Media = Observers

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Media = Observers

Postby Jaron » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:04 pm

The presents of the media this year greatly affected my experience on the playa. I found them to be invasive. Dailey I was being photographed by plain clothed people carrying press ID tags. The media was a Burning Man sanctioned group of observers publishing images for other observers. Does anybody else feel the same?
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Postby poisenloaf » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:43 pm

I couldn't believe they actually televised the burn.. when we came home, our parents said they had watched it on TV. I was like WTF?! I have mixed feelings about this as I feel almost as if you should have to come to BM to be able to witness it in all its glory..but in a sense, all the TV coverage and youtube videos do not do it justice anyway. And my burner friends who could not come actually had a burner party and were able to come together to watch it together which I think is great.
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Postby Toolmaker » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:57 pm

I kept a small jar of pee handy to toss on em when they tried to snap a pic w/o asking. I got 2 right in the face the first day.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:08 pm

What kind of presents were the media gifting us? I mean besides that ass who forced a Small Girl, Big Banana cd on me and filmed me coming out of the small boob.
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Postby Timezone LaFontaine » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:20 am

I think the media have a right to be there, but do they have to be so square? The only time I was really put off was when a plainly-dressed photographer informed me that he was going to be taking pictures of my hat. Not asking me if he could, but telling me that he would be. Whatever, buddy, maybe my elaborate hat design will cause some dendrites in your brain to connect up and inspire you to be a bit more creative and considerate too.
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Postby RedheadBarbie » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:18 am

[quote="theCryptofishist"]What kind of presents were the media gifting us? I mean besides that ass who forced a Small Girl, Big Banana cd on me and filmed me coming out of the small boob.[/quote]

I was there with media pass. I gave away about 40 handmade bandannas, and left a help youself bag of stuff in front of my tent. It had sunglasses, glowy things, more bandannas, little costume pieces, stickers, tatoos, flashlights, hand misters, fans, etc. I gave away several handmade costume items, all with a retail value over $50 each. I also took pictures of several people who didn't have a camera handy and gave them a website to get the pics. All who I interacted with were thrilled.

I also made 90% of the clothing two of us wore, we made a teardrop camper (How many others made their own dwelling???), and a shade structure from our own plans. Other plain clothes photogs I interacted with gave me a BM keychain, handmade necklace, hand printed bandannas, BM bottle opener and more I don't remember off the top of my head.

I'd also like to point out that photogs have to be approved based on the project they want to do. They approve you if you are artistic enough. You can't just go in and say I want to take pictures of tits.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:52 am

Besides, isn't it more or less the job of the media to "observe"? I don't really believe in the whole "objective" thing on certain levels, because it just means that the biases are hidden, but I don't know what else the media is supposed to do. I mean, maybe the Pope shouldn't be Catholic either.
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Postby Timezone LaFontaine » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:44 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I mean, maybe the Pope shouldn't be Catholic either.


Funny you should mention it, but I've been thinking the Pope should primarily be a gearhead, and take a more active role in customizing his Popemobile. If that comes at the expense of some scripture study time, well, everybody's gotta budget their time.

RedHeadBarbie, you're right. I think I only noticed that one photographer because he was the exception, not the rule, in my experience.
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Postby Damok » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:23 pm

Timezone LaFontaine wrote:I think the media have a right to be there, but do they have to be so square?


Why yes we do have to be square.. 8) Actually not all of us are square!


I understand people’s views on the media, some of them are asses but then there are asshole burners as well. Personally, we tried to be as transparent as possible however when photographing people and always try to make sure that people are ok with our photographing them.

On the media interacting.. We certainly did. I don’t really know how you could properly cover an event like burningman without interacting and participating!

“I kept a small jar of pee handy to toss on em when they tried to snap a pic w/o asking. I got 2 right in the face the first day.â€
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Postby RedheadBarbie » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:37 pm

[quote="theCryptofishist"]What kind of presents were the media gifting us?[/quote]

Oy vey!! Presents, I just got it. Still low on sleep clearly.

(And in case anyone else didn't, the OP said 'presents' not 'presence' as they should have.)
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Postby gyre » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:07 pm

Last year burning man had the top photographers sent in after first burn.
A lot of very serious photographers, including war correspondents.
I watched one spend a half hour on one piece of flame art in our camp.
I'm sure there are some incredible photos coming from last year.
Isn't that enough?
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Postby mars » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:53 am

RedheadBarbie wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:What kind of presents were the media gifting us?


Oy vey!! Presents, I just got it. Still low on sleep clearly.

(And in case anyone else didn't, the OP said 'presents' not 'presence' as they should have.)


Darn, RHBarbie, There ya go and ruin the fun!
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Postby mars » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:55 am

Agreed. They save the rest of us from having to take photos to show our mommies.
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Postby Toolmaker » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:03 am

Damok wrote:If you were to toss urine on someone (Like me for example) I would have had to go to the hospital and gotten an HIV test and guess who would get to pay that bill?? Not me I assure you!


I assure you that I wouldn't be paying a bill if you were to goto a hospital thinking that you could get HIV from something sterile. Educate yourself about HIV...and they wonder why I say the media speads disinformation more than not. What if ppl actually believed what you said about HIV and urine. Media folks need to be far more responsible before they should be trusted on the playa. BAN ALL CAMERAS!

Dr Robert J Frascino wrote:I should mention urine is a sterile fluid. It does not contain HIV. Contact with urine, therefore, does not constitute an HIV risk.


http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUT ... S/HIV.html

I do not like to be studied like I'm some kind of fuckin oddity. I have no love for the media no matter how much they "participate". You try to film or photograph me without asking you pay these days. Next year the cameras will be smashed. Go study the "freaks" at rainbow, our "freaks" may start fighting back against the invasion of cameras. Screw the ORG they can't dictate all my actions.
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Postby Damok » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:30 am

"Next year the cameras will be smashed"

Go ahead and smash my camera, I could use a new one anyways. You have an extra 5k don't you becuase thats what mine cost not to mention the lens's ...

And on the HIV thing, I assure you that If I went and got tested becuase you threw an unknown bodily fluid on me the courts would uphold my billing you for it.

You know you people trust us to go put our lives on the line of far off countries

Sudan
Iraq (Twice)
China
Algeria
Philippines
Rwanda
Tajikistan
Yugoslavia

but not to take photos on the playa... Idiots... Go some of the places I have been then talk to me about your idotic rights not to have a picture taken.
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Postby Damok » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:34 pm

As I said, I have no issues with someone turning in a press person who is acting inappropriately! Just because we are press, I certainly am not going to make a blanket statement that all press people will act appropriately! Not at all!!

Jaron stated in his post “The presents of the media this year greatly affected my experience on the playa. I found them to be invasiveâ€
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Postby RedheadBarbie » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:44 pm

[quote="Toolmaker"]Go study the "freaks" at rainbow, our "freaks" may start fighting back against the invasion of cameras.[/quote]

Are you a bigger freak? Am I not a freak? I would venture to bet that my list of qualifications is pretty long, longer than yours. That is unless you've had a sex change, then you win.
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Postby Damok » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:55 pm

Retaliation is a double edged sword! Keep in mind that should you decide to retaliate against someone taking your picture (Like me for example) that more likely than not, the photographer is probably going to retaliate as well. For example…

If you walk up to me and threaten to take my camera and smash it, that will be your last day at BM, as I will have you picked up and removed and charged with Assault.
If you actually attempt to take my camera and smash it here is what you get..

The attempt to take my camera by force is both aggravated robbery and battery. If you detain me in any way or by attempting to take my camera, prevent me from leaving the area, you can add kidnapping to that.

If you actually get me camera away from me (Which is unlikely) and smash it then you have criminal vandalism.

And those are only the criminal charges; the civil suit would also follow. Is having your picture taken and retaliating by taking their cameras really worth all that? Just turn them in, we can be removed from BM for not following the rules!
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Postby gyre » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:02 pm

FYI a pro camera is an effective weapon in a street fight.
Even a D80 works, though you will crack the plastic housing.
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Postby Damok » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:05 pm

gyre wrote:FYI a pro camera is an effective weapon in a street fight.
Even a D80 works, though you will crack the plastic housing.



HAHAHA, I wasn't even going to go there.. :lol:

One of the cameras we still shoot with is a Kodak Professional DCS760. The damn thing must weight 10 pounds and would probably take someones head off if swung hard by the strap.. But then I would probably get arrested for assault with a deadly weapon!
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Pissing contest...

Postby honeyfire » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:58 pm

*barking dogs*
I'm just trying not to be liveMOOP...

Civil rights: use 'em or lose 'em!
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Postby ZaphodBurner » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:03 pm

Actually, throwing urine on someone can be considered assault, and if somebody does it to you you can defend yourself.

On Friday some plain-clothes dude wandered into the Orgasmateria during a couples seminar, apologized for interrupting and asked if he could take a picture. Since half the people were blindfolded, tied up and at least partially naked, the reaction was fairly severe.

If you observe people over the week, you WILL see spontaneity and unguarded behavior mitigated by the number of plainclothes-wearing camera-carrier arrivals. The imagery is nice but it waters down the actual experience.

Running around wearing a tutu or stilts or whatever is different because at that point you're participating beyond artistic shutter voyeurism. People are a little more willing to trust you and less likely to hide if they figure you're one of them. So maybe the general tourist/media/camera complaint has much more to do with the plain clothes, artless golfcarts and huge ass cranes filled professional spectators than it has to do with burners who are also media.

-c
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Postby fciron » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:23 pm

I interacted with several folks with media tags and all of them were quite pleasant.

RHB, I saw that homemade tear-drop trailer pulling in and it was bitchin'. I am sorry I didn't get to experience your presence and presents.
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Re: Pissing contest...

Postby gyre » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:24 pm

honeyfire wrote:*barking dogs*

It's funny.
I get that all the time, right up to the point where things happen.
I usually try to encourage it, unless I'm about to pull the trigger.
Good tactical advantage.

Cops tell me the most common last words in shootings are "Shoot me, motherfucker!"

And I know for a fact that a D80 can be cracked in a fight.
It wasn't a media issue.
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Postby RedheadBarbie » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:11 am

fciron wrote:RHB, I saw that homemade tear-drop trailer pulling in and it was bitchin'. I am sorry I didn't get to experience your presence and presents.


Thank you! It's a work in progress. She did pretty well for her first run. We had three small repairs. I'm glad I didn't get around to putting the real paint on because it was totally trashed by the time we got back. The little grocery getter pulled her just fine even at 70mph with no vibration and still got about 22 mpg. The best thing is that through the walls, you really don't hear much noise, unless it's Led Zeplin.
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Postby Damok » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:03 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:On Friday some plain-clothes dude wandered into the Orgasmateria during a couples seminar, apologized for interrupting and asked if he could take a picture.


Now that is wrong! This is where I totally understand peoples anger. I really don't get why people just have to take a picture of someone when they are nude, its almost like a damn compulsion! Personally I don't have a problem with nudity and think that people in the US are far too uptight about it, but never the less, given our current social climate regarding nudity, Its inapropriate! Especially in a private atmosphere such as within a camp.

Isn't there enough porn on the internet to look at?? I mean geeze for only $3.95 a month you can get all the porn you could ever hope to see, so why piss people off by taking nude pictures of people who clearly do not want to be photographed??
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Postby camp-photon » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Burning Man is a temporary community that springs up in the dust and returns to dust in a very short time. Burners with cameras who document the event are an important participants and sacrifice just like a sculptor, performance artist or any other artist out there. Many participants put on a fir bikini or funky costume and actually feel appreciated, even validated for being singled out by a professional with a camera.

Obviously there is a right way and a wrong way to break out a camera. The sheer volume of picture takers visible by Friday starts to get overwhelming for everyone.

In 2008 I noticed a bad vibe from only one guy who happened to be in a back lit image I shot of a crowd of moving bicycles. It was pointless to explain to him that he was a moving target in front of the sun in a crowd shot with a wide angle lens.
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:46 am

For all those whose mother just let them out of the basement for the first time: It's a public event! If you don't like public events, then stay home!
Please to visit PAGE TWO.
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Postby rodiponer » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:09 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:...
It's a public event! If you don't like public events, then stay home!

Andie Grace wrote:...
We’re proud that Black Rock City (a private event held on public land) is widely acknowledged as a bastion of creative freedom.
...
After all, Burning Man is a private event (with 40,000 of your closest friends).
...

http://blog.burningman.com/?p=4599

Photography can be, at times, unpious. Disrespectful of the moment. Rude. It imposes an extra layer of awareness on the subject, a reminder of that moments place within the much larger context.

Imagine a video taped yoga class, or any exercise class. Very few people could do that without being self conscious, and the camera would wreck the experience.

This will be my first time at the event, but I do know there are times when a camera is intrusive. And so the photographer, if they have any class or empathy at all, must be very thoughtful.

While the thoughts that "it's my art" and "but some people like it" are blatantly stupid, I like "there are people out there with cameras, deal with it [you sniveling pussy]" because it lacks empathy and class. But for me, as an individual, I hope to push myself to be a better person than that.
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Postby Igneouss » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:34 am

This thread is hilarious.

25,000 people will bring cameras to BM. The 0.1% that are 'media' are not the problem. They know their business are are most likely to not be intrusive and to ask permission.

It's the other 24,800 that you gotta worry about. They are the ones that will snap a pic of you doing something illegal and post it on the internet.

AND, anyone that thinks they can control weather or not they get photographed is attending the wrong event.

You will be photographed. You will not know it most of the time. The photos will end up on the web. Got it? Can't handle it? Don't attend. It's that simple.

BTW I just looked at Flickr - there are one half MILLION images associated with Burning Man posted on Flickr. That's "Million". That exactly quatifies ones' expectation of privacy from cameras at BM. And that was just Flickr. I'll bet there are over 2-3 million if you added up all the major photo sites.

Cheers
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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