The Bar, Volume #4

All things outside of Burning Man.

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:53 am

but Elliot, genuine Sparkleponies accept blame quite easily

so what do you think of my buying a new lovely little yellow tent
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:57 am

Well, "adorable" and "lovely" are not qualities I would look for in desert camping gear. :mrgreen:
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:00 am

I do appreciate quality of all sorts
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ^Rhino! » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:58 am

aserendipity wrote:Good Morning Dear ones !

Sisters and Andy , Figgy and Yggy,
Grai, who knows what a Rhino could quaff

and they are asking for decompression plans before I have even mustered the monies to get the adorable little yellow tent I saw at REI
totally silly but then...

enjoy today all
xoA.


**snickers**

"Who knows wat a Rhino could quaff?"

This year, a lot of water, coffee, and flavored water drinks. Some even might be carbonated. I found this drink company which produces a brand called "ICE" that is dark red and has the taste of black raspberries. This stuff comes in 12 oz bottles, cases of 12. I plan on at least two or three cases for my personal enjoyment. I don't know if it has the potential as a good mix, but I'll have my normal supply of Vitamin T (tequila) to see.
Rue Morgue - '08, '09
Black Rock Beacon - '10, '12, '13, '14
(lux, veritas, lardum)
Bacon is forever.

Veni, vidi, pertudi. (We came, we saw, we DRILLED.) - BRC Division of Geology 2009-2014

I'm here until the serendipitous synchronicity is ubiquitous.
User avatar
^Rhino!
 
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:42 pm
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Black Rock Beacon

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:07 am

*darts back inside to reply -- being busy with a tarp or something outside*

Ah, now yer talking! I am so tired of shoddy quality.
Decades ago my brother and I were in a store to purchase some lawn chairs. He went straight for the most expensive ones. I questioned the cost. My brother just smiled.
Well, those chairs lasted 30 years -- I had to give up on the last one just a couple of years ago. Now, that was a bargain!

*dashes back out to the barn*
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby graidawg » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:06 am

ya' no Elliot, i do agree with you .... 30 years ago. these days though cost does not affect quality so much, too many people pay for that logo on the fabric or whatever. Me personally i find the only way to ensure quality is too make it yourself - or get someone i know and trust to do it for me if i don't know how.Fortunately i do no a hell of a lot of people who are really good at making stuff
:)
FREE THE SHERPAS
Burners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.
CATCH AND RELEASE.
User avatar
graidawg
 
Posts: 3090
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:50 am
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Dread Pirate barbie

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:34 am

Right. A high purchase price does not guarantee good quality -- specially if the item carries a fashionable brand name. You might be paying more for the little alligator on the shirt than for the shirt itself. But when we manage to find good quality, it is often worth the price tag, compared with buying the Walmart-grade Chinese knock-off.

A decade ago I was given a fleece pullover at work (with company logo). These shirts were given out to customers, so they were the best quality available. This shirt proved almost indestructible. I finally wore holes in the sleeves, but it never pilled or otherwise deteriorated. So I grabbed a replacement at Walmart -- maybe ten bucks. Looks just like the old one; maybe a little softer. It pills and sheds like crazy. I walked around looking like a musk ox in springtime. Not worth even ten bucks.
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:44 am

Oh yes , quality is commendable . Elliott when (and if) my firstborn son completes working on refurbishing my bike you'll see .
Rhino , I knew you were a fine one . Once you can stare into the eye of any matter it is important to drink well as well.

Am I the only genuine Sparkleponie here willing to commit to a yellow tent ?
Well, if I do buy it you may all check out the positive effect.

Musk Ox in Springtime may be a lightning rod.
xoA.
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:23 pm

Back in my tech industry days, I was consulting with most of the big computer manufacturers as well as several indie firms on computer system designs. Invariably the big names would 'cheap out' on various internal components that the customer wouldn't likely see or ever care about, so that they could hit their almighty price point and still make maximum profits. They were gambling that those components would withstand what they felt was normal use during the warranty period, and figured as long as it didn't fail under warranty they were home free. I don't miss working with people like that one bit.

The problem isn't that everything is just made poorly, it's that people blindly equate higher cost with higher quality. Maybe they're just too lazy to look for quality, maybe they just wouldn't know good quality if it jumped up and bit them on the ass.

@aserendipity, they've been asking for submissions and participation for decom for a few weeks now, that thing takes a while to prepare. For returning camps and installations it's easier to sort out plans, because they've already got an idea of the infrastructure needed to support what they want to bring and setup times, so may as well throw the hat in the ring early. We participated one year, signing up after we got back from the playa (and felt confident enough we could bring and build it in a few hours), the special events team was able to make that work for us.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13053
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ^Rhino! » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:56 pm

"The problem isn't that everything is just made poorly, it's that people blindly equate higher cost with higher quality. Maybe they're just too lazy to look for quality, maybe they just wouldn't know good quality if it jumped up and bit them on the ass. "

Trilo, some quality is damn near indestructible. Take the case of a recently started 100 year old end table that I decided to restore.

Disassembly took less than an hour. I had to sand off three layers of old paint to reveal......birdseye maple grain. Maple is tough. It looks better with a light brown stain, so I stained it after sanding it down to a 600 grit finish. Then I got out the turpentine and beeswax. That and a lot of elbow grease put a mirror finish on it. Reassembly with the same old nails, straightened in a vise, and then a quick dust-off with Pledge.

Old end table - free

stain, sandpaper, turpentine and beeswax - $25, and add six hours labor.

Finished product - I've been offered $300.00 for this antique beauty.

Satisfaction element - priceless.

The problem overall is that people aren't PROUD of the work they do, CAREFUL of the work they do, and they don't take responsibility for themselves and their own actions. They're tired of being screwed by a nameless faceless corporate entity that they don't understand. Allow them a safe work environment, decent pay, the tools they need, a management that they know by first name and the chance at achieving satisfaction and you have all the elements of creating success.

And that's the name of that tune.
Rue Morgue - '08, '09
Black Rock Beacon - '10, '12, '13, '14
(lux, veritas, lardum)
Bacon is forever.

Veni, vidi, pertudi. (We came, we saw, we DRILLED.) - BRC Division of Geology 2009-2014

I'm here until the serendipitous synchronicity is ubiquitous.
User avatar
^Rhino!
 
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:42 pm
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Black Rock Beacon

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby graidawg » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:07 pm

^Rhino! wrote:"The problem isn't that everything is just made poorly, it's that people blindly equate higher cost with higher quality. Maybe they're just too lazy to look for quality, maybe they just wouldn't know good quality if it jumped up and bit them on the ass. "

Trilo, some quality is damn near indestructible. Take the case of a recently started 100 year old end table that I decided to restore.

Disassembly took less than an hour. I had to sand off three layers of old paint to reveal......birdseye maple grain. Maple is tough. It looks better with a light brown stain, so I stained it after sanding it down to a 600 grit finish. Then I got out the turpentine and beeswax. That and a lot of elbow grease put a mirror finish on it. Reassembly with the same old nails, straightened in a vise, and then a quick dust-off with Pledge.

Old end table - free

stain, sandpaper, turpentine and beeswax - $25, and add six hours labor.

Finished product - I've been offered $300.00 for this antique beauty.

Satisfaction element - priceless.

O just want to see this in print again.

The problem overall is that people aren't PROUD of the work they do, CAREFUL of the work they do, and they don't take responsibility for themselves and their own actions. They're tired of being screwed by a nameless faceless corporate entity that they don't understand. Allow them a safe work environment, decent pay, the tools they need, a management that they know by first name and the chance at achieving satisfaction and you have all the elements of creating success.

And that's the name of that tune.
FREE THE SHERPAS
Burners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.
CATCH AND RELEASE.
User avatar
graidawg
 
Posts: 3090
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:50 am
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Dread Pirate barbie

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:12 pm

^Rhino! wrote:And that's the name of that tune.

Amen. (And I'm not even religious.)
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:11 pm

Did I say something about quality being destructible? I don't recall having done so, but it's been a long day. Sure, many aren't proud or careful, but not all are that way. There are still lots of good, great, and fucking amazing quality things being made out there, by either individuals or operations that do care. It's not easy for most, the consumer mentality is "cheap cheap cheap" and fixation on deals (many threads on these boards focus on price over quality), and in a land where the customer prioritizes low price and 'good enough' over 'great' then you'll see a lot of suppliers, makers, and builders rushing to fill that demand. But in anything I've had the resources (time, money) to shop around for quality, I've been able to find quality makers of things.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13053
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:26 pm

I see it as a problem of how the distribution of wealth is being skewed. 30 years ago I was solid middle class, even as "just" an auto mechanic, and I could buy any lawn chair I wanted. Now I'm "working poor", and I cannot afford to buy better than a Walmart lawn chair. That is, if I want a lawn chair to sit in this weekend, I must disregard that the chair will be junk by next year. With so many of us in this situation, it is no wonder the purveyors of shoddy goods rule the marketplace.
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Dr. Pyro » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:58 pm

Any of you knuckleheads ever do the Ragbrai? Maybe I'll do that next year instead of TTITD.
User avatar
Dr. Pyro
 
Posts: 3960
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:11 am
Location: Newcastle, CA
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:00 pm

Elliot wrote:
^Rhino! wrote:And that's the name of that tune.

Amen. (And I'm not even religious.)

right there with ya.
my tombstones will last thousands of years, I gotta do it right!
or the best I can. I always hope they are one in the same.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27269
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:43 pm

Deep is good

my addiction is to well used quality
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:30 pm

My dream automobile is a vintage Bentley.
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby trilobyte » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:59 am

"Sir, let me tell you, you can't afford NOT to buy this top of the line fuckingwhatever lawn chair. When you look at the price, think about the lasting quality and the total cost of ownership. By the time you'll need to replace this chair, you'll have replaced those cheap chairs a dozen or more times. Sure, they cost half as much, but when you think about it in the long term, this fuckingwhatever lawn chair is a bargain!" :mrgreen:

Good on ya, Yggy! I'm all for the environment and leaving no trace and stuff, but part of me wishes we built a few more permanent things. I've been watching loads of historical documentaries lately, and while sure we build them taller and shinier, not a one will last. And not because it's bad quality, some of the modern stuff is downright breathtaking. It's just only ever intended to last a few decades, or maybe a century or two.

Of course, that being said, here I am spending another night working on my discount ziggurat (stonework was out of the budget). :D Sucker's going to be all kinds of beautiful, but modular and impermanent.

I don't do Ragbrai, Doc. You might want to check with TG about that one - I think it passes through her town, I seem to recall her talking about it last year.

In the meantime, I'm done painting for the night and off to make another drink. Huzzah!
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 13053
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby graidawg » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:49 am

found some premade vodka and vicious chemicals.



goodnight
FREE THE SHERPAS
Burners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.
CATCH AND RELEASE.
User avatar
graidawg
 
Posts: 3090
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:50 am
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Dread Pirate barbie

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:05 am

*wanders in, makes CCC*

yeah speaking of high cost/durable: I love old diesel Mercedes cars.
Those things, back in 60's to about mid 80's, were made to last.......yeah super expensive. But, I've bought a couple, 30 years old, from original owners. run, work, and look perfect, still. 300,000 is not any surprise with them, and many will make 500K.
The one I just sold, only had 240K (IIRC), got 28-30 mpg, and is a huge, safe car. It's an 86.
So, yeah, it does exist.

It's sort of interesting to think about my tombstone work, in that it could still be readable, long after humans vanish! Granite being a super durable material, and without direct abrasion, erosion is almost non existent, especially with it being polished, and being free floating, heat/cool stresses are minimal on pieces so small (relative to naturally occurring formations).
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27269
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:42 am

as a practical man, i do not hesitate to spend what would seem like a ridiculous sum to many on my boots.


a ditchdigger should always have a fine shovel, a driver, good tires.


more often than not, you do get what you pay for, however, this notion is indeed becoming a thing of the past.


something that is made well, and made to last does not necessarily make a good business model in todays disposable economy.


if i can, i find old things, that were made with pride, often by hand, and almost always with a sense of VALUE....


what good is an Item that only costs a dollar if it's intrinsic value is basically nothing.
fuck you, it's magic


NO SLEEP TIL GERLACH

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 15562
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby aserendipity » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:46 am

love hearing you men talk...

Elliot I loved my hunter green Rover till she died

xoA.
aserendipity
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby unjonharley » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:47 am

Words from my great uncle Dan

You should always have the best.. A bed and shoes. You will spend the rest of your life in one or the other..
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 10007
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:52 am

foogit!! lets drink!

Image
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27269
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Simon of the Playa » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:54 am

Worth 5$ a Bottle !!
Image
fuck you, it's magic


NO SLEEP TIL GERLACH

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 15562
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ygmir » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:00 am

Image
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27269
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby ^Rhino! » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:33 am

ygmir wrote:
Elliot wrote:
^Rhino! wrote:And that's the name of that tune.

Amen. (And I'm not even religious.)

right there with ya.
my tombstones will last thousands of years, I gotta do it right!
or the best I can. I always hope they are one in the same.


I suggest Missouri Red (granite from near Farmington, Missouri), Rock of Ages' Barre Granite (Vermont), or Elberton Granite out of Georgia as the thousand-year zero weathering tombstones.

We put a block of Missouri Red through a 300-cycle freeze thaw test here. It laughed at us. So, we tried a Universal Testing Machine to try to look at the shear strength indirectly with an unconfined compression test. It broke the machine. At that point, we forgot about anything but a diamond saw to determine its durability.
Rue Morgue - '08, '09
Black Rock Beacon - '10, '12, '13, '14
(lux, veritas, lardum)
Bacon is forever.

Veni, vidi, pertudi. (We came, we saw, we DRILLED.) - BRC Division of Geology 2009-2014

I'm here until the serendipitous synchronicity is ubiquitous.
User avatar
^Rhino!
 
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:42 pm
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Black Rock Beacon

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby Elliot » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:47 am

*Ygmir jumps in his biggest truck and heads for Missouri* :wink:

Say... I'm leaving later today for a Kinetic race in Corvallis, Oregon. There will be opportunities both Saturday and Sunday to watch me make a royal fool of myself -- as usual. Google daVinci Days for details.
Elliot's Naked Bicycle Service & Piano Bar - a 2015 BRC Theme Camp

http://www.elliotsbikes.org

---------------Bike come unglued? Take it to the nude dude!---------------


Image
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 6330
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle Service

Re: The Bar, Volume #4

Postby AntiM » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:07 am

Wheelmen?
Some sunshine, some dust, a little paint and a tutu. Yeah.
User avatar
AntiM
Moderator
 
Posts: 17632
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:23 am
Location: Wild, Wild West
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Anti M's Home for Wayward Art

PreviousNext

Return to Open Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 4 guests