What ever it once had, it no longer has...

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.

Postby TestesInSac » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:05 am

JP / Chimp wrote:Dragonfly?


Where didja get a cool name like that you absolute fucking square?

"Hold on tight to me baby / it's such a long way down"

- Saint Low, 'Long way down'


Stuff a banger in it, you hippie noob, Dragonfly has a point. Even if what it once had has been replaced by something better (a dubious proposition), evolution itself guarantees change, which means loss even in the face of any gain.

Absolute fucking square, my ass.
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Postby Booker » Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:46 am

Absolute fucking square, my ass.


You probably didn't want me to laugh at that, Cas, but the image of you walkin' around with this cubical backside was too much for me. Um, sorry.
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Postby TestesInSac » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:07 am

Booker wrote:
Absolute fucking square, my ass.


You probably didn't want me to laugh at that, Cas, but the image of you walkin' around with this cubical backside was too much for me. Um, sorry.


Not at all, it was quite the intent, actually. I was trying to balance the "moonie" poke with a bit of humor.
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Postby Zane5100 » Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:00 pm

casnimot wrote:I was trying to balance the "moonie" poke with a bit of humor.


You? Humor?

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Postby Tiara » Mon Sep 15, 2003 1:51 pm

For the record, I believe the DJ an earlier poster mentioned goes by Drag'nFly. She often plays at events and venues around the SF/Bay Area. See http://www.djdragnfly.com/

I would be very surprised to find she is the same as the Dragonfly that posted earlier in this thread.
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Postby Grinder » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:40 pm

This was my 6th year and my first post on any board. I appreciate dragonfly starting the discourse but i wish more people would accept the changes at burning man and make their own decisions without the complaining. Last year I had a bad time and didnt' expect to return. I ran into lots of 'frat boys" and spectators, had drama in my camp and got hurt (broke a rib). I could just not accept that something that embodied so much freedom and fun for me could be that bad. So I returned this year and had my best burn ever. Did I encounter negativity? yes. But one of the biggest lessons I learned this year is that BRC is one of the only places I've ever encountered where when you do encounter negativity you can walk away and avoid getting sucked in. I had a girl complain to me that the wristbands I was wearing were "not in the burningman spirit because I bought them" I suppose if i wasn't wearing them someone would have complained that I wasn't dressed up enough (though I did hit some new highs in playa fashion!).
One last point on the friendliness and generosity of the theme camps and the event. I started a bar 4 years ago because a few friends and I felt we had to give something back. We gave all of our booze away and never bartered, though this was before the official "gifting" started. Our first year we changed peoples lives and our own and made close friends forever. We grew. We worked hard and spent a lot of money in the next few years. This year we raised nearly all of the money and had hundreds of people help us - not to mention the thousands who enjoyed themselves at our bar (and successfully convinced Pinky to do it again).
Burning man is getting bigger. That could mean more instances of negativety or it could also result in more love, evolvment and hope for mankind. I love having the freedom to make choices and I love Burning Man and the friends and family I've met there. I and I love my wife Lushious and all of the visions I see of her riding on the playa. Unka Unka
Last edited by Grinder on Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grinder » Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:35 pm

:shock:
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Postby glam_daddy » Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:44 pm

yes burning man has changed

yes there are some people who dont seem to 'fit in'

yes there seems to be more people each year

yes the tickets grow to be more costly

and with ALL OF THAT burning man is STILL the best thing going. Nothing else comes close to it.

*group hug*
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Postby nymphgonebad » Mon Sep 15, 2003 4:16 pm

heyglam_daddy - thanks for the free porn!
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Postby Chimp » Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:58 am

Casnimot

Exactly what realm are you supposed to be a self ordained knight of pal?

Dragonfly it seems, doesn't drink or do drugs, or involve herself in anyway in BM, neither does she enjoy any of the experience one iota. She must be an eminently sensible person.

I stand by my statement

'Absolute Fucking Square' - with knobs on

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Postby Rob the Wop » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:37 am

JP / Chimp wrote:Exactly what realm are you supposed to be a self ordained knight of pal?

Dragonfly it seems, doesn't drink or do drugs, or involve herself in anyway in BM, neither does she enjoy any of the experience one iota.


Ssooooo, unless you drink and do drugs- you aren't cool enough to be part of Burning Man? She already mentioned that she participated.

Just out of curiousity, when was your first year and what major theme camp/art installation was your idea?

<i>Chewing on you a bit, I'll admit- but not anywhere near the amount I usually do. I'm just getting that "more Burner than thou" vibe from your last post. Didn't you know it was just a camping trip?</i>
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Postby Chimp » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:10 am

Have you read her post man?

I'm sorry I don't think its that offensive, if she wants to respond I am sure she will.

You don't have to go to a desert to know how to BURN brother, yeah, I have only been a coupla times but believe me I know how to set my head on fire with or without 'drugs' wherever the fuck I am - I am only suggesting that she doesn't, Burning Man or no Burning Man.

Wow, everyone gets a bee up their arse about someone (who obviously hates the event and slagged off practically everyone involved) being called a square huh?

How uptight is that?
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Re: to dragonfly

Postby Last Real Burner » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:15 am

OH YEAH! FEELING THE LOVE, BABY...

dragonflyannie wrote:This year I had my first art installation as well as compiled a 100 page book that contained burner musings and imagery from over 50 burners... I self published it and gifted it to many people on the playa this year.


Hi D' Fly Annie,

Sounds like you had a blast and recouped much love. How did the book turn out? Have you put it on the net yet? if so where's the link...:wink:

"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. "
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"Do you know what happened to the boy who got everything he wished for? - He lived happily ever after".
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Postby TestesInSac » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:09 am

JP / Chimp wrote:Casnimot

Exactly what realm are you supposed to be a self ordained knight of pal?

Dragonfly it seems, doesn't drink or do drugs, or involve herself in anyway in BM, neither does she enjoy any of the experience one iota. She must be an eminently sensible person.

I stand by my statement

'Absolute Fucking Square' - with knobs on

H.Noob


Well, maybe you're not a hippie, <i>per se</i>, just a blissful, lefter-than-thou substance savant who's happened into a look that all find cool/hot/warm/all temperature Chimp.

I'm a self-ordained knight in the Order of Those Who Build, and only the self-ordained belong in that order. You might even be able to divine why, if your mind isn't too muddled with your snorted/drank/inhaled/injected/whatever sense of cool, or not too busy lionizing chain-smoking Stetson wearers.

So let me clue you into the Tao of Square. Square is good. Houses are built on square. Domes are built using values squared (a bit of uncool, square math humor). Engineering is square (and sober!), and it's the only thing that lets your socialist arse board a jet and make it here alive (assuming your pilot is square and sober!).

I, for one, spent the last year building things for BM2k3, both at home and at the Horsecow, in Sacramento. I enjoyed doing those projects, and I enjoyed the reaction they got on the playa. I hope to build more things with those guys, as soon as I get over my reaction to the Knights of Ueber-Kuhl. But, it's official, it was my last year. Time for me and my square ilk to move aside and let the Ueber-Kuhl take it to the next level.

As a parting gift, let me introduce you to the Tao of Tard.
*Re-tard: everyone knows this one.
*E-tard: a DPW/Ranger reference to dehydrated re-tards that land in REMSA due to overuse of E.
*Half-tard: a cross between a half-wit and re-tard.
*Fuck-tard: a cross between a fuck-wit and a re-tard <b>(that's you!)</b>
*Bas-tard: <b>That's me!</b>

Squarely,
<b>I. M. Gone</b>
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Postby blyslv » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:55 am

casnimot wrote:[ Engineering is square (and sober!),


WE hang out in different cirlces. Cas,I hope you're planning on coming back.
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Postby Rob the Wop » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:05 am

casnimot wrote:You might even be able to divine why, if your mind isn't too muddled with your snorted/drank/inhaled/injected/whatever sense of cool, or not too busy lionizing chain-smoking Stetson wearers.

Knights of Ueber-Kuhl.


Yup. Nerdboy me and my uncool artist beauty call them the "Uber-Hipsters". They are the ones in the latest fad, or the eurotrash black outfits, smoking funky smokes and drinking martinis. They approach us when we're doing events.
<i>"Wow, that's cool what you're doing. Good job."</i>
"Thanks. Well dive in and start doing <i>X</i>, the more the merrier."
<i>"Oh jeez. I could never wear/act/do/build/try/etc something like that. What would the other artsy hipsters think."</i>
"So, you're active in the art scene."
<i>"Oh yah. I go to all the cool galleries and parties. Matter of fact, I attended the poerty reading where X read his/her work."</i>
"And your work is...?"
<i>"I used to do X in college. I haven't had the time recently to work on my art."
or alternately, they you show something like a hard boiled egg with a tampon stuck to it called- "The Defiant Nihilist's View of Contemporary Socialist Practices Ushered in by the Digital Age". Or some such other pretentious bullshit that took all of 5 minutes work.</i>
"<sigh>"
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Postby precipitate » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:56 am

> i wish more people would accept the changes at burning man and make
> their own decisions without the complaining.

And I wish more people would rail, rail against the dying of the light
instead of saying, "Oh well. Never mind." Voicing dissent and expressing
what you don't like is the first step to doing something about it. If it stops
there, fine, you're just a complainer. But hopefully it gets you going and
makes you actually fucking do something about it.

> one of the only places I've ever encountered where when you do
> encounter negativity you can walk away and avoid getting sucked in.

Huh. If I encounter negativity, I have a number of choices:

1. Embrace it. Not all negativity is bad.
2. Change it. Not all negativity is good.
3. Walk away. Not all negativity is worth the effort to change.

I have these choices no matter where I am.
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Postby Eric » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:49 pm

And I wish more people would rail, rail against the dying of the light
instead of saying, "Oh well. Never mind." Voicing dissent and expressing
what you don't like is the first step to doing something about it. If it stops
there, fine, you're just a complainer. But hopefully it gets you going and
makes you actually fucking do something about it.


I think I love you.

Huh. If I encounter negativity, I have a number of choices:

1. Embrace it. Not all negativity is bad.
2. Change it. Not all negativity is good.
3. Walk away. Not all negativity is worth the effort to change.


If not love, can I just like you a whole lot?
You said extremely well what I tried to say earlier, but much more clumsily.
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Postby Kinetic » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:41 pm

casnimot wrote:
JP / Chimp wrote:Casnimot

Exactly what realm are you supposed to be a self ordained knight of pal?

Dragonfly it seems, doesn't drink or do drugs, or involve herself in anyway in BM, neither does she enjoy any of the experience one iota. She must be an eminently sensible person.

I stand by my statement

'Absolute Fucking Square' - with knobs on

H.Noob


Well, maybe you're not a hippie, <i>per se</i>, just a blissful, lefter-than-thou substance savant who's happened into a look that all find cool/hot/warm/all temperature Chimp.

I'm a self-ordained knight in the Order of Those Who Build, and only the self-ordained belong in that order. You might even be able to divine why, if your mind isn't too muddled with your snorted/drank/inhaled/injected/whatever sense of cool, or not too busy lionizing chain-smoking Stetson wearers.

So let me clue you into the Tao of Square. Square is good. Houses are built on square. Domes are built using values squared (a bit of uncool, square math humor). Engineering is square (and sober!), and it's the only thing that lets your socialist arse board a jet and make it here alive (assuming your pilot is square and sober!).

I, for one, spent the last year building things for BM2k3, both at home and at the Horsecow, in Sacramento. I enjoyed doing those projects, and I enjoyed the reaction they got on the playa. I hope to build more things with those guys, as soon as I get over my reaction to the Knights of Ueber-Kuhl. But, it's official, it was my last year. Time for me and my square ilk to move aside and let the Ueber-Kuhl take it to the next level.

As a parting gift, let me introduce you to the Tao of Tard.
*Re-tard: everyone knows this one.
*E-tard: a DPW/Ranger reference to dehydrated re-tards that land in REMSA due to overuse of E.
*Half-tard: a cross between a half-wit and re-tard.
*Fuck-tard: a cross between a fuck-wit and a re-tard <b>(that's you!)</b>
*Bas-tard: <b>That's me!</b>

Squarely,
<b>I. M. Gone</b>


I didn't have an art car or build stuff on the playa. I did take a landscape flatbed trailer and hand made a box type shell on it with steel reinforcement and other enhancements so Dragontear would have a safe and comfy place to crash while enjoying her first BM. So I'm claiming that I am also a Knight in the Order of those that Build, and while I struggled with the Tao of Square, I got it done. I also re-learned the High Art of Welding, both gas and MIG which I had not done for 15 years. Anyone can use a MIG, to weld with the flame takes skill.

It's all the more impressive considering my amnesia / memory loss / virtual death sentence I had from the doctors in June, 2001. I should't be here. I shouldn't be able to do much of anything. They were wrong. So I'll take my position now, thank you!
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Postby Chimp » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:44 am

Cas, I would suggest that your'e 'I'm so square I did this and that, what did you do' argument is a bunch of crap - Just for the record last year we spent seven hours building our inclusive shade structure, we had a DJ, made meals for guests (Smoked Salmon and other such tasty shit),

Also this year though I didn't do nearly as much I worked in Playa Info for about five hours and did at least one stint lamplighting (it is heavy carrying those lamps in that heat isn't it all you other cats that did that) and I think I touched a few souls with gifts of classical poetry (thats pretty square of me no?)

We didn't get our shade structure up this year because yes, we were all way too fried - like, sorry

So...

In my opinion not only are you , as you have gladly admitted a 'fucking square' (and yeah I am left wing enough to think refering to people as retards IS FUCKING RETARDED - I have been involved with my bro in Disabiltiy Arts Festivals in London before, and a lot of my friends help so called 'retarded' people do really cool shit, ya ass-wipe)

On the whole pal, I will slip into the London vernacular here I'm afraid

You are showing all the tell - tale signs of being what we call a CUNT old bean, not, in fact, a bastard

So I shall continue to be uber cool (yeah right you uptight chump) and smoke french cigarettes or whatever else it is you wish to project on me

Byeee
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Postby sugarlarry » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:08 pm

I dunno. I've been coming since '98, and this was my favourite burn ever. I totally disagree that it's now just a big dance party. There is way more art then ever before so far as I can tell, and for the first time ever I finally didn't feel obligated to just hang out at the rave camps at night.

As for the general vibe... I've always found it hit or miss. Depends upon who you are talking to, and what sort of mood they are in. I was in a great mood half the time, and miserable the other half, and I expect this holds true for lots of people.

BM has changed to be sure. I don't know if it's better or worse, but for all it's worth it is attracting thousands of people who want something different in their lives. That's actually pretty cool. I don't know where it's going, but hey... it'll be a hell of a toboggan ride.
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Postby ramen » Wed Sep 17, 2003 7:52 pm

Wow! Couldn't have said it better. Half misery, half ecstasy.

Makes me want to go again! Faith restored, hyah!
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Postby Flux » Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:13 pm

I tell people that Burning Man is like real life, only more so. If you're thinking you're going to go out there and be happy the whole time, you might want to see about letting go of that expectation. I have the same kinds of highs and lows on the playa that I do in the rest of my life, only magnified. Everything is more intense on the playa, at least for me, and I relish that; too much of the time, for whatever reasons, the full impact of things doesn't reach me.

This year, I had some serious depression at one point. As time passed, however, that depression was transformed into a major realization about myself and my mental programming. As a result of that insight, I have felt (and acted) freer in certain ways than I probably have in my entire life. Same depressive mindfuck I've been running in my head for 30+ years, but something about being at Burning Man allowed me to open up and see the truth behind it, and after two weeks I can safely report that it has changed my life.

I don't know whether Burning Man still has whatever it once had, but it's still working for me, and ultimately that's all I can go on.

Not all lows, of course, turn out that way. Now that I think of it, I'm not even sure how I got off on that tangent. Still, it's a pretty cool thing and I'd like to share it, so there you go.
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Postby Kinetic » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:01 pm

I remember hearing about BM's effect on emotions as it amplifies the highs and the lows. But this was the first year I experienced it for myself...last year was just shock and awe so it doesn't count. The lows were rough...but the highs have me planning for 04 already.
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Postby Qt » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:05 am

I don't like everything I encounter on the Playa ... but I like that I can encounter everything on the Playa. For me, it's not about what is there ... it's the fact that almost anything *can* be there. It's freedom ... freedom to be a drunken fratboy spectator or a self-righteous hippie artist or something else wonderful in that vast area of gray.

I could swear I read something to the effect of "You can die at Burning Man" on the back of my ticket ... and I certainly didn't come expecting that I was being provided a safe environment. Burning Man is as safe as I make it for myself. My stuff is as safe as I make it for myself. If I take a risk, I own either the reward *or* the consequence. I, and only I, am responsible for me.

Burning Man is an expense. It's a not-inexpensive vacation. But, whatever I spend on Burning Man is what it's worth to me to spend on Burning Man. I work, I save, I put in the amount of effort that it's worth to me to put in to go. If it gets to a point where it's not worth it to me to do what it takes to afford to go, then I own that decision ... not the person who set the ticket prices.

I don't want to spend a week in the desert, fighting climate and circumstance, just to hang out with 30,000 people who are just like me. I enjoy meeting people who I'm thankful I'm not, and I enjoy meeting people who I might almost wish I was. Most of all, I enjoy meeting people who are being exactly who they really are. I hate rap, but if I had the chance to meet and talk to a "good" rapper I'd be there in a second.

I get from Burning Man exactly what I put into it ... when I don't get what I expect, I try putting in something different. If I want to change the outcome, I change what I contribute. If I want a different experience altogether, I change my approach entirely.

In 2001, I camped with a well-organized, decent-sized theme camp. I had a blast.

In 2002, I didn't go to the event at all ... but instead spent the week trying to bring my "Burning Man" mindset to my "Non-Burning Man" world. I had a blast.

In 2003, I spent very little time with the people I camped with and a lot of time exploring the Playa on my own - meeting new people. Some changed my life, and others just made me change direction. I had a blast.

In 2004, I think I'll go for an extra-large theme camp experience ... I'm sure I'll have a blast.

As for all of you ... the only thing I want *you* to do is exactly what you *want* to do. Go. Don't Go. Go and bitch about going. Don't go and bitch about not going. Whatever it is, I'll be sure to smile at you and be thankful that you are you.

If I'm not stopping to see the magic in even the things I *hate* about Burning Man - to be objective and accepting, for just a moment ... to see that there are other points of views than my own - then something about *me* has changed. That's when I'll stop going.

I really hope that day never comes.
Be good to you,

Qt ("Cute")

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it no longer has...

Postby Stormy » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:44 am

drive by shooting galleries.
Be the change you seek in the world.
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