Will the Org respond to the 2.0 controversy?

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby EvilDustBooger » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:29 am

I think you're seeing a very mediated exception to our rules, and not a new rule outright.


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Postby Isotopia » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:31 am

Instead of exploring Linden Lab's world we can create something with a partial reality base and then extend it from there....


God knows you've got enough experience in that area.
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Postby Archantael » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:39 am

Isotopia wrote:
Instead of exploring Linden Lab's world we can create something with a partial reality base and then extend it from there....


God knows you've got enough experience in that area.


I certainly do, and I'm not afraid to use it either as you well know. Now let's move this dicussion back on track and keep the personal stuff out of it. The topic is too important to let it degenerate into a flame war.
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Democracy?

Postby Q » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:32 am

Chicken, when you say "democracy", what form of democracy do you mean?

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Postby Teo del Fuego » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:13 pm

for those of you who think post-count means anyhting other than a boring day job and OCD, please observe that Chicken John's post count is under 50. I agree with what he said and, after the outcome of the 2005 Borg2 ruckus, I think his words count more.

Now Chicken, IF you'e elected major can I serve as your deputy assistant in charge of someting or the other, see I had a really bad year last year and......
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Postby Dork » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:36 pm

The nice thing about Chicken's rants is you can pick and choose what you think is serious and what is satire, and therefore agree with it all no matter how nonsensical it might be.

Journalists should just be nice and repeat what is told to them without interpretation or context? That's called propaganda. If that's what BMORG wanted they should have just written the thing themselves and paid for it to be published.
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Postby DaBomb » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:46 pm

Dork wrote:Journalists should just be nice and repeat what is told to them without interpretation or context? That's called propaganda. If that's what BMORG wanted they should have just written the thing themselves and paid for it to be published.


I'm stuck on the word "nice". Nice to whom? Their readers? Their interviewees? What do you mean context? What if the magazine had been about art? Technology? Fashion? Automobiles? Since CJ hasn't actually read the article, can he even opine about it? Like was the B2.0 article "mean" as opposed to "nice"?

Regardless: BMorg invited B2.0 to sit down with them and have a chat.

Oh, and CJ, you have my vote.
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Postby Dork » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:58 pm

DaBomb wrote:I'm stuck on the word "nice". Nice to whom? Their readers? Their interviewees? What do you mean context? What if the magazine had been about art? Technology? Fashion? Automobiles? Since CJ hasn't actually read the article, can he even opine about it? Like was the B2.0 article "mean" as opposed to "nice"?

Regardless: BMorg invited B2.0 to sit down with them and have a chat.

Oh, and CJ, you have my vote.

I was referring to CJ's comments, not necessarily the article itself. And I don't even know if CJ meant any of it seriously.

By "nice", I mean allowing themselves to be tools of the people they're interviewing. That's what I got out of CJ's post - that the media should only print what BMORG wants them to print, using their carefully spun words. It bugs the hell out of me when reporters do that in other areas, particularly politics. There's often no analysis of whether what someone says is actually correct and complete, and manipulative language is repeated.

By context I mean basically what you're saying - it's a business magazine, so he needed to use business lingo and tell the readers how the subject relates to them. An article in an art magazine would have a different type of slant. A friendly neighborhood podcast might just let them say what they wanted to say and have listeners call in the following week if they disagree :)
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Larry Harvey Brands the Playa

Postby Sudden Disruption » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:01 pm

OK. I admit it. I haven't had time to read ALL the comments on this topic so don't bother to flame. I have too much to get done in the next 30 days as it is, but I'll state my opinion anyway. I'm not down with this Green Man theme. Not only is it a bit dated, it's far too politically polarizing for the playa. It's almost like having a theme of the Iraq War. Besides, lots of "Green" stuff is simply flaky.

For instance, I think carbon offsets are a first class commercial scam. They are offered so the worst offenders can pay someone ELSE to clean up THEIR mess. It reminds me of how rich kids bought their way out of the Civil War draft, paying others to die for them. Or how the Pope sold "indulgences" in the 16th century so those who could afford it could go on sinning.

As to all the rest of this energy stuff, I think it's cool. When truly green technology can stand on it's own merits, THEN we'll have a real solution. For me the playa is about sharing ideas -
what better ones to share?

And even if I didn't like what's being put at the Green Man pavilion, I wouldn't object. If this is what Larry Harvey wants to do, I think he should be allowed to express himself like anyone else even if it IS on a larger scale than most of us can afford. Cut the man some slack - chill. He's earned the right. Let's see where he goes with it.

And yes, he (and everyone else) have built a brand - I don't think we could have stopped it. When you get this much psychic energy going in one direction (or many directions as in the case of Burning Man), a brand will come into existence whether you slap a label on it or not. It's in people's heads. After that, it's just a matter of what you do with the label. And so far I think Larry's managing the label pretty well.

I for one am looking forward to visiting the pavilion. So if he wants to show off windmills, buy carbon offsets or even sign his name to the playa in big black letters, I'd help him.

Besides...

I like the way he writes...
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Has ‘The Man’ Infiltrated Burning Man?

Postby DaBomb » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:06 pm

"10 Zen Monkeys" is -- rather ironically -- the title of R.U.Sirius' blog. He recently posted about his chat with the Hatted One.

Worth a read: http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2007/08/02/has-the-man-infiltrated-burning-man/

He also did an interview with Chicken John as well. Worth a listenin' cuz they talk a lot about the SF arts community, the Burning Man community and his run for Mayor.

Worth a listenin' to: http://www.rusiriusradio.com/2007/07/31/show-122-san-francisco-mayoral-candidate-chicken-john/

drink! drink!

Ook! Ook!

Eeeeaaw!
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Postby Toolmaker » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:30 am

I dig the fire shooting slug. The pavillion adhering to the principles is a huge undertaking. I really hope they manage not to have it like a trade show collection of booths. The couple things I was lucky enough to glimpse like the slug/recycler have interesting concepts shown. I look forward to at least checkin MetaM out. Kind of a double edged sword, to survive and be reliant without technology as the world is now. Drastic changes must be made to the way we do things. I just hope steps are taken soon, I applaud companies that take it serious and stand behind the technology. Not what happened with Ford where the cars were TAKEN from those that wanted to keep em. Granted they were not purchase contracts but the option should have been made available to those willing to purchase electrics. I do like seeing more folks out there gettin into things like CFLs and the landfills that harvest gas etc etc. Something is better than nothing.
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Postby cabiria » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:28 pm

>And even if I didn't like what's being put at the Green Man pavilion, I wouldn't object. If this is what Larry Harvey wants to do, I think he should be allowed to express himself like anyone else even if it IS on a larger scale than most of us can afford. Cut the man some slack - chill. He's earned the right. Let's see where he goes with it.<

That's great! I hadn't looked at it ~that~ way before but you're right. Hell yeah. If Larry and the Bmorg want to express themselves they've surely earned that twenty-fold.

Weird though, Don't they have ~enough~ friends to help them with that? What's up with that?

They had to hawk it to strangers? Weren't their friends (drink) good enough?

I've read here and on Tribe numerous times expressions of "you should trust us" or "you should have faith" in the BMorg.

I see it in the reverse. I see the Bmorg call for outside help with their project as complete and utter lack of of faith in ~us~. Us being the demographic, ~those~ people.
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Postby Bob » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:51 pm

Huh? People beat down their doors looking to put one giant paperweight or another on the playa. More than 600 theme camps this year. They aren't hurting for people seeking permission to get recognition.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby MozyBonz » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:54 pm

OK then.
Hey maybe I can get some corporate sponsorship to build new bigger better art.
Larry has opened the door for us… Right?

We just need to make sure neither Burning Man, nor Black rock citizens don’t represent their target demographic. And Lets see and no use of logos, the display of brands and any sort of sales representation on the art.


Simple….

If Larry can do it so can I…. Right?



Thanks I am on it.


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Really it's the “do as I say not as I doâ€
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Postby cabiria » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:11 am

-----Huh? People beat down their doors looking to put one giant paperweight or another on the playa. More than 600 theme camps this year. They aren't hurting for people seeking permission to get recognition.---


No, they're not hurting for anything. Their Green Theme will be amazing this year. They asked their citizens to step up for this important world thingy. I bet the citizens will.



I just don't understand why the BMorg thought they needed to sell the idea to corporations, green or not, when what they seek is right under their noses.

It's just weird to me, and it would take a lot of convincing to make me understand it. I'm not so bright, but I'm just bright enough to know when I'm being talked down to.
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Postby Toolmaker » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:56 am

[quote="MozyBonz"]OK then.
Hey maybe I can get some corporate sponsorship to build new bigger better art.
Larry has opened the door for us… Right?

We just need to make sure neither Burning Man, nor Black rock citizens don’t represent their target demographic. And Lets see and no use of logos, the display of brands and any sort of sales representation on the art.


Simple….

If Larry can do it so can I…. Right?



Thanks I am on it.


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Really it's the “do as I say not as I doâ€
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Postby Bob » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:33 pm

BRAF doesn't fund art at Burning Man.

And Ford isn't the company which allegedly killed the electric car.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby Toolmaker » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:54 pm

Bob wrote:BRAF doesn't fund art at Burning Man.

And Ford isn't the company which allegedly killed the electric car.



This is a perfect example why youngsters should stay away from drugs. Memory loss etc on my part, just checked an indeed it was GM and not Ford that had the car project. Since BRAF doesn't do playa projects I guess that leaves "fundraisers".
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Response to LH, re Google Worship

Postby Wildman » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:26 pm

A few days ago, after hearing about the Business 2.0 article and the ensuing controversy, I took the time to read Larry Harvey’s response to criticisms that have been made of BMORG, and of him personally (response pasted below). The criticisms ran the gamut, from snarky broadside attacks on the BMORG, to shrieking accusations of “sell outâ€
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Postby Lassen Forge » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:41 pm

Damn Larry... ya keep that up it's awful hard not to like you!

Not that I didn't like ya before, but that's pretty brilliant stuph. Change the Default world? Well, my dear... ya have. For better or worse, your experiment did just that. I kinda like to think, in general, it did so for the better. No shit.

What I wanna know - this close to the 07 kickoff - is whaddya have in the back of your mind for 08? I hate to say it but after this I am farking intrigued.

Now if I can only git ya to quit smoking. Hell, I got Killbuck to quit. I got *me* to quit. If I could get both of us to give it up, him hiz cigars and me 2 pax a day, well... you may be next. (Just be glad I'm not one of the first camp crowd... yet... heh heh heh...)

hugz,
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Postby Isotopia » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:45 pm

What I wanna know - this close to the 07 kickoff - is whaddya have in the back of your mind for 08?


I spoke to The Hat last night at Actiongirl and Tom's housewarming party.

A few glasses of port and he's spilling the ALL the secrets.

The theme for 2008:






























Clownhenge.

(shhhh! don't tell anyone. It's OUR little secret. OK?)
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:59 pm

well now, this thread is great and enlightening and has all the super stars in it.



Thanks for the awesome read.


I cant believe Larry posted and even Techno and Stuart................ I'm about to faint.


Will Mike, the danger post here also?

Be nice if Miss P and a few others had something to say about the topic.


Thanks bmix.
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Postby Archantael » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:09 pm

DVD Burner wrote:well now, this thread is great and enlightening and has all the super stars in it.


Who do you consider "super stars"? And why would one person's opinion excluding Larry's carry any more weight than anyone else's?

(I'm just curious which is why I'm asking)
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Postby DVD Burner » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:23 pm

Archantael wrote:Who do you consider "super stars"? And why would one person's opinion excluding Larry's carry any more weight than anyone else's?

(I'm just curious which is why I'm asking)



The question is off topic but I'll answer anyway.

I saw Flash a few months ago and talked to him about why Larry and the inner circle dont spend any time on eplaya?

Wrong person to ask but at least I could ask one of the inner circle ( if they dont like that term, lets say, "the originals".) why they dont participate on eplaya?

it is very important for the org to participate in the eplaya community.

At least Flash has someone do it for him on Tribe.

That is all i want to post about this. I think the topic at hand is far more important.

i made a suggestion a few years ago about BMORG doing something to encourage new green ideas. The BM community has tons of intelligent engineers and artists that can make a difference in the world.


That is all.


Nothing to see here, move along people.

As Mr. K. would say, "I'm stepping down off the soapbox now".
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Postby Lassen Forge » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:51 am

Isotopia wrote:
What I wanna know - this close to the 07 kickoff - is whaddya have in the back of your mind for 08?


I spoke to The Hat last night at Actiongirl and Tom's housewarming party.

A few glasses of port and he's spilling the ALL the secrets.

The theme for 2008:




Aww.... now ya've gone and made 'im spill the beans. Now he's gonna have to think up a new theme. (Harrumph!)

How about something from Lewis Carroll? heh heh heh...

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Postby Isotopia » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:33 pm

How about something from Lewis Carroll? heh heh heh...


The Bunny Hole fits the bill and has a sexy ring to it.
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Postby karine » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:41 pm

Wait a minute. Tom & Actiongirl had a housewarming?
Dang.
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Postby Isotopia » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:16 pm

Tom & Actiongirl had a housewarming?


Um, yep. All the big, mean, nasty BM business tycoons were there with their back door meetings about the new Business Plan(TM) for 2008.

The liquor was spilling over as everyone lit big 'ol fat, stinky, cigars with crisp 100's from the ticket monies raised this year.

The only green to be seen was the Midori that was in the margaritas.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:54 pm

Mmmmmmmm... Stinky Cigars.... Arglglrff....

They put Midori in the Margaritas? Noooo....
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Postby helitack » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:06 pm

...I AM one of the superstars...
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