Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together?

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Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together?

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:51 pm

my 17th year.
no one keeps the faith like I do.
When people complain, & stand up for reality.
When people say "It's not the same", I say "then take some responsibility and make it was it was"

But this refusal to allow camps to work together is NOT WORKING! As a responsible burner, I follow the rules, and more than most, I understand the reasoning behind them. But as always, we are all in a mess right now, & I just don't know how I can possibly pull this off if we aren't allowed to make a community out of this community.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Captain » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:58 pm

Can you give more specifics about what you mean? I was unaware of any restrictions about working together.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby pizzamancer » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:59 pm

Make a village.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Captain wrote:Can you give more specifics about what you mean? I was unaware of any restrictions about working together.



+1


Spill it.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:05 pm

I appreciate your question- I am lacking front end labor, & did have people who were interested in coming in early and helping us set up, though they are in a different camp- their own camp won't be arriving for days, so these people would be 'with us' until then. I have had to tell them NO. Despite the fact that I desperately need them. I also just lost 2 early in people- essential, & I was told I can't use that as an incentive to join us- not a bribe, an incentive- only if you are joining our camp. I don't see why this is wrong, although I am following the letter of the law...I have put too much of my life into this to be derailed by breaking rules, even if I don't think they make any sense. Thanks for caring enough to inquire!
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:07 pm

guess a village is the only way to go at this point...but we're loud & proud esplanade...do they do esplanade villages?
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Bob » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:09 pm

You've been going 17 years? Since it was basically just an extended weekend? What's the problem again?
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:11 pm

alexamonkey wrote:I appreciate your question- I am lacking front end labor, & did have people who were interested in coming in early and helping us set up, though they are in a different camp- their own camp won't be arriving for days, so these people would be 'with us' until then. I have had to tell them NO. Despite the fact that I desperately need them. I also just lost 2 early in people- essential, & I was told I can't use that as an incentive to join us- not a bribe, an incentive- only if you are joining our camp. I don't see why this is wrong, although I am following the letter of the law...I have put too much of my life into this to be derailed by breaking rules, even if I don't think they make any sense. Thanks for caring enough to inquire!



Ok.. so specifically, I read this that you're disappointed that you couldn't secure more EA passes?

If so, then.. think about it. Think about the abuse of that system and how many people would want and try to get EA passes. You know those things are a hot commodity. This isn't so much of "outlawing camps to work together" as it is drawing a line with distribution of EA passes.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:13 pm

Quite the opposite. I was given all that I needed, & just lost people what were supposed to fill them. Just trying to be responsible, my man...to BM, to my campmates, to my own honorability.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby mrchiff » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:15 pm

Wait, who said no, the other camp? What rule or law are we talking about breaking here?
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:15 pm

I have already asked my placer what I am supposed to do if I can't fill these...integrity incarnate right here.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:18 pm

I posted on eplaya looking for some replacements, offered early in for work crew, & was told I can't use that as an incentive. I was also given a strict warning to to give any early ins to anyone not in our camp, even if they ARE in our camp during the early in time. I know what the organization is trying to prevent, & I respect that, it's sort of like "the law' in general...it is a hard line, meant to protect people from certain things, & I get that, but it also doesn't have any room for reasonability. no wut I mean?
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:36 pm

It's the organization, not any other camp, who is having an issue. May I be so bold as to say, again, the administration has gotten too far away from the burner...they need burner blood in the admin. (I'm a professional event planner, looking for a job... hint hint...jk, sort of). I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, & I will comply will all the rules- but I urge some of the rules to be re-thought...
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby thisisthatwhichis » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Yea, your mistake may have been your integrity incarnate.

There aren't any names or IDs needed for EA, they tried that, and it failed miserably. I don't see in problem in what you are trying to do, but the "cat is outta the bag", so to speak, now.

I guess too many stupid camps abused it by handing out extra EAs to the masses and now they are a little sensitive.........

I hope you find your help.......
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:43 pm

yeah, u get it... thanks, & I understand all of it... I know how people have abused this in the past... what I really need to do is get on the ball about all of this 'rules' stuff....my first year, rules didn't exist...I have done my best to keep up with the times, but- for christ's sake, there was a drive-by shooting range my first year! I am an event planner, I know, I get it, I am doing my best, & u r right, that god damn integrity gets in my way more than you know! (double libra, what am I supposed to do?)
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby thisisthatwhichis » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:54 pm

Try arguing that there is no "Arctica", "Center Camp", "Artery", etc theme camp area, yet they all have EA folks helping to build their infrastucture. You have a couple of people who can help you set up (and have tkts), but will be helping more than one theme camp set up.

I know it wouldn't be the first time volunteers helped set up more than one camp....... Or the last.


Hopefully your placer isn't in a bad mood......... :D
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby thisisthatwhichis » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:02 pm

Also, add that you may have trouble opening by Monday (if that's the case).

I know the ORG hates it when Esplanade camps are only half built on opening day.......
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby BBadger » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:03 pm

It really comes down to the expectation that the number of EE passes available to you should be the limiting factor, not your ability to secure enough people to build the camp. A case of the latter implies that camp operator overestimated (overpromised, padded, etc.) the EE ticket requests and that resources (placement, tickets, etc.) were poorly allocated.

Still, everybody does pad their requests. A danger in penalizing with a "use it or reduce it" policy is that it may discourage honest camp operators from informing placement that they couldn't use all their passes, lest that amount be reduced in subsequent years, or the placement positioning reduced.

So I dunno, I guess yours is just an extraordinary problem that should not occur.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Eric » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:04 pm

alexamonkey wrote:what I really need to do is get on the ball about all of this 'rules' stuff....my first year, rules didn't exist...I have done my best to keep up with the times, but- for christ's sake, there was a drive-by shooting range my first year!


That was in '96. Most people didn't have cell phones then either, and got online with 33k modems, and would be reading this as a "newsgroup" (alt.burning.man). To complain that the rules have changed since then is like complaining that Hootie & the Blowfish haven't released any good songs ever in a while...

It's not like these "rules" dropped on your head out of the blue, with no warning. They've been growing incrementally over the years, and if you're unable to keep up with the changes maybe you should pass the baton in the camp. It's not like they're rocket science.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:07 pm

BBadger wrote:Still, everybody does pad their requests. A danger in penalizing with a "use it or reduce it" policy is that it may discourage honest camp operators from informing placement that they couldn't use all their passes, lest that amount be reduced in subsequent years, or the placement positioning reduced.

With the bar codes, placement probably knows how many passes any particular camp used last year.
And if people do pad their requests, it's because they expect to get a certain percentage moved off the top, so they are compensating... Isn't it?
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:18 pm

we are responsible. period. we had enough, people are flaking left and right. just trying to to the right thing, like the movie says.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:21 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
BBadger wrote:Still, everybody does pad their requests. A danger in penalizing with a "use it or reduce it" policy is that it may discourage honest camp operators from informing placement that they couldn't use all their passes, lest that amount be reduced in subsequent years, or the placement positioning reduced.

With the bar codes, placement probably knows how many passes any particular camp used last year.
And if people do pad their requests, it's because they expect to get a certain percentage moved off the top, so they are compensating... Isn't it?


I had enough dropouts, they had 'life' interfere (personally, I have threatened to quit jobs if they don't give me the 11 months advance notice for time off) Want to do the right thing.... help me do the right thing.... please!
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:27 pm

I have no secrets from placement, & don't intend to...I want permission to do what I need to make things work for my camp... again, I'll work on that. & as for the comment about our placer's mood: I couldn't love the guy more- he is dealing with what he has to as am I, he can even yell at me & I won't take it personally! (i'M GOOD LIKE THAT)
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:29 pm

i know we did not pad requests.

i also know we had to bring in people monday (electric and lighting) because we didnt have enough.

we have 5 trucks to unload...scaffolding...speakers beyond your wildest fucking nightmares, and god knows what else....dome guys...food guy....tipi guys....holy fucking shit.

i know this, its not easy, and i do feel for ms. monkey.

i also know that bitchin' at the ORG in a public forum prolly wont work so well, and it's best to personalize the issue and try to contact your placer and talk to them.

anyway..my two cents, good luck, if we get any stray volunteers on monday as we are oft to do, if you pm me your address i'll try to send some able bodies over to you.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:32 pm

lemme know if you want hunka hunka man flesh or hott Grrrrrls. :twisted:
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby alexamonkey » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:42 pm

PS- I know the amount of time I've spent at BM is not "an accomplishement"- I was lucky enough to have a friend shove me in a car, tell me to give her $200, get in the car, we were going to an art festival in the desert, in 1996. I don't think I'm special for my time spent, I do think I'm responsible. Over the years, many people have invited me to be a part of the admin, & I have been too busy running a theme camp on the esplanade. I am as much a part of this event as anyone, & I have a STRICT policy at my camp of non-elitism. I don't care how many years anyone has come,it is about responsibility is the point, and I am responsible. I find (what I find too often in the admin) is attitude of elitism to be for insecure assholes. Just cause I was lucky enough to have been brought to BRC a long ass time ago does not make me special. The fact that I am still here makes me responsible. I am not too cool for school, DESPISE that attitude!
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Trishntek » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:54 pm

If I understand correctly, the problem is YOUR people and nothing to do with BMorg. If you cannot find sufficient numbers to commit to early access, how are you gonna run the camp after gate opens?

As-far-as who is camping where after the gates open, EAP's are for the people essential to building your camp. Gate isn't going to scrutinize the validity of the person with the pass, that is up to the camp lead to determine who is vital to build the camp.

Not to disrespect you or what you are doing, but it sounds like you need to take charge and stop running to the org with personnel problems.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:12 pm

i wasnt kidding about my offer alexa.

i'll try to help you out with some spare muscle.

maybe if everybody calms down and tries to solve this stone soup style, you might get somewhere.

as stated, i'll toss u a couple grunts on monday when more people arrive, anybody else wanna assist?

thats about the best i can do for you right now, hope it helps.
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Trishntek » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:39 pm

It would be pure luxury to farm out some "muscle" on Monday. There's no padding in our EAP's and hopefully we will be up and running Monday. But I cannot say with any confidence we will have extra hands available by then.

The name and location of your camp might help to plan for the possibility!
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Re: Why is it being outlawed to allow camps to work together

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:51 pm

Just a Thought...


if you slip adderall into the kombucha and promise them some kind nug-nugs when they're done, you'd be surprised how fast hippies can do shit...


just sayin'...
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