be Fucking It Up somehow.....
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Postby blyslv » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:00 pm

It's probably someone who's favorite spot was co-opted by newcomers, an old sad story. But he does make some good points, if they are true. For example, I would share his concern about pumping. That can seriously screw up a water table and ruin an area.
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Anonymity is not a crime

Postby stopbmorg » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:51 pm

Nor does it make any sense, to a rational person, why anonymous information should be any less worthy than other information. Police accept and use anonymous tips all the time to solve crimes. The Cult of Larry is a frightening one. But the photographic evidence is right there at www.stopburningman.org. Like I said, it takes time to scan and obtain more photos.

None of them are faked or staged (like someone other than BMORG would dig up several hundred cubic yards of dirt at Frog Farm?).

The primary goal is to show the 30,000 participants the dark underbelly of the event. It would seem that the rabid support put forth by others here would be similarly indicative of the brainwashing or 'bad run in' that we are accused of. But I don't take it as that. I take it as people unable to see the truth and hope that people will step outside their "Larry/BMORG is perfect" boxes and take a look for themselves.

No one lost their "favorite spot". Room and space are not the issues here. Obviously open space is plentiful in the area. Pollution, degradation and worse the CULTISH PR SPIN TO COVER IT UP are what disgust me.

The Cult of Larry/BMORG is very much like that in Animal Farm. "All people are equal, but some are more equal than others", so to speak.

All in the name of turning a profit. Now, if you'll excuse me, you can return to your prattle and rancid disbelief in the face of evidence which I go deal with some other nonsense (like the paying off of Black Rock Friends to gain their final acceptance of BMORG and BLM plans for the event now, and in the future).
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:52 pm

blyslv wrote:It's probably someone who's favorite spot was co-opted by newcomers, an old sad story. But he does make some good points, if they are true. For example, I would share his concern about pumping. That can seriously screw up a water table and ruin an area.


The pumping is about the size of a hair on a nats ass. That is when you compare it to the water it take to farm in that area.
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Re: Anonymity is not a crime

Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:14 pm

stopbmorg wrote: you can return to your prattle and rancid disbelief in the face of evidence which I go deal with some other nonsense (like the paying off of Black Rock Friends to gain their final acceptance of BMORG and BLM plans for the event now, and in the future).


Foaming at the mouth is more likely to make me believe your facts are faked or staged.

Which sounds better to you-

A) "You are all idiot brainwashed sheep, afraid to face the real truth. Your tiny minds cannot comprehend the incredible evil that is Burning Man. Here is my proof-"

or

B) "I think Burning Man may be causing physical damage to the local environment. Here is my proof-"


Right now you are Captain Loopy Boy on a mission of destruction. Anything you say will be slanted or biased. A picture in the ground could be from a nearby mining community for all I know -all it takes is your attitude and one fudged fact and your mission is for fuck all. No one will believe you.
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Re: Anonymity is not a crime

Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:03 pm

stopbmorg wrote:Nor does it make any sense, to a rational person, why anonymous information should be any less worthy than other information.


So you're saying that information that comes from "nowhere", so that you can't verify how the person gained the information or what tools were used to gather the data, is just as valid as a research report from the EPA?

I deal with validation data on a daily basis. The tools used, environment in which the test was performed, and who performed the test is every bit as important as the data itself.

Same as some of the "information" you put forth. Are those spring pictures during the event? Do you have proof that the hole was dug by DPW? Does the "dedication" of the Earth Guardians take into account the fact that other Guardians may have been out in inclement weather? Unless we have access to the person that took the pictures, how do we know the background information?

I don't know either way, but so far I have a hard time trusting a damn thing you say.
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Postby stuart » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:27 pm

Nor does it make any sense, to a rational person, why anonymous information should be any less worthy than other information.


boy pal, you need some journalism 101

which do you believe
'anonymous white house sources'

or a named individual like, say, Paul O'neil

there is a reason why it is constitutionally gauranteed that we are able to face our accuser in a court of law.
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:00 pm

Mr. O'neal must have been threatened pretty good. He has put a couple of spins on the things in the book and what he said onTV. Old Rummy and Dick-chain were upset to no end.
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If you want to talk with those who have seen it

Postby stopbmorg » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:40 pm

Join the Yahoo group. You need to see this from our perspective.

Larry's goons are rabid, to the point that we would expect physical retribution for speaking truthfully and accurately in a public forum about various BMORG transgressions.

The prior actions and behaviors of BMORG and its followers did and do NOTHING to build ANY level of trust towards them. So we are to expose ourselves while the rest of the people here remain anonymously hidden behind their avatars? Hello pot? This is kettle...

The pictures of people in the springs were taken DURING the 2003 event. The picture of the car (funny how no one bothers to refute that, they just ignore it) with the BM-type logo on it was taken the morning that the "springful of people" pictures were taken.

The Frog Farm pictures -- well that can't be faked any way that I know of. Only BMORG has access to that land. Is the insinuation now that the heavy equipment and the leaky diesel tank could be someone elses?

No one knows who Deepthroat is/was, but we all know about Watergate. Perhaps it's time to stop drinking the Kool-Aid, and time to simply LOOK at the evidence being presented to you.
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Re: If you want to talk with those who have seen it

Postby unjonharley » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:05 pm

No one knows who Deepthroat is/was, but we all know about Watergate. Perhaps it's time to stop drinking the Kool-Aid, and time to simply LOOK at the evidence being presented to you.[/quote]

/
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Postby Rob the Wop » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:18 pm

I've heard that if you think you're insane- you generally aren't.

It's the ones that think they're ok that you have to worry about.

I think it will be kinda pointless to post to this thread anymore. Bubba won't listen to you, he will continue to insult everyone that he wants to listen to him, and he will probably never realize how much of a nutcase he sounds like. He can't spell and he has no grasp of logic beside his own twisted version.

Just give him rope. He'll hang himself soon enough.

Anyways, I'm outta here. It's now boring.
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well you dont beleive info? what info?

Postby allanon2 » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:35 pm

"So you're saying that information that comes from "nowhere", so that you can't verify how the person gained the information or what tools were used to gather the data, is just as valid as a research report from the EPA?

I deal with validation data on a daily basis. The tools used, environment in which the test was performed, and who performed the test is every bit as important as the data itself.

Same as some of the "information" you put forth. Are those spring pictures during the event? Do you have proof that the hole was dug by DPW?"


Response:
ASK DPW they will say they dug those holes. they did it to allow better water availability for the water trucks. just ask and they will say yes.




"Does the "dedication" of the Earth Guardians take into account the fact that other Guardians may have been out in inclement weather? Unless we have access to the person that took the pictures, how do we know the background information? "


response:
Well i took the pictures of the wimps at the sign in log nook.. not stopbmorg. so now will you beleive? you want every picture notorized? umm excuse me but is that realistic? lets rock. ask away and i will do my best to say why all that informaiton is true. or what have i called your bluff?





"I don't know either way, but so far I have a hard time trusting a damn thing you say."

response:
what do i need to do to get your "trust" and if i get your trust will you then beleive? and if so what will you do? will you ask burning man the dificult questions also?

ttyl
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Some more photos

Postby stopbmorg » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:30 am

I only have so much time to put photos up, but again if you hit the photos link off www.stopburningman.org you will see that I added a few more (art cars, visitors screwing up the springs at Trego, and an MASSIVE pit/scraping courtesy of DPW at Frog Farm.

If this is Leave No Trace, I'd hate to see what happens when you people leave a mess.
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Postby Tancorix » Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:54 am

I have 2 questions I am currently pursuing:

1: Does the use of "Burning Man" in the site name of www.stopburningman.org violate any legal usage of the Burning Man name? I know the org is very aggressive on protecting its use of the name and registered trademarks and feel this might be something worth a look by the legal team.

2: The use of falsified information in the domain registration violates the domain registration terms set forth by the registrar for the domain in question. A quick search of whois at Network Solutions shows the domain registrar to be: "Sponsoring Registrar:R34-LROR". Next a quick visit to: www.pir.org or the Public Interest Registry shows this site was registered by Dotster, Inc. Next I paid a visit to Dotster's site and found this little blurb:

>> 5.4 Information updating and accuracy obligations. As a condition to continued registration of your domain, you must keep the Registration Information current, complete and accurate. You may access your Registration Information in Dotster, Inc.'s possession to review, modify or update such Registration Information, by accessing Dotster, Inc.'s domain manager service, or similar service, made available at our Web site. In accordance with ICANN policies, you acknowledge and agree that if you willfully provide inaccurate information or fail to update your Registration Information promptly will constitute a material breach of this Agreement and may result in the cancellation of your domain registration. You further agree that your failure to respond in less than ten (10) calendar days to inquiries by Dotster, Inc. concerning the accuracy of the Registration Information associated with your domain registration shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement and will be sufficient basis for cancellation of your domain registration.

My point in posting this? If anyone else is as sick of this crap as I am, don't just grumble about it. Contact Dotster and challenge this guy's registration. If he's going to launch attacks I think he should have the balls to stand there and take credit for what he says. Right now this guy is hiding behind a bogus address, multiple sock puppets and he wants us to believe him? Enough. If he won't clean up his act, I for one intend to ask the registrar to investigate and if he doesn't check out...well 10 days from now the domain is history!
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downwithbm.oger

Postby enthropic » Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:21 am

stopbm.org......hu .??!.. :roll: umm. I Think sbm.oger is just mad her dad wouldn't let her hang out with the cool people..


But, You don't have to lie to kick it.

Get some new pictures that prove your point if you want to be taken seriously.

don't be so influenced by some random and isolated incidents that are a direct effect of a few uniformed people that do not represent all of us...

Just because you are a Sh*t talkin, name callin,problem startin ass, I will not change my view of the beautiful people of the Black Rock Area.

The pits look like more frog ponds.

The small amount of bathers look like they might be having fun.

More oil and gas got spilled during the setting of the land speed record that was set on site.

And who care about one art car, the police must not have..

A dumb ass or two so what..
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Re: well you dont beleive info? what info?

Postby Rob the Wop » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:32 am

allanon2 wrote:response:
Well i took the pictures of the wimps at the sign in log nook.. not stopbmorg.


So another anonymous sock puppet of WillSmallPenisRoger and stopbmorg agrees with the other parts of his split personality, and that makes a consensous? Jeez dude, you are losing it.
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the pics are frog pong as earth guardians to take a pic for

Postby allanon2 » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:32 am

one art car? lets say 10-15?

and anyway the point is they say one thing and do anouther
and you all line up behidn them and say yes daddy
we will listen on obey as long as we get our event
we will close a blind eye as long as we egt our event.

how open minded :)

so so sad. guess thta is what pot does to you. makes your mind a waste land

enthropic wrote:stopbm.org......hu .??!.. :roll: umm. I Think sbm.oger is just mad her dad wouldn't let her hang out with the cool people..


But, You don't have to lie to kick it.

Get some new pictures that prove your point if you want to be taken seriously.

don't be so influenced by some random and isolated incidents that are a direct effect of a few uniformed people that do not represent all of us...

Just because you are a Sh*t talkin, name callin,problem startin ass, I will not change my view of the beautiful people of the Black Rock Area.

The pits look like more frog ponds.

The small amount of bathers look like they might be having fun.

More oil and gas got spilled during the setting of the land speed record that was set on site.

And who care about one art car, the police must not have..

A dumb ass or two so what..
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Postby Chimp » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:08 am

AGAGHAHHHAHHHH, WHO IS THIS ARSE? Alannon2 wrote: -

and anyway the point is they say one thing and do anouther
and you all line up behidn them and say yes daddy
we will listen on obey as long as we get our event
we will close a blind eye as long as we egt our event.

how open minded

so so sad. guess thta is what pot does to you. makes your mind a waste land

What pot does to you? I was under the impression you must taking it intravenously while typing. Judging by your awful, nay, fucking abysmal even, hell, in fact one might go so far as to say 'remedial' fucking spelling.
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Want some more evidence?

Postby stopbmorg » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:44 am

www.stopburningman.org/images/northtree.jpg

Photo taken the day before the burn in 2002. North Tree fire, a BMORG contractor for fire suppression, came to Trego Hot Springs to take water for dust abatement (several of us stopped and spoke to the 2 NT personel in the truck). Taking water from a public spring in this manner is illegal. This incident was reported to BLM Rangers approximately 2 hours later, a complaint was lodged with the Winnemucca Field Office, a copy of this photo sent, along with a signed letter explaining the circumstances.

Luckily, the NT people weren't too smart because they asked "If we take water, are you going to tell anyone?" (indicating they knew doing so was wrong, or at least supporting an inference of such). "Yes" was all it took to send them back. It was also their own admission that they were there to tank up for dust abatement, NOT fire suppression.

Of course for $500,000, no action was taken. Not even a reprimand. How lovely.

In the end, THIS is the type of behavior your ticket fees support.
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Postby bushonk » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:36 am

How lovely indeed. Yeah that was a boner move of them to try to save some time, but unless you have some link to Harvey's "goons" motivating them to not act in accordance with the rules, that's not showing any fault of the BM organization.
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