Seems like there were a lot of pedophiles this year

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Seems like there were a lot of pedophiles this year

Postby LarryHarveysHat » Sun Sep 28, 2003 9:37 am

I came across at least 3 people who were trying to take photographs of naked, underage girls this year. I guess all you people will try to justify it and explain it away, but personally I think it's a big problem for Burning Man.
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Postby Kinetic » Sun Sep 28, 2003 11:42 am

A lot of pedophiles? In a city the size of BRC your going to start finding there are pedophiles and other crazies around...this is one of the curses that comes with rapid growth.

So...you saw three people trying or taking pictures of underage children. Did you speak up and do anything about it? Or did you sit back and just be a spectator?

If you chose the latter, you are just as much a part of the problem as the SOB that was trying to take the pictures. And if you spoke up, thank you for doing something about what is obviously WRONG!

I took my 15 year old sister to BM this year. I let her have total freedom, and set her loose on the playa. I warned her that things like this could happen and she chose to stay clothed. But I also told her that she had the right to say no to anyone taking pictures of her, especially close up pictures or ones that might be compromising. And while it might be wrong, if she would have been naked and someone was taking her picture....if she told them to stop and they refused, she had full permission to take out or disable the camera, or if necessary take them out...the idea being to make them as uncomfortable as possible with the minimal amount of force needed to get the point across. She is essentially a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and I advised her under those conditions or if she was physically threatened to take the bastard out, and the camera too.

For the younger kids that's not an option. There are some that say kids shouldn't be at BRC. There are some that feel it's the best thing that ever happened to their kids...I fall into this last group. In any event, the kids are there. We are a community and while no one should babysit another's kids, why not keep an eye open for this sort of thing as well as the camp raiders, thieves on burn night and other problems? The rangers can't do it, the LEO's can't do it...we can police ourselves and address this and the other community annoyances with ease. If the perverts know that the kids will be watched, that people are aware that the thieves are lurking, it might cut down on this.

And if I saw someone taking pictures of underage kids, I have no problem with confronting them. If they are a parent and the kids actions seem ok, that's one thing. But if the kid was to freak...I'm going to make a good mental note of who the person was and grab a Ranger.

And heaven forbid if I saw anything beyond pictures....especially with the very younger set that was hardcore sexual abuse. You wouldn't call a Ranger, you'd call for REMSA and a helo from Reno!
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Postby clandyone » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:17 pm

DNFTT
Won't somebody please think of the children?!
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Postby BurningShadow » Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:19 pm

0.o
damn....good job on your sister being a black belt but I'd try to get her to learn hapkido and or kung fu sansoo for the rougher fights and kempo/kendo.
^_^
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r4ntz0rz

Postby Lothar » Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:53 pm

It's legal to take photos of whatever you want from public land. Therefore if you are on the streets of BRC you are fair game-- regardless of age. If you have a problem with people looking, taking video and/or pictures, don't go naked. If you have a problem with people doing the same to your kids, don't let your kids go naked. It's that simple.

Our society baffles me. We spend so much time trying to both hide and flaunt sexuality. So they are naked... is an underage nude inherently sexual? I mean, what about nudes in paintings? Tasteful Photography? What about art?

But this is America. Here, every man is a potential pedophile/rapist and all females are only there to be plundered. While this view seems to be the accepted paranoid norm-- it troubles me. We are so fast to villify the man with the camera. Next time you cross the street so as not to walk past that man on the empty street, thnk about this. Perhaps the world is safer than the 6 o' clock news wants you to think it is. Perhaps he has only good intentions. Perhaps fear isn't always in your best interest.
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Re: r4ntz0rz

Postby PetsUntilEaten » Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:03 pm

Lothar wrote:It's legal to take photos of whatever you want from public land. Therefore if you are on the streets of BRC you are fair game-- regardless of age. If you have a problem with people looking, taking video and/or pictures, don't go naked.


Does this mean we get TWO trolls in ONE thread?

I love a good troll (ask anyone!) - but just in case your IQ is only as large as your number of posts - you are hugely mistaken. I do hope you do more reading before you join us next year!

cheers -

pets.

ps - ( sorry, guys, i couldn't help it! )
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Postby Lothar » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:02 pm

FLAME ON! Rather than just going about this as you did, why not show me some sources or inform me how I'm wrong? That way a discussion can take place.

It was my understanding that photos from public lands were legal. The exception to this rule being the anti-paparazzi legislature that has recently passed through the courts that pretty much classifies them as stalkers. Or are you suggesting then that any underage nudes are illegal as child pornography? I would be highly surprised if documentary photos of naked people wandering the streets in the most naked place on earth(tm) would be considered porn. Then again the courts have made wackier decisions.

So, pets... would you be so kind as to elaborate, or are just here to insult me?
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Postby PetsUntilEaten » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:40 pm

insult you?

well - you make it easy & fun! all the big pronoucements & all - about the law. mmm - extra troll-y.

I'm surprised you haven't read up on the still & video camera etiquette - since you seem to have been to the playa before, its all over the boards & on the website. You were talking about the law for public space. burningman is a private event. burningman owns the rights to the images - they grant permission for images to be used. there are "rules" & ocassionally signed agreements that accompany media photography. photographing nudity is a particular sore point for burners. burningman sued voyeur video for selling videos of nude women showering, dancing, biking in BRC. Most media outlets including CNN & MTV have not challenged the standard BMorg "please quit it" letter - Voyeur did. They sited silly public law - they lost. Rude people with video cameras & still cameras nearly get their asses beat each year. That makes me happy.

The reason it's hard to stay cheery while answering this - is that its been addressed here a hundred times - but since we can't access the old eplaya - we can't reference the reams of old threads that detail this. i know its not your fault - but I also suspect you are being troll-y since this info is so easily available - so maybe you know this already?

Not to mention the obvious troll puppet that started the thread is addressing exactly this well-known problem. Kinetic & yourself are reacting to an obvious troll - and I don't blame you - its an old-y but a goody - hey even i joined in when i thought that there was a guy who went to burningman & took lots of pictures thinking that he had a right to create his own porn - cause its the law of the land.

we are all such suckers. ok just me - oh and kinetic.

i really wish we could channel the old playa so we can stop retyping stuff.

wait - i could just stop typing! - DAMN!

sorry.
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Postby Kinetic » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:46 pm

BurnWithin wrote:0.o
damn....good job on your sister being a black belt but I'd try to get her to learn hapkido and or kung fu sansoo for the rougher fights and kempo/kendo.
^_^
just some lil tid bits of thought


One of our instructors was a member of the Korean Tigers or the South Korean TKD olympic team...and he also knew Hapkido...which I agree is very effective. She knows enough to be dangerous but not enough to be officially qualified in it.

And I didn't expect to stir things up with my post...the thread is getting very interesting and touching on some good points.
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Postby Lothar » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:22 pm

Didn't catch the info 'till now. Hm, if BRC is private property, brings to mind a whole new slew interesting issues with the fuzz.
As for the voyeurs... selling such tapes feels icky when taken from the giving-based burn. I hope the judge sentenced them to a videotaped kinky flogging and then uploaded the tape to Kazaa.

Now gimme a hug and let's play nice :)

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Postby Steven bradford » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:58 pm

BRC is a private, ticketed, event, on public lands. That's the difference. BMORG is paying for rental of the land. There is no more "right" to pictures on public land in this instance than say someone has a right to take unauthourised pictures at a wedding party that has rented a public park facility. For example.
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Postby Eric » Tue Sep 30, 2003 7:56 pm

There is no more "right" to pictures on public land in this instance than say someone has a right to take unauthourised pictures at a wedding party that has rented a public park facility.


There is actually less of a right to take pictures at Burning Man than most other public spaces (If you look into it, there are a lot of grey areas in public photography)

Burning Man is a ticketed event within a restricted space in a public area- to enter Black Rock City you have _explicitly_ agreed to the rules of BMorg, regardless if you've actually read them or not. The BMorg has very strict rules on photography- as the photographer for Piss Clear, I had to sign a 5 page agreement/ contract on the use of ALL photographs I took within the confines of BRC. Even as a non-media photographer, there are stipulations on the use of your camera (see: http://www.burningman.com/press/pressRandR.html)

I know this was started by a troll and probably answered on the old ePlaya, but hell, it never hurts to get it out there for all us newbies.
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Postby Guest » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:34 pm

So, has BMORG said what it intends to do about Burning Man's pedophile program?

P.S. I'm not the same person as LarryHarveysHat. I think we're just kindred spirits.
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Postby actiongrl » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:02 pm

Ask not what Burning Man can do for you. Do you have a plan for what you perceive to be a problem? A suggestion? Or just a troll? What do you want, another rule? Or for the event to end because you think this is a problem?
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Postby Lydia Love » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:34 pm

P.S. I'm not the same person as LarryHarveysHat.


*cough* bullshit *cough*
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Postby SED » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:40 pm

actiongrl wrote:Ask not what Burning Man can do for you. Do you have a plan for what you perceive to be a problem? A suggestion? Or just a troll? What do you want, another rule? Or for the event to end because you think this is a problem?


If you see anything that you know to be wrong, you are in the wrong if you don't take action. If I saw anyone trying to photograph others in the nude without their permission, I would interrupt the photographer and alert the subject. If the subject was a child, I would look for that child's guardian, and alert him or her. If there was no guardian nearby, I would alert the Rangers.

If I had a camera, I would photograph the offender and give a copy to the first Ranger or LEO in sight.
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Postby Ivy » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:30 am

If I had a camera, I would photograph the offender and give a copy to the first Ranger or LEO in sight.


Would you ask their permission first before taking their picture?
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Postby SED » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:20 am

Nope.
It ain't the hanging, it's the drop.
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Postby stuart » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:02 pm

<snort>
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Postby BurningManRocks » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:14 am

I don't think the people you saw were really pedophiles. I think they were just taking tasteful nude pictures of young beauty.
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Images of BM

Postby scruffyboy » Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:20 pm

[color=red][/color][size=18][/size] I've been going to BM since 1996 and I have ALWAYS made it my own personal policy to ASK before taking anyone's picture, AND asking permission from the parent/gaurdian of anyone seemingly underage.
The results have usually been far better than any "candid" shots I could have gotten.
I reserve the "Candid" shots for clothed people doing interesting things, shots of the crowd at the burn, shots from a distance that do not readily identify a person (no nudes though!) I don't go around looking for naked people to photograph without their knowledge or consent.
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Postby III » Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:36 pm

>> my own personal policy to ASK before taking anyone's picture

&&

>>reserve the "Candid" shots for clothed people

clothed people are people too. please ask them as well.
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Troll Feeding

Postby Otisserie » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:41 am

For God's sake, when are we going to stop feeding the LarryHarveysHat/WillSmallPenisRoger/etc/etc troll?

After this success I expect him to post the following topics in quick succession:
    - Why does BM allow pagan child molesters free reign on the playa?
    - When will Larry Harvey put a stop to all those Vikings raping and pillaging at BM?
    - Larry Harvey still has green-stained knees from the grassy knoll!
    - Is the new theme "Vault of Heaven" a deliberate open invitation to the aliens to continue their unwelcome anal probing? I can barely sit down long enough to write this; haven't I had enough?

It's time to let this idiot wallow in well-deserved obscurity.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Oh, I'm just waiting for him to accuse the rest of us of being one giant mega troll.
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Postby Badger » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:58 pm

Can't figure why this thread wasn't locked out like the rest of the putrid shit that WWTP spammed us with.
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Postby alienfry » Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:26 pm

i saw the cuuutest little boy the other year and i asked his dad if i could ask his son if i could take a picture and the little shit said no.

so i didn't.

.

if i ever saw a child being victimized on or off the playa, that bastard would get a beating. and if s/he were bigger than me, i'd at least make a scene and yell for help.

it takes a village to raise a child. a village, or a city erected temporarily, annually, in the middle of the desert.

i WISH my mom would let me take my kid sister. she'll be 11 in 2 weeks.
awesome oppossum
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Postby DVD Burner » Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:36 pm

Do you think this thread should be locked or deleted?

seems like a trouble thread to me.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:51 pm

Doesn't admin need a complaint to lock a thread? Or can the just do it to whatever hits thier (collective) eye before they're adequately coffee'd up?
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Re: Seems like there were a lot of pedophiles this year

Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Sun May 23, 2004 8:26 pm

LarryHarveysHat wrote:I came across at least 3 people who were trying to take photographs of naked, underage girls this year. I guess all you people will try to justify it and explain it away, but personally I think it's a big problem for Burning Man.


Being a photographer, you might say that they're pedos or you might think that there is something more beautiful that a sexual connoctation to photographing children like capturing the innocent and beauty of youth!

Maybe you need to open up and regain some other viewpoints of life. It is people like you is one of the reason many good and honest photographers have had to spend money on lawyers and courts defending themselves even when the models have been their own children!

Now tell me something about yourself and your childhood?

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Postby Badger » Mon May 24, 2004 10:33 am

Jesus fuck, why did you even dredge this topic up?
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