Business 2.0 Article

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby Fat SAM » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:15 am

That's great, Mel. Really great. And I'm glad you say you're a Buddhist. That really lends you an air of credibility here. But, ah...again...and I think you're a great resource for this question...

All the technology is going to be available for us to take home and recreate on our own, right? Free of charge? Save the world and all that?
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Postby DaBomb » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:38 am

Fat SAM wrote:Marion makes it quite clear in the article to whom Burning Man belongs...


A direct quote from Maid Marian:

"Burning Man is more than just an event in the desert. We are all members of a greater community. It takes a great deal of work and collective coordination to bring Burning Man to fruition each year. Your role as artist, theme camp creator, pre-event or onsite volunteer, ranger or musician is critical to creating a safe, expressive and commerce-free community."

And in response to the comment about "not volunteering": I agree.
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I think there are two messages in the article...

Postby farhad667 » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:08 pm

I read the article a second time, carefully, and I think I know why something in me loved what it was hearing the first time, while fearing what it was reading...

The guy who wrote it, Chris Taylor, is a 7 time burner according to his bi-line after the article, but he got the ticket prices completely wrong in the article (i.e. $250 in January and $400 at the door... whereas it's $198 in January and $280 at the door). This clues the aware into possibly a double message article... (i.e. one message for real Burners who at least know the ticket prices, or know Larry Harvey (have read / heard what he has to say / his vision / how he talks) and can understand the subtle puns and jokes, and another for Yuppie, faux-burner Business 2.0 types... or the masses that go there or are thinking of going there for a "vacation"... for 1 week out of the year before returning to the "nasty world" (that they help create).

Since I am a tweener... i.e. have a little bit of both in me, I can see both messages very clearly:

As I read it again, the article is full of "subtle" clues... I mean in the first paragraph we hear the "Maid Marion" had a lot of jobs among them "Department of Defense contract work"... You mean the BM "CEO" was a Defense Contractor??? (Even if true, its inclusion is a bit of BM comedy, I assure you.) Later on we meet a corporate advertiser, a "Mr. Cheney -- who exists btw --. only to learn that he is looking for "good publicity." (funny no?)

Then you have all the mock business prose... that, read carefully with the right ear, is pure comedy:
-- "Branding's important, " Goodell says... Ha Ha Ha... BM is a no LOGO culture... i.e. Branding is important NOT TO DO.
-- "This community is a dream for anyone looking at demographics," Goodell says. "We have kids who work in coffee shops and we have billionaires." -- Again, that is an absolute NIGHTMARE for marketers... wtf do you "sell" to such a diverse group? Marketing is all about "targetting" a specific demographic...
-- BM is a "$10MM operation... [with profits] comfortably above $50,000 since 2005" That's a whopping 0.5% profit! If you were serious you'd say BM is a $10MM operation BARELY breaking even...
--- But, "It's a good business," says one venture capitalist who has examined the company's financial record" WHAT?? Makes no sense. It's not a good business by business standards at all..

So, maybe It IS a good business by other standards... So what type of "business" is it good at? Again, cluing the "hearing ear" to a second massage.

Larry Harvey comes to the rescue with this gem of a "double" entendre:
-- "Disneyland this ain't: "Theirs is a spectacle entirely for consumption; ours is based on interaction and communal effort. It's Disneyland turned inside out."

-- well, is it? I think over the years it's become more and more "spectator" place... and that is part of the problem.

So, basically it is clear that to many people (old timers), Burning Man has become too big to cultivate what it's real "business mission" is : interaction and community.... So: The message is... we've gone corporate, we're "burning the man"... Now, all the old-timers / true burners can break out and create smaller "regional burns." They won't do that as long as "Larry Harry" (or "The Man" behind the Man) exists... But, the "business plan" doesn't need Larry Harvey," we hear in the last paragraph of the article. What does that mean??? Well... YOU can be your own Larry Harvey. In fact, the aricle ends with a small declaration, as if it just wants to set you free: "Larry Harvey Does Not Exist"!!! Now you can go on and do your own thing. They also say... as long as the LLC (company) exists, Burning Man -- the centralized and now corporatized entity -- will exist... but, if enough Burners get fed up and decide to do regionals that are more "true to the origins" of BM... the central LLC will go bankrupt "perhaps for one last time." What does that mean? BM doesn't need money... it is always "almost bankrupt" that way... People fuel it... at the regional level that can happen again... until those grow too big and need to be "burned" and fractured again. In this way, I think it is the hope of the founders to have a scalable (as in fractal) "business model" to spread BM and have it take over, all over, all the time. Going from 1 place, for 1 week (time) out of the year... to many places, many times out of the year.

Bascially, as they state literally, but somewhat opaquely in the article: they are FEARLESSLY destroying Burning Man to HOPEFULLY "Save the Planet" (i.e. free people all over the place create regional burning mans that will then expand and help their local communities get the BM spirit.

Or as the last paragraph elequently sums up: "And what of Burning Man itself? Harvey sees the event continuing for another decade or so, at which point spinoffs - the so-called regional burns - can take over. By then, he says, there'll no longer be a need for a single, central Burning Man organization. But Goodell demurs. "The business model can totally function without Larry Harvey," she says. "As long as the LLC exists, the event exists." As if to underscore her point, the enigmatic sign above the door to her conference room reads, "Larry Harvey does not exist."

This is a brilliant and risky move that completes a statement started 10 years ago when BM formed an LLC (or went corporate). It also jives beautifully with last year's theme... Last year we had to deal with "The Future : Fear and Hope" (two poles). This year we have to deal with the same thing... The Green Man : Green or Green (as in Greed).

It's up to us...

much love!

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Re: I think there are two messages in the article...

Postby EB » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:03 pm

farhad667 wrote:The guy who wrote it, Chris Taylor, is a 7 time burner according to his bi-line after the article, but he got the ticket prices completely wrong in the article (i.e. $250 in January and $400 at the door... whereas it's $198 in January and $280 at the door).


Not true. Tickets were $400 at the gate this year. I should know, I paid it. I had to sell my original ticket due to work conflicts, then I found out I could go, so, yeah, $400 at the door. (They're also as low as $145 in Jan, no?)

Not really buying the whole "dual message" wink-wink take, FarOut. Respectfully, I think you're seeing a purse in a sow's ear.
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Re: I'm a sucker for interaction

Postby EB » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:43 pm

melo wrote:I didn't enter this conversation to try to influence you folks, at least not anymore than you entered it to influence people.


Untrue. You entered the conversation to defend the BM Org's position of bringing in (quietly) corporations to demonstrate their cleantech (your word products) by evidenced of your earlier post:
melo wrote:Why should they (cleantech companies) deprive customers of their products in order to bring or donate them to Burning Man?

C'mon, Melody, we may be dumb but we ain't stupid. You're a PR exec doing your job. We all have default jobs, too, don't worry about it.

melo wrote:My daughter's an artist and a dedicated Burner. Yes, I've been to Burning Man. No, I do not pretend to understand this many-legged beast. But having spent a decade in a Zen community, I'm not a fan of rigid adherence to even the finest of philosophies.


Are these your "burner" bona fides? Uh, okay. Again, this just comes across as pandering to a group you're not quite familiar with. If you've been (and I'll take you at your word) then you know just how diverse the population of BRC is. Telling me that you're into Zen does nothing for me. Although I did enjoy the "Zen of Piglet."

melo wrote:And having had to make a living for my family in the corporate world, I'm pretty sure there is room at the edges to use the machine without getting gobbled up by it.


Many of us make our living in the corporate world. That's a fact of life. We're not luddites, Melody, we just would rather leave all of that behind us for the week. Do you really believe that Burning Man and Corporate America can co-exist? Really? I do not. It's a sad, slippery slope. Most of us who are concerned are concerned BY THE PRECEDENT. The Burning Man ethos, that is, the Burning Man brand is something a company would kill for. Larry and Marion are brokering relationships based on the backs of countless volunteers and artists (like your daughter) in violation, at least in spirit, of their own Ten Principles. Doesn't that strike a chord with you? You're only a virgin once and it looks like this was the year for the deflowering (and during Green Theme no less!)

melo wrote:I don't claim that the process doesn't change me, you, Burning Man or whoever plays in the middle. But we own our own souls. I doubt that Burning Man's soul is so fragile, precisely because of people like you who question everything. I'm a fan of questioning.

(Ok, yes, I'm a Buddhist and yes, there's no such thing as a soul but, hey, you know what I mean).


Sorry for intimating in an earlier post that you were a douchbag. That was immature of me and lowered any credibility I had been attempting to earn.

melo wrote:I didn't join this thread to be preaching. I'm just standing up for my own integrity and that of my firm (I can't be quite as sure about all of our clients but on the whole they're pretty good or they'd choose a slicker PR agency). I'm perfectly willing to engage in conversation and listen to what any of you have to say.


From your post, Melody, I truly feel you are conflicted with your position here. You've been to the event, obviously your daughter's heavily involved, can't you see our point? It's not that we don't want to be Green or whatever, it's that we don't want a schism in our cool camping trip. Personally, what I MOST LOVE about the event is that there's NOTHING ELSE like it. I see things that blow me away. I see things that deeply offend me. I meet people from all over the world that are brought here by a deep clarion call of Freedom in all its forms.

Do you not see why we would all fight to protect this thing? Our thing?

melo wrote:By the way, I have nothing to do with the pavilion, though I hope letting BMorg use my name has helped stimulate proposals. I've done a lot of intros to companies who will be donating or loaning technology, such as the new LED event lighting. My clients and friends are mostly doing installations, like the AmoSphere dome (a glowing earth hemisphere on the playa), a solar carport that will become a glowing tree at night, a biocrude-from-algae demo, some independent films, etc. Some of the scientists will be hanging in our theme camp, the Clean Green Machine, where they will talk with anyone who bothers to seek out our outer-ring location.


When Dr. Megavolt shows up on top of a trailer, with lightning bolts coming out of him every which way, I always say, Damn, now that's a guy who understands electricity. But if General Electric showed up with a carbon copy of Megavolts act, I'd say, Damn, here's another line item PR expenditure by General Electric.

Of course these green tech companies will have some cool stuff on display. THEY ARE COMPANIES, that's what they do. But don't tell me that won't be writing this off come tax season. I don't know how Megavolt writes off his display.

melo wrote:No PP slides, no logos, just a bunch of brains who have dedicated their lives to renewable energy. None of them have gotten rich yet but I certainly hope they will.


Kinda says it all, doesn't it?
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Postby Bob » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:47 pm

The article simply reflects the corporate-speak I've been hearing from staff & the LLC over the last five to seven years. Why is this such a huge surprise to people still buying tickets & funding the org? If that's what they've chosen to do to remain solvent, and if Larry choses to theme his Man-base installation around 22nd Century Hippie-Tech, why bitch & moan? They still let you people do theme camps, after all.
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Postby EB » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:07 pm

Wha? Maybe you should re-read the article.

This article is about leveraging Burning Man's ethos (community, volunteerism, radical self-reliance, non-commidification) with corporations hungry for that label of "Burning Man-Approved."

I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the theme camps.
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Postby Bob » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:52 pm

Bullshit. In eight years of doing DPW I didn't have a fucking ethos. That's for people in the SF office, the press, and you, apparently.
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Postby Teo del Fuego » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:15 pm

Bob wrote:They still let you people do theme camps, after all.


"YOU People?" Elitist. Oh, I forgot, you're DPW and You Built This City (tm) for all us who have to pay to get in. right?
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Postby EB » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:30 pm

Bob wrote:Bullshit. In eight years of doing DPW I didn't have a fucking ethos. That's for people in the SF office, the press, and you, apparently.


I'm sorry, Bob, I forgot this was all about you.

Please continue angry, muttering digression.
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Postby Bob » Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:46 pm

So sorry. Wouldn't want to assume anyone who still goes to Burning Man is capable of catching irony.
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Postby melo » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:53 pm

[quote] We just don't want a schism in our cool camping trip.

Love that phrase and I hear you.

Maybe feeding the spirit of rebellion is the point. That's certainly needed in the world now more than ever. You got rebellion, you get schisms.

Anyway, I wish I'd spent more time making something beautiful than reading this thread. Signing off.
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Postby LeChatNoir » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:30 pm

melo wrote: Anyway, I wish I'd spent more time making something beautiful than reading this thread. Signing off.


That's too bad, melo. You could have really dug into the meat of these things here. I was looking forward to hearing what you had to say.
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Postby Saturnine0 » Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:54 pm

Now, I'm a virgin so maybe I just don't know.... but so what if this year a few companies may demo some product, big deal, they can't logo, brand it, or sell it. Can you imagine the many entertaining ways that the "artistic aesthetic" on any branding will be improved? Hehe. It will be entertaining. I also don't imagine that any corporation thinks that they're going to come out to the playa and sell anywhere near enough units(assuming free reign to sell) to make the trip profitable, which kinda rules out the big corps... Anyone that does come out is there to show us something useful or cool.. both things I'd like to see.
The green theme does go hand in hand with a lot of the marketing right now... But what about when the theme is something weird next year? I don't see any sane company wanting to get in on the past themes.
Even if the corp presence doesn't suck this year do you really think it'll be back next year when the theme is primates?
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Postby FabFascist » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:41 am

Saturnine0 wrote:The green theme does go hand in hand with a lot of the marketing right now... But what about when the theme is something weird next year?
Even if the corp presence doesn't suck this year do you really think it'll be back next year when the theme is primates?
Have fun


This, in fact, might be the very thing that causes people's blood to run cold... A simple question that desperately needs to be answered:

Was this years theme decided upon before or after it was decided to do a corporate pavilion? :?:

IF/THEN processes:

IF it was decided after the corporate pavillion idea, THEN it means that the theme was chose to attract the companies they new would take the bait. Shrewd business sense - but it leaves many with a very bad taste in their mouths.

IF it was decided before the corporate pavillion idea, THEN what happens if they make mad money and decide to mold next year's theme to attract more companies?

When I first heard the theme this year I was pretty happy. I thought about the symbolism of the Green Man, the bond with nature, and just had a pretty positive vibe. Then I read about the corporate pavillion and while it pisses me off, it won't keep me from the event (life has done that already this year!!!)

I think the three points that need to be addressed:
1. If there are cororate pavillions in the future, how much impact will that have on the selection of any given years theme?

2. Does "radical self-reliance" only apply to the population and not the LLC?

3. Can we see, specifically where the corporate money goes on the year-end budget they post on-line? If they can post sources of income so the citizens of BRC can see how the money from the pavillion is used then some fears may be put to rest. (I'd like to see salaries of the executive committee, also, but that might be asking too much..)

Those are the three things that gnaw at my gut..

I think a good theme for next year would be - "Back to Basics"

The man on the ground... go minimalist on everything... have the city laid out, emergency services.. no center camp... and let the population fill the city with wonder.... Just a thought..
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Postby karine » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:59 am

I do know one thing.. and that's the "Green Man" Theme was decided by Larry while at Last Year's event.

At least, that's when he was all excited about having already picked one - but I wasn't informed what it WAS or anything, just told that I would "LOVE it".

Secondly, the team that thought up the pavillion was MUCH later.

Here's how I see it:
Theme decided
brainstorming
brainstorming
committeees consulting committees & consulting members
brainstorming
pavillion idea
brainstorming
more committees & planning and scrutiny
brainstomring
brainstorming
planning
brainstorming
brainstorming

...
So if you have constructive ideas, try to add to the brainstorming stages-

OR help us all fill the city with cool shit
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Postby FabFascist » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:02 am

Cool - satisfies my curiosity.

Now we will wait and see if it satisfies the more conspiracy minded...
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Postby Fat SAM » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:41 am

I think it's safe to say that next year's theme isn't going to be primates or donkey-fucking. Why is it so improbable that it will be something that easily swings the door open for more corporate presence? I maintain my position that corporations don't undertake actions that don't make them money.

I like Fab Fascist's idea. There's a similar idea on the boycott free labor thread.
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Postby Token » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:53 pm

Karine makes a good point. We may be just crying over spilled milk at this point. Lets hope they didn't spill any whiskey.

I was actually quite upset when the theme was announced. I found it much more disturbing that BM took a stance on a political issue and actually made it the theme. BORG has done a good job of being completely a-political over the years. I find this to be the big departure. Everything else is just aftermath.

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Postby FabFascist » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:57 pm

Token wrote:"Who run Bartertown"?


Umm... Death Guild?
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Postby melo » Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:58 pm

[quote="LeChatNoir"][quote="melo"] Anyway, I wish I'd spent more time making something beautiful than reading this thread. Signing off.[/quote]

That's too bad, melo. You could have really dug into the meat of these things here. I was looking forward to hearing what you had to say.[/quote]

LeChat: My inclination to bow out stems simply from the fact that many feel I don't belong in this conversation, not being a deeply experienced Burner and/or community member. That's valid: The core of the conversation is about a chunk of the community's fear and disappointment about the radical step BMorg has taken.

Also, while Tom warned me there'd be blowback, I didn't realize how un-fun it would be to be in the middle.

The conversation I was trying to have is about how it's possible to blend career with personal life and values: no front, no back. The sincere (if difficult) attempt to function with integrity in gray areas can be very rewarding on many levels, can enable right livelihood for dozens of people and might even help a tiny bit to make the world a better place. I mentioned my Zen background not to establish credibility with you all (impossible) but because that's the context in which I came to the realization that purity isn't good enough. I worked hard for that insight and I think it is a useful and relevant gift to offer.

But all of that, as has been pointed out, is beside the point of this conversation thread. I certainly don't know where Burning Man is going. I imagine it will go to wherever the people who make the most effort take it.

I'm more than a little overwhelmed with the commitments I've made to take these scientist and entrepreneur virgins to the Playa and I deeply hope they aren't insulted for their efforts. Maybe the only way to avoid vilification is to hide under pseudonyms. Is that somehow superior to being honest about who we are and what work we do? Maybe I should try a new life motto: proud to lurk.

To EB: No, it won't be tax deductible for us any more than it is for you. BM is a corporate LLC. I'm not charging for the vast amount of my time this is gobbling up because this is not a defensible marketing strategy, just a fantastic adventure that I've talked some of them into. As Farhad/FarOut perceptively pointed out, this is an extremely untargeted demographic. Extremely. As for taking stuff home, we were hoping to give you all ideas and inspiration in fair exchange for the ideas and inspiration we hope to gain. But our enthusiasm may be slipping a bit.

To MikeVDS: Remember that some guy fucking a chimpanzee is what started the AIDS epidemic. Now there's a hero. Have fun. Use protection.
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Postby Bob » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:29 pm

melo wrote:Remember that some guy fucking a chimpanzee is what started the AIDS epidemic.


Now, that's more like the level of scientific acumen we expect at Burning Man! Welcome Home!
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Hello Melo

Postby farhad667 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:21 pm

[quote]Also, while Tom warned me there'd be blowback, I didn't realize how un-fun it would be to be in the middle.[/quote]

umm???? say what???

Melo, you work for The Antenna Group (For anyone catching on late, that's the PR company hired by BM to sell this new "opportunity" to the BM community and to companies who may want to peddle their wares in an ROI positive manner.)

That means you are being PAID to do this... so stop trying to sell this thread on some other angle that predominates (like your buddism, or life-balance or BM attendance),and stop incinuating that you may actually drop out of this "conversation" and not do your job, which is to spin the debate into your client's best interests...

After all, one glance at your company website (http://antennagroup.com/approach/services.html) shows how The Antenna Group strives to help clients set up "Positioning," and I quote: "... We examine your customer profile, the pain and opportunity you face in the marketplace, your market segment definition, key value propositions, competition and competitive advantages."

It doesn't say "then we nag to your customers about the 'pain' points and fuck off into the abyss..." So DEAL WITH IT (as we have to deal with you) and stop whining!!!

BTW: While we're on the URL, here is what your website says about how you help with "Trade Shows." which, afterall, is what we all fear this might become... and again I quote: "We... ...tap into the grapevine for word on which are successful and which may be struggling; study media pre-registration lists and media coverage of events as barometers; and attend prestigious conferences ourselves to network with media and conference organizers."

So, thanks for tapping in. The grapvine ain't too happy. And thanks for attending our "conference"... you can tell your boss that we are pretty fucking concerned about the "positioning" he has chosen and the path he may be putting us on... (Not that I think destroying our current BM would be a bad thing, if it lead to smaller regional burns, as I noted in my previous post).

Anyway, all this said, I want to end on a positive note by saying that we all have jobs, and yours is a tough one in this instance, especially with this opinionated an audience. So, I appreciate your "pain"... However, my suggestion is to just keep doing your job as honestly as you can and shut up about the rest of the crap... (was that positive? :)

Also: If you think it's bad here, wait 'til you get to the real playa... ;)

Finally, it would be nice (honest) if your sig read: "Melody Haller, President, The Antenna Group, a PR company retained by BM to sell this new concept to companies and to burners just like YOU!)... So that every time you post, anyone who reads can clearly know from whence your opinion comes.

much love!

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Postby MikeVDS » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:29 pm

I'm more than a little overwhelmed with the commitments I've made to take these scientist and entrepreneur virgins to the Playa and I deeply hope they aren't insulted for their efforts.


You don't know much about BM, do ya? "Insult" is a very mild word. This is not rainbowfest. I smell war a brewin'.
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Postby Fat SAM » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:07 pm

DaBomb wrote:
Fat SAM wrote:Marion makes it quite clear in the article to whom Burning Man belongs...


A direct quote from Maid Marian:

"Burning Man is more than just an event in the desert. We are all members of a greater community. It takes a great deal of work and collective coordination to bring Burning Man to fruition each year. Your role as artist, theme camp creator, pre-event or onsite volunteer, ranger or musician is critical to creating a safe, expressive and commerce-free community."


That sure strikes me as different from the attitude presented in the article.
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Postby trilobyte » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:44 pm

DaBomb wrote:2) Burning Man is theirs (the LLC), mine and ours.


Actually, I think Burning Man is as much yours as DisneyLand or the McDonald's brand name is. In other words, it's not yours at all. We're all regular/loyal customers, and that's largely it. Your ticket purchase, and your love for the event (or the ideas behind it) do not entitle you to any real say in the company.

That said, I've got mixed feelings.

On one hand, it is a good and potentially noble idea. But on the other, bringing in corporate sponsors without disclosing it in advance of tickets going on sale (but after raising ticket prices) just seems very inappropriate.

I feel that 2007 is already shaping up to be an incredible year, and there will be some amazing and innovative uses of clean and renewable energy/materials. Bringing in corporate partners seems an unnecessary step, and using the environment as a tool to set the precedent seems a sneaky way to go about doing it. Ultimately, I suppose we'll see what happens at the end of August.

~Trilo~
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Postby trilobyte » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:48 pm

I don't really understand how your choice in religion affects this discussion, Melo. Or are you one of those people who treats people differently based upon their faith?

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Postby MoisturePup » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:52 pm

itwazed wrote:Ive been waiting for a "donkey fucking" theme for years..Im so in...



Who's to say that the citizens of BRC can't choose the theme? I think "Donkey Fucking" is a great idea. Let's all agree that "Donkey Fucking" is the official theme of the Citizens of Black Rock City for 2007. Start spreading the words my friends, all those companies are put up their hard earned technologies so that we can have our best ever Burning Man theme: DONKEY FUCKING!!!
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Re: CO2 sins

Postby MoisturePup » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:57 pm

melo wrote:
And, yes, you guessed it, I'm Melody Haller from Antenna Group. We got into all this because Burning Man asked us to help get the cleantech community interested, not because it serves our best interest.

Anyway, see you on the Playa. If you're not interested in the whole cleantech thing, don't bother to visit the pavilion. The playa is a big place. There's room for everybody to have the Burning Man they want to have.


Melo it's AWESOME that you guys are going to be powering Burning Man 2007: Donkey Fucking!
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Postby MikeVDS » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:22 pm

Donkey fucking is a great one, but there is already a bit of a movement for an alternate theme of Monkeys (possibly including all primates). So in order to keep continuity among the rebels I suggest the donkey fucking theme should be somewhere along the line of monkey fucking donkey. Perhaps to drive the point home, they should be smoking and fucking on top of a pile of burning tires and kicking over a vat of toxic waste. Oh the imagery.
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